Post Game analysis thread

[BuckWoody]

[quote name='RoyT' date='Aug 13 2005, 04:43 PM']What I noticed last night compared to last years game against the pats was a team taking it a lot easier IMO. Last year it seemed like we was playing that game like it was a reg season game as far as player intensity went. Last night the players (vets mostly) seemed to be just in practice mode which I think is just another one of MLs plans to rest the players more in pre-season and let them bring it on opening day and getting that elusive fast start happening...
[right][post="130335"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

I agree. One thing that I took away from last night was that is seemed more like a practice game than most of the pre-season games in the past. What I mean is that in the horrible past, it meant something to this organization and to us fans to win a game…any game…even one that didn’t count. Last night it seemed like winning the game wasn’t the number one thing on the agenda. The coaches wanted to see certain personnel in certain situations in order to evaluate and establish coaching points for the remainder of camp. I thought I heard Lapham say that there we 20 or so guys who didn’t suit up or play at all.

[Guest steggyD]

Perry is awesome. Loved his spin move, and all those other moves he has. Wow!

Thurman, wow, love that jump. Too bad he missed that QB that ran over most of our team. WTF was that. But I still loved Thurman's jump, was crazy.

Many, many near picks. Get our secondary to practice catching balls, and we would have run away with that game.

Rudi, well, he's Rudi.

Palmer, if he would have had some more time, I'm sure more would've happened. Those 2 passes to CJ in double coverage, 1 interception, they seemed to be forced, but from the tv replay, I think he was told to do that second one.

Bramlett is better than Krenzel, but of course I've said that before.

Henry, get him catching those balls and he's gonna be awesome. He's at least open enough to throw him the ball, which is good news. Maybe NFL game jitters.

And I'll finish by saying, wow, Perry was awesome.

[b]Who-Dey!!![/b]

Can't wait for the regular season.

[Jason]

Like everyone else, I thought Perry looked good.

#42, Anthony Mitchell missed a LOT of tackles. He looked just plain BAD.

Odell played well overall, but I wish he had stayed on his feet instead of jumping. Although, I might put him on the FG block team.

Krenzel had 2 bad throws, but he did move the team down the field, and I thought he got the TD that wasn't called. Add that to the missed FG (that Shayne would have made) and that game goes to OT.

I thought the 1st string D-line looked good overall. And the 1st team O-line looked great!

[VonBlade]

The two things that stand out for me in this thread is how much of a motor everyone thinks Odell has, and how sick Perry looked with his jukes.

Negatives? Considering how often teams get stopped, a punter who can, you know, [b]punt[/b] would be fucking useful. You'd think after all these bad seasons we'd at least have a guy who could do the one thing his job entails lol.

And I am worried about this whole fast start thing. You can't just turn it on when the spotlight shines. You are either good, or not good.
VB

[The Scales]

Larson punted well last season, maybe an off night...?

And Von Simmer down now...Staff was just looking at different things. We were as Vanilla as Jason last night.... Mixing up players, getting looks, Testing, you know the regular pre-season thing.

THIS TEAM IS GOING TO THE PLAYOFFS!!

[KennyAnderson]

I agree with esjbh2 about Chad. Although Carson underthrew both passes, I felt (being the non-athlete that I am) that it was Chad's responsibility to slow down and get the passes (he had some amazing catches like that last year). In fact, on the first long throw, I thought that if Chad had slowed down, he would've forced the New England defender into an interference.

Perry looked good (and I was worried he was going to be another KiJana).

Carson looked average, but I felt at least two of his incompletions were not his fault.

OMG! Thank goodness we've got Rudi locked down for some time. He's looking sharp.

While the two first teams were playing against each other, I thought we looked superior.

The next two games will be more telling about Cincy's future this year than this first or the last pre-season games.

WhoDey from Port Orange, FL

p.s. thank you Digital Jesus for DirectTV so that I am able to see the light of the Bengals' games.

[cwing]

[quote name='BuckWoody' date='Aug 13 2005, 07:34 PM']One thing that I took away from last night was that is seemed more like a practice game than most of the pre-season games in the past.  What I mean is that in the horrible past, it meant something to this organization and to us fans to win a game…any game…even one that didn’t count.  Last night it seemed like winning the game wasn’t the number one thing on the agenda.  The coaches wanted to see certain personnel in certain situations in order to evaluate and establish coaching points for the remainder of camp.  I thought I heard Lapham say that there we 20 or so guys who didn’t suit up or play at all.
[right][post="130361"][/post][/right][/quote]

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is why I did not attend last night's game-----preseason games are -----well crap and do not warrent personnel days!!!! You guys that traveled hours to get there deserve a . I understand cuz I'm a fan but I guess I'm spooled as I have been going to games since before I could walk. (Father is/was an orginial season ticket holder.

During preseason you can go 0-4 and start off 8-0 or you can go 4-0 and start off 0-8.

For the starters, preseason is about;
1) Don't get hurt.
2) Timing
3) Conditioning
4) Don't get hurt.

For the scrubs;
1) Demo skills for all NFL teams.

Preseason games are practice games despite the NFL trying to trick us by calling them "preseason". The 3rd game is the only that has merit as the starters will play into the 3rd quarter to prepare them for the season.

At any rate--------preseason is and will always be about evaluating talent and finalizing rosters, nothing more, nothing less.

After watching today;
Running game will be our offensive signature. Rudi/Perry Does this mean Perry takes Watson's spot and Wilson gets the nod as he is a power runner or will Watson's ST's play win out over Wilson's power running?

O-line barring injury, should be

Palmer & Wide outs, showed lack of game speed adjustment. Training camp speed will not get it done in preseason. Preseason speed will not get it done in Reg season and Reg season speed will not get it done in playoffs. Cj, Tj, Ch are in, Henry will be a star in 1-2 seasons when Cj wants too much cash and is told to take a hike. Will P-Dub or Kw make it? How about T Perry vs Russell? Biggest roster fight on the team is at WRer.

TE's, please catch the ball.

DB's good, need better tackling and safeties need to step up.

Lber's ? L. Johnson's shoulder? Pollack contract? Thurman/Pollack rookie mistakes? Webster's knee?

DL, again the question for the season. Must stop the run to win. L Moore looks very good but he was going against 2nd teamers.

[Guest #22]

Also:
Bryan Robinson running down RBs is sweet.

[|Lucid|]

Ok... After watching the game for a second time (thinking of making it a 3rd tonight) from my DVR I have some observations...


[b]Defensive Line[/b]

Trying to find the patriots pocket in the 1st qrtr was like playing where's waldo.. Our defensive line seems vastly improved. The first time I watched the game I was thinking, "Wow, Daveys really sucks". But after re-watching it, it was really a combination of that and excellent pressure and coverage down field. Bryan Robinson is definitely an upgrade at RDT, and Thornton is more in his element on the left.. Justin Smith dominated on the left side, and Jumpy Jr. did nothing but enforce my opinion that he will be a beast.. He lost containment a couple times against the run on the perimeter, but all in all an excellent outing for the new guy.

Langston Moore had a good outing, and is looking to be a solid backup.

[b]Line Backers[/b]

Again, a definite upgrade over last year. I am a big Webster fan, but to be honest, Odell looks like he is going to be amazing. He was out of position in coverage a lot, and seemed to mis-read a bit, but over all, his speed and tenacity are awesome. This guy will be special.

Landon Johnson was his regular tenacious self... He needs to be on the field because he knows how to play, but I would prefer to see him on the right side in a year or 2 when he replaces Simmons. All in all, he did his job. We don't need to worry about Pollack..

Simmons was Simmons.

[b]DB's[/b]

Our 1st string secondary looked good, and I was especially impressed with Ratliff. He continues to grow into a starter.

We really missed Madieu.. Our safeties were the softest part of our starting D.

Brandon Williams started shaky, but he seemed to make up for it later in the game. I have to agree that he faces stiff competition.. But this guy will end up on someones roster, even if it just PS.. He seems to have good upside.

Reggie Myles seemed to do a decent job at the SS position, but I didn't see enough of him to form a real opinion.

[b]Offensive Line[/b]

Our starting Offensive line (-Anderson) was just plain awesome. No need to run down the performance of future pro-bowlers Steinbach and Jones...

Andrews looked VERY promising.. He is definitely an amazing athlete, with outstanding balance and agility for a man of his size.. I would go so far as to call him freak. Once he gets his footwork and fundamentals down, he should be a good OT. The refs seemed to be taking it easy on him or something because I saw a good bit of holding infractions, but I saw the patriots line doing the same thing, so it seemed like universal slackness on the holding calls.

Larry Moore might make a decent back up guard, but I don't want to see him line up at Center. Over all, I wasn't impressed with him.

I Don't have an opinion on Ghiaciuc, but that's probably a good thing.. Didn't see anything bad.


[b]Running Backs[/b]

I won't go much into Chris Perry, since he seems to be what most people have already commented on. He looked great and I am excited about him.. But he needs to keep his balance a little better, and keep his feet under him and moving. He seemed to go down quickly on contact (just being the devils advocate since everyone has pointed out the positives). He also needs to work on his timing and vision. I expect this will be corrected with reps.

Rudi was Rudi, but he did seem a little more explosive. He also seemed more agile than I remember him being last year. I think we all need to remember that he is still basically a second/third year player, and will probably continue to get better. He still isn't even in his prime for a RB yet.

Quincy Wison had a strong performance.. I am leaning, with Perry's outing, and considering the fact he could probably be a backup FB, towards keeping Wilson and giving Watson a pat on the back.

[b]Wide Receiver[/b]

The passing game was probably the biggest disappointment of the night. Where was TJ?? He was out there, but didn't see the ball.. Due to TV coverage, it's hard to tell why.

Chad Johnson was chad, and had the defenders beat on both of the long balls (the first one less so, he would have had to make a play on the ball to get it). The second one, he might have been able to get to, but it would have meant getting tangled up by 2 defenders, and he doesn't have anything to prove. As far as him "pouting".. I don't have the information to pass judgement.. Who knows what he said to Hugh? He is an emotional dedicated guy, cut him some slack.

Chris Henry looked good to me.. He should have had 2 touchdowns if carson hadn't overthrown him. He ran a nice route and had the seam between the CB and the FS and a clear path to the endzone. The TD he did get is a foreshadowing of the future.. The dude is tall, fast and has hops.. A definite red zone nightmare.

Kelley Washington will be on the team this year...

Our TE's still suck.. I have almost given up on Schobel, and I'm not sure who it was, but one of them was also missing blocking assignments (Ghent?).


[b]Special Teams[/b]

Our special teams play was a terrible disappointment. Larson was way behind where he was last year, and our coverage and return blocking were not sharp. Over all this unit performed far below last season. This is probably due to lack of reps in training camp.. And I'm sure Grahams injury hasn't helped. But Darrin Simmons is a great coach, and I am positive he will have us back in shape before the season starts.


OK... That's it.. I haven't spent as much time examining the 2nd half so this is mostly about our 1st team performance. The 2nd and 3rd teams (especially on Defense) played pretty badly. I will probably reserve judgement on a lot of the fringe players until the next match.

[T-Dub]

[quote]Out TE's still suck.. I have almost given up on Schobel, and I'm not sure who it was, but one of them was also missing blocking assignments (Ghent?).[/quote]

Yup, that was Ghent. I was kinda hyped after reading about him, thinking we might finally have a little competition at TE, but I'd say he definitely gave up one sack and kinda looked lost in general.

Of course like everyone's pointed out it's just the first preseason game, no need to make cuts just yet..

[gatorclaws]

I don't care what Marvin has said, we need more help at SS. Anthony Mitchell was just plain bad, and Herring hasn't done much to prove himself either.

I don't see Brandon Williams being here past the next round of cuts. He may have an upside somewhere, but he's a long way from reaching it. Too many mistakes. Gave up on one pass near the sideline, and the one in the endzone was put up on a silver platter and he still couldn't pull it in.

Everyone knows our TE's suck. Someone should tell Palmer so he doesn't waste a play by throwing to Schobel. Nothing hurts more than seeing the ball bounce off his hands 90% off the time.

The rest was pretty good though. I thought the first string defense overall was fairly good. I think the offense was just trying to put on a show with the first pass to chad. They decided before they got out there that he was getting it no matter how bad the coverage was. I knew that was going to be the play, and I'm sure many of you did also.

[bengalwhodey]

[quote name='Lucid' date='Aug 13 2005, 10:21 PM']Ok... After watching the game for a second time (thinking of making it a 3rd tonight) from my DVR I have some observations...
[b]Defensive Line[/b]

Trying to find the patriots pocket in the 1st qrtr was like playing where's waldo.. Our defensive line seems vastly improved.  The first time I watched the game I was thinking, "Wow, Daveys really sucks". But after re-watching it, it was really a combination of that and excellent pressure and coverage down field.  Bryan Robinson is definitely an upgrade at RDT, and Thornton is more in his element on the left..  Justin Smith dominated on the left side, and Jumpy Jr. did nothing but enforce my opinion that he will be a beast.. He lost containment a couple times against the run on the perimeter, but all in all an excellent outing for the new guy.

Langston Moore had a good outing, and is looking to be a solid backup.

[b]Line Backers[/b]

Again, a definite upgrade over last year.  I am a big Webster fan, but to be honest, Odell looks like he is going to be amazing.  He was out of position in coverage a lot, and seemed to mis-read a bit, but over all, his speed and tenacity are awesome. This guy will be special.

Landon Johnson was his regular tenacious self... He needs to be on the field because he knows how to play, but I would prefer to see him on the right side in a year or 2 when he replaces Simmons. All in all, he did his job.  We don't need to worry about Pollack..

Simmons was Simmons.

[b]DB's[/b]

Our 1st string secondary looked good, and I was especially impressed with Ratliff. He continues to grow into a starter.

We really missed Madieu.. Our safeties were the softest part of our starting D. 

Brandon Williams started shaky, but he seemed to make up for it later in the game. I have to agree that he faces stiff competition.. But this guy will end up on someones roster, even if it just PS.. He seems to have good upside.

Reggie Myles seemed to do a decent job at the SS position, but I didn't see enough of him to form a real opinion.

[b]Offensive Line[/b]

Our starting Offensive line (-Anderson) was just plain awesome. No need to run down the performance of future pro-bowlers Steinbach and Jones...

Andrews looked VERY promising.. He is definitely an amazing athlete, with outstanding balance and agility for a man of his size.. I would go so far as to call him  freak.  Once he gets his footwork and fundamentals down, he should be a good OT. The refs seemed to be taking it easy on him or something because I saw a good bit of holding infractions, but I saw the patriots line doing the same thing, so it seemed like universal slackness on the holding calls. 

Larry Moore might make a decent back up guard, but I don't want to see him line up at Center. Over all, I wasn't impressed with him.

I Don't have an opinion on Ghiaciuc, but that's probably a good thing.. Didn't see anything bad.
[b]Running Backs[/b]

I won't go much into Chris Perry, since he seems to be what most people have already commented on.  He looked great and I am excited about him.. But he needs to keep his balance a little better, and keep his feet under him and moving.  He seemed to go down quickly on contact (just being the devils advocate since everyone has pointed out the positives).  He also needs to work on his timing and vision.  I expect this will be corrected with reps.

Rudi was Rudi, but he did seem a little more explosive.  He also seemed more agile than I remember him being last year.  I think we all need to remember that he is still basically a second/third year player, and will probably continue to get better. He still isn't even in his prime for a RB yet.

Quincy Wison had a strong performance.. I am leaning, with Perry's outing, and considering the fact he could probably be a backup FB, towards keeping Wilson and giving Watson a pat on the back.

[b]Wide Receiver[/b]

The passing game was probably the biggest disappointment of the night.  Where was TJ?? He was out there, but didn't see the ball.. Due to TV coverage, it's hard to tell why.

Chad Johnson was chad, and had the defenders beat on both of the long balls (the first one less so, he would have had to make a play on the ball to get it).  The second one, he might have been able to get to, but it would have meant getting tangled up by 2 defenders, and he doesn't have anything to prove.  As far as him "pouting".. I don't have the information to pass judgement.. Who knows what he said to Hugh? He is an emotional dedicated guy, cut him some slack.

Chris Henry looked good to me.. He should have had 2 touchdowns if carson hadn't overthrown him. He ran a nice route and had the seam between the CB and the FS and a clear path to the endzone.  The TD he did get is a foreshadowing of the future.. The dude is tall, fast and has hops.. A definite red zone nightmare.

Kelley Washington will be on the team this year...

Our TE's still suck.. I have almost given up on Schobel, and I'm not sure who it was, but one of them was also missing blocking assignments (Ghent?).
[b]Special Teams[/b]

Our special teams play was a terrible disappointment.  Larson was way behind where he was last year, and our coverage and return blocking were not sharp.  Over all this unit performed far below last season.  This is probably due to lack of reps in training camp.. And I'm sure Grahams injury hasn't helped.  But  Darrin Simmons is a great coach, and I am positive he will have us back in shape before the season starts.
OK... That's it.. I haven't spent as much time examining the 2nd half so this is mostly about our 1st team performance.  The 2nd and 3rd teams (especially on Defense) played pretty badly.  I will probably reserve judgement on a lot of the fringe players until the next match.
[right][post="130395"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Great observations Lucid.

[|Lucid|]

Ok... I did manage to watch the game in it's entirety for the 3rd time... Spending more time examining the second half I have a couple additional observations..


Firstly, I was able to determine that our defensive woes in the second part of the game was a result of poor linebacker play.. If you watch, you'll notice the defensive line does an adequate job of holding the point of attack, and while the pressure is not as good as the 1st unit, there is decent penetration, especially from Langston Moore and Shaun Smith. I recently considered LB a position of some depth on the team. After analysis of this game, I am not sure what lead me to that conclusion. With Caleb Miller and Webster out due to injury, we are actually pretty thin at line backer.

The LB coverage was horrible, and they couldn't stay in position. On more than one of Cassels runs there was absolutely no one in the middle, and our safeties were the only ones there to make a play. It's impossible to tell who was at fault here, but it happened FAR too often for it to be a scheme problem..

Also, Cedric Sullivan, Marcus Wilkins, and Anthony Mitchell (S) were text book examples of poor tackling.. Watch the 2nd half, and if you see someone whiff horribly on a tackle, chances are it was one of those 3 guys.

Two standouts (in a BAD way) were CFA's Dan Lynch(G) and Reece Hicks(T). These guys couldn't block Pee Wee Herman... And to make things worse, they were both on the right side.. That side of the line caved almost every play when they were in. Usually with one of them standing around not blocking shit.

Broussard is a tough call to make.. But I am leaning on showing him the door. That touchdown grab was pretty nice, and he made a nice tough catch earlier on managing to hold on while taking a pretty nice hit... But this is a deep unit, and I just don't think he has enough to offer on ST to make it. I have no problem with him catching a punt on the 6 yrd line.. It's the pre-season, show me what you've got.. Make something happen... But PLEASE, don't just run in place. This is the NFL, you can't count on the opposition to be stupid and fall for a lame juke move.

Bramlet > Krenzel... This is obvious in my opinion. I will also go a step further and say it.. I would rather start developing Bramlet to replace Kitna as soon as possible. Not that I think Kitna is a bad backup, he isn't. But he doesn't fit this system any more. He would do better in a west coast offense. With our offense being built around the physical abilities of Palmer, Bramlet makes the most sense here. He has the physical attributes to run our offense.. Kitna just doesn't. A good backup is someone who can come in and you don't have to redesign the offensive gameplan around.

Forgive me if I've rambled... Had a bit to drink...

achhh must go pass out now.

[Guest Claptonrocks]

You did your homework....great in depth obserbvations instead of the usual " he looked great garb"....
Im not a fan of Brandon Willimas either but will wait and see if he steps up next game...One Michigan fan told me " I couldnt believe how much he got burnt when he was here considering how fast he is"...
Once again great job...I hope you have the time and make the effort to break down each game llike this one..It was worth the read!

[BrassBengal]

[quote name='whodeybengal' date='Aug 13 2005, 12:36 PM']I'm surprised noone has mentioned Brandon Williams.  That kid lit it up.  He made 3 or 4 consecutive tackles then nearly picked off that pass in the endzone.  Too bad he slipped and gave up the td pass though.  Chris Perry is going to be a STUD.  I was surprised how much penetration the d-line was getting but that was some of the worst tackling I've ever seen...they need to run only tackling drills for a week straight.  I came home half way through the second quarter to find that the game was on...I couldn't beleive it.  I live 3.5 hrs away from Cinci north of Columbus...about creamed in my pants when I saw it was on.  By the looks of it NBC4 in Columbus is going to be having all Bengals games    I don't know if anybody else watched it on the same station but the intro and cut-to-commercial music was extremely gay.
[right][post="130271"][/post][/right][/quote]

Lit it up. Hell no he didnt. The only reason that he had three tackles in a row is because they went his way over and over he should of had 10 tackles. Didnt you see the play where the guy caught the ball on a comback and then turned around and ran right by him with an inside move. Williams did not eveen touch him. The other bad play was when there was a ball to the sideline and he stood behind the wr and didnt even make a play on the ball and then didnt even hit the guy hard after he let him catch it. This guy sucks and needs to be gone before he drops another easy int.

[BrassBengal]

[quote name='Jason' date='Aug 13 2005, 07:39 PM']#42, Anthony Mitchell missed a LOT of tackles.  He looked just plain BAD.

Odell played well overall, but I wish he had stayed on his feet instead of jumping. 
[right][post="130375"][/post][/right][/quote]

Agree mtchell sucked he is this years hardy if he is on the team. I liked how myles played the position becaues he seemed to be in on the tackles and making them not missing.

Just wait till te qb throws the ball when he is in superman mode fyling through the air and he makes that int. i

[Guest #22]

In fact, they were LUCID observations...

[Guest mongoloido]

[quote name='#22' date='Aug 14 2005, 01:06 PM']In fact, they were LUCID observations...
[right][post="130623"][/post][/right][/quote]


*groans*

[Guest #22]

mongoloido
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/uploads/av-65.jpg[/img]
parade rainer