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Would you give up a first round pick for Bosa?

Jason

Trade for Bosa?  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you give a first round pick to the Chargers for Bosa?

    • Yes!
      19
    • No, but I'd give a 2 (and maybe a 3)
      5
    • Nope, D-line id good.
      11

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Le Tigre Hall Of Fame

Le Tigre

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Joe (or his agent) are complete dipshits. SD wisely hedging their signing bonus bets as to whether he works out. A pro-rated bonus--if he is all that and a box of peanuts--should be no biggie if he plays all years of the rookie contract, amirite? But I do not know all of the details: whether he is hurt and then cut...does the bonus loot come to him, or if he just sucks and gets cut, he doesn't?  

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happyrid Hall Of Fame

happyrid

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8 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Joe (or his agent) are complete dipshits. SD wisely hedging their signing bonus bets as to whether he works out. A pro-rated bonus--if he is all that and a box of peanuts--should be no biggie if he plays all years of the rookie contract, amirite? But I do not know all of the details: whether he is hurt and then cut...does the bonus loot come to him, or if he just sucks and gets cut, he doesn't?  

The two biggest points of contention are timing of the bonus and offset language. Both are fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, but pretty much every top 5 pick under the new CBA has either got their bonus money up front (instead of waiting for payments in future years) or got the favorable offset language. SD has an "old school" policy where they aren't willing to give either and Bosa's agents aren't willing to just cave to the way they want to do it when all the other guys taken around him get better deals. 

As far as the payment of the bonuses, it's not a huge deal. But would you rather have $5M today or $5M a year from now? Everyone obviously wants their money asap and it's entirely up for negotiation. You want it so you can buy a house/car and not take out a loan with interest. Or if you're just saving/investing it, it starts earning interest now instead of earning zero interest as you wait to get it. 

The offset argument is basically over whether a player can "double-dip" if they are cut, since the rookie contracts are fully guaranteed. So Bosa (and all the 1st rounders) first 4 years are full guarantees. But if they get cut, most of the top picks get to keep their guaranteed money and also keep whatever they make if they sign with a new team. So for example, if Bosa is cut before his 4th season, he'd still get his guaranteed salary of $7M or whatever from San Diego either way. Let's say he signs with another team for $3M a year after he gets cut. If he gets the offset language that most top picks negotiate, he also gets to keep that $3M on top of the $7M guarantee and make $10M. If SD gets the offset language they want, the $3M from the other team goes to San Diego instead and they'd only owe Bosa $4M. 

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Steve4192 NFL Veteran

Steve4192

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3 hours ago, happyrid said:

It's just about the easiest question I've seen. A likely late 1st for a top 5 overall pick at arguably our biggest need position? Hell yes. 

But it's not allowed at this point, SD can't trade him.

How is defensive end the Bengals biggest need position?

 

Sure, Margus Hunt sucks, and the early returns on Will Clarke aren't promising, but those guys are backups.  The Bengals starters are fine.  Dunlap is arguably one of the best DEs in the NFL, and Johnson is an above-average starter who is a beast against the run and adequate against the pass.  Do we really want to trade a first rounder for a backup DE?  Particularly one who comes with a ginormous rookie contract.

 

I honestly don't believe that Bosa will be any better than Johnson.  He may have been a top five pick, but I don't think he is going to be a difference maker.  I think he'll be solid starter whose primary value will come against the run.  Why would the Bengals trade a first rounder for that when they already have a guy who is proven with a similar skill set?

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khwiii NFL Veteran

khwiii

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41 minutes ago, turningpoint said:

Chargers can easily trade him, let's be real. They could do a sign and then trade deal. 

Anyways it's funny how much this guy reminds me of Justin Smith.

Sign and trades don't really work in the NFL.  Because of the cap structure, any 'signing bonus" he would have, would immediately hit the Chargers cap once he was traded. 

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TimKrumrieFan Pro Bowler

TimKrumrieFan

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3 hours ago, turningpoint said:

Chargers can easily trade him, let's be real. They could do a sign and then trade deal. 

Anyways it's funny how much this guy reminds me of Justin Smith.

The signing is the ENTIRE reason they'd consider trading him. If he got signed they have no issue and wouldn't trade the guy they wanted lol.

Plus sign and trades in the NFL screw the team who signed because they take massive cap hits for nothing. No team is stupid enough to sign and trade.

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Steve4192 NFL Veteran

Steve4192

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6 hours ago, turningpoint said:

Chargers can easily trade him, let's be real. They could do a sign and then trade deal. 

Anyways it's funny how much this guy reminds me of Justin Smith.

If I thought he had any chance of being as good as Justin Smith, I would trade for him in a heartbeat.  But I don't think he is that good.

Smith got a bad rap from Bengals fans because he never turned into an elite pass rusher and played on a bunch of shitty teams, but his career in San Francisco proved that he was a great player all along.  He just had no help while in Cincinnati.  I actually think Michael Johnson is a lot like Smith.  A poor man's version, but similar.

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T-Dub Hall Of Fame

T-Dub

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1 hour ago, Steve4192 said:

 

Smith got a bad rap from Bengals fans because he never turned into an elite pass rusher and played on a bunch of shitty teams, but his career in San Francisco proved that he was a great player all along.  He just had no help while in Cincinnati.  I actually think Michael Johnson is a lot like Smith.  A poor man's version, but similar.

 

That's a bit of a revisionist history.  By his own admission, J Smith didn't really watch film or put in the off-field work while he was here.  The only thing holding him back as a Bengals was himself.

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GoBengals Hall Of Fame

-GoBengals-

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On 8/25/2016 at 10:56 AM, happyrid said:

It's just about the easiest question I've seen. A likely late 1st for a top 5 overall pick at arguably our biggest need position? Hell yes. 

But it's not allowed at this point, SD can't trade him.

our biggest need position?

:pokerface-min:

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Harley Super Bowl Champ

|Harley|

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That's a bit of a revisionist history.  By his own admission, J Smith didn't really watch film or put in the off-field work while he was here.  The only thing holding him back as a Bengals was himself.



Smith was a workout beast. I never remember him admitting he didn't watch film.

The problem was he never got the huge sack numbers expected of him and played on bad teams. He was a high profile rookie who blossomed late.




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TimKrumrieFan Pro Bowler

TimKrumrieFan

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12 hours ago, Harley said:

 


Smith was a workout beast. I never remember him admitting he didn't watch film.

The problem was he never got the huge sack numbers expected of him and played on bad teams. He was a high profile rookie who blossomed late.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yep cuz the team put him in a 4-3 when he was perfectly built for a 3-4. Then he beasted once he got put into a 3-4.

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happyrid Hall Of Fame

happyrid

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On August 25, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Steve4192 said:

How is defensive end the Bengals biggest need position?

 

Sure, Margus Hunt sucks, and the early returns on Will Clarke aren't promising, but those guys are backups.  The Bengals starters are fine.  Dunlap is arguably one of the best DEs in the NFL, and Johnson is an above-average starter who is a beast against the run and adequate against the pass.  Do we really want to trade a first rounder for a backup DE?  Particularly one who comes with a ginormous rookie contract.

 

I honestly don't believe that Bosa will be any better than Johnson.  He may have been a top five pick, but I don't think he is going to be a difference maker.  I think he'll be solid starter whose primary value will come against the run.  Why would the Bengals trade a first rounder for that when they already have a guy who is proven with a similar skill set?

1. The Bengals don't really have any huge needs. Pretty well setup at every position. A better question might be, which position do you think is a bigger need?

2. Kind of piggy-backing on #1, the Bengals have early draft picks lined up at most positions waiting their turn for older players to move on (Eric Fisher, Nick Vigil, Will Jackson, etc.). They don't have that at DE. MJ turns 30 in a few months. Margus Hunt is 29, a FA after the season and not very good. DE is the one position that could really use an injection of young talent next draft. Adding a 21-year old like Bosa (or a 1st/2nd rounder next draft) adds youth to an aging position group, helps set us up to have a strong rotation and gives us an MJ replacement in the pipeline. It seems like a pretty obvious position for an upgrade...

3. Bosa is over 8 years younger than MJ. Even if I agreed that Bosa won't be as good as MJ (I don't), it doesn't mean he wouldn't end up being a long-term starter here. 

 

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happyrid Hall Of Fame

happyrid

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On August 26, 2016 at 10:51 AM, turningpoint said:

Chargers can easily trade him, let's be real. They could do a sign and then trade deal. 

Anyways it's funny how much this guy reminds me of Justin Smith.

No, they literally cannot trade him. 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/09/window-closes-on-potential-trade-of-joey-bosa-in-2016/

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It’s official. In 2016, defensive end Joey Bosawill play for the Chargers or for no one.

As first explained last week by PFT, the window for trading Bosa closed at 4:00 p.m. ET today, 30 days before the start of the regular season. He can’t be traded until the 2017 league year opens, at the earliest.

 

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Lucid Hall Of Fame

|Lucid|

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3 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Didn't SI do a piece on him? Think that's where I read it. 

I remember that as well. He was saying that he never really bought in here and put in the effort that he should have in the film room etc. He took the blame for it or whatever, but it was still annoying.

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Bengals1181 Hall Of Fame

Bengals1181

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1 hour ago, Lucid said:

I remember that as well. He was saying that he never really bought in here and put in the effort that he should have in the film room etc. He took the blame for it or whatever, but it was still annoying.

 

 

indeed.  He admitted to never watching film in Cincy.  Said he'd take the DVD home and use it as a beer coaster.

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T-Dub Hall Of Fame

T-Dub

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1 hour ago, Bengals1181 said:

 

 

indeed.  He admitted to never watching film in Cincy.  Said he'd take the DVD home and use it as a beer coaster.

 

Classic Justin Smith there.  It'd be even funnier if he wasn't considered one of the leaders of the defense at the time.

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