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Dalton is Elite


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Think Dalton deserves his own thread. He absolutely took a beating today and still led us to the victory. Missed on 2 throws which were costly. The INT was a bad throw but think it was 3rd and 20. Also missed wide oped Uzomah for a walk in touchdown, but was forced to throw off back foot because of pressure. He was on the money on every other throw including beautiful touch on his deep balls to Green and Lafell. Cant wait to see this offense when we get Eifert back.

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Actually that 54 yard TD pass to Green was underthrown. Green had to slow up to reel it in, if Revis had been in his prime he likely would have been able to bat it down. To me that remains Dalton's biggest hole in his game, ball placement on deep throws. 

I do not consider Dalton to be in the same class of QB as Brady, Rodgers, Toothlessburger (puke) or Brees but the dropoff from them to him and the likes of guys like Palmer isn't too steep.

What I like most about Andy is his leadership and moxie. He showed a lot by just keeping getting up after getting destroyed by behemoths on all those sacks. He's not elite but I love his play just the same.

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4 minutes ago, jhowdy54 said:

Dalton was on his way to a potential MVP season last year. They said his success was do to his great receiving targets in Green, Eifert, Jones, and Sanu. Think he was missing a few of his targets today.

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I agree with this. Unlike Brady, whom makes average wideouts not named Randy Moss (and you saw what kind of season HE had with Brady under center...good grief!) better, it's the reverse with Dalton. Sure, Dalton can make plenty of plays but he requires more talent around him to succeed than an elite QB like Brady does. No knock on Andy, it just is what it is. And if Dalton hadn't gotten hurt, he may very well have received the MVP or at least been top three. Hopefully this season is a mirror image of last season for him, minus the injury.

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3 hours ago, Bunghole said:

I agree with this. Unlike Brady, whom makes average wideouts not named Randy Moss (and you saw what kind of season HE had with Brady under center...good grief!) better, it's the reverse with Dalton. Sure, Dalton can make plenty of plays but he requires more talent around him to succeed than an elite QB like Brady does.

Just my opinion, but I used to feel that way and now feel like he has risen to a level of making players around him better. Nowhere near Tom Brady level, but I think he has become a pretty damn good QB. Probably took a few sacks today that he could have thrown the ball away on, but at this point in his career he makes damn good decisions most of the time and if it wasn't for a few very minor arm shortcomings, would be a stud. He's got it mentally now and physically can do just about anything you need him too- considering most QBs can't hit a high percentage of very deep throws also.

 

i think he can elevate the play of lafell, Boyd, all of the TEs including Eifert, and just enhance/help produce the level of play by Green. Again, not like Brady does with his receivers, but I think he's on the lower rung of QBs that do elevate play of others around them

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I think the hierarchy among current NFL quarterbacks goes something like this...

Brady

Rodgers

Newton

Roethlisberger

Rivers

Brees

Ryan

Dalton

Wilson

Palmer

Stafford

Winston

Obviously, everyone has their own take.  Andy Dalton, to me, is Top 10 and has solidified his place as a perennial Pro Bowl contender, but I don't think he's "elite".  I'd reserve that for the top 3 or 4 guys at their position.

BTW, I know most people would put Russell Wilson ahead of Dalton.  Not me.  I think - and have always thought - that Wilson is a product of a great system.  Without Marshawn Lynch around, I think he'll be exposed this year.

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6 hours ago, Big Alice said:

I think the hierarchy among current NFL quarterbacks goes something like this...

Brady

Rodgers

Newton

Roethlisberger

Rivers

Brees

Ryan

Dalton

Wilson

Palmer

Stafford

Winston

Obviously, everyone has their own take.  Andy Dalton, to me, is Top 10 and has solidified his place as a perennial Pro Bowl contender, but I don't think he's "elite".  I'd reserve that for the top 3 or 4 guys at their position.

BTW, I know most people would put Russell Wilson ahead of Dalton.  Not me.  I think - and have always thought - that Wilson is a product of a great system.  Without Marshawn Lynch around, I think he'll be exposed this year.

I never thought I'd say this, but I think Andy is better than Matt Ryan...and it's not close.  Based on your list, I'd also put Wilson above Andy and possibly Luck and Winston based on how this year goes.

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I think he's a top 10 QB now. Maybe no better than that, but with a strong D, and a good supporting cast of skill players, that's enough to make a deep run. 

He has come a long way with his leadership, and command of the offense. His ability to get them into better plays and not force as many passes has really progressed. It's great to see. 

He doesn't panic. And when they need a score, I have a lot more confidence in his ability to lead them there now. They have had a lot of turnover during his time there - his 3rd OC, new TEs, some new WRs, and they are still getting it done. Clearly it's a team effort, but he's been a big part of it. 

 

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He completed 77% of his passes in the face of an insanely effective rush, didn't let the pounding force him into making bad throws as the game went on, and beat NY deep downfield several times. And unless anyone wants to seriously argue that Lafell and Boyd were on upgrade on Jones and Sanu, he elevated the game of those two in their Bengals debuts, while also making good use of CJ Uzomah. I think he is easily top 10 at this point, and an argument could be made he is moving into the elite designation. If he doesn't get hurt last year and finished top 3 in MVP voting, which me might have, I think many would admit he's already there. We had no business winning that game, given the lack of run game, the newness at receiver, and the line play. That we won it speaks a ton to the level of QB play for this team at this point.

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2 hours ago, WRAPradio said:

I never thought I'd say this, but I think Andy is better than Matt Ryan...and it's not close.  Based on your list, I'd also put Wilson above Andy and possibly Luck and Winston based on how this year goes.

I'll buy all of that.

Matt Ryan can blow up on any given Sunday, but you're probably right.  

Andrew Luck could be anywhere in that list.  He might have the most ability of anyone in the league.  In 2013 & '14, he was right on the cusp of being Top 5.  He may get right back there.  In '13 and '14, he was among the best in the business.  Last year, before the Colts shut him down, he just wasn't very good.

Winston is the real deal.  I don't know if he can do enough in one year to pass Dalton, but he - eventually - probably will.  That dude is something else.

As it applies to the Bengals, this has been my question for about 18 months...

At what point do we start talking about Andy Dalton as the greatest Bengal quarterback of all time?

Is it the day after his first playoff win?  Does he need to win a Conference championship?  Or are his perceived physical limitations so great that he'll always be "the guy that threw to A.J. Green"?  Frankly, I don't know.

Dalton has as many 10 win seasons for the Bengals as Boomer Esiason and Carson Palmer COMBINED.  Dalton's led the team to the playoffs more times (5) in his five seasons than Ken Anderson (4) did in his THIRTEEN as a starter, and Dalton's career winning percentage is 14% better (66% v. 52%).  1981 and '88 were awesome years for us, but we've kinda forgotten that in the years surrounding those two Super Bowl trips, the Bengals weren't very good.

Here's a stat that just might make your head explode....  Apart from Andy Dalton, there are four quarterbacks that had a career winning record for the Bengals - Anderson, Esiason, Virgil Carter, and Turk Schonert.  Andy Dalton is more games over .500 than all of them COMBINED (25-15).  And then...  If the Bengals finish 10-6 this year, Dalton will be over .500 by - get this - TWICE AS MANY games as all of those guys combined.  

That's kinda ridiculous.

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16 hours ago, Big Alice said:

I think the hierarchy among current NFL quarterbacks goes something like this...

Brady

Rodgers

Newton

Roethlisberger

Rivers

Brees

Ryan

Dalton

Wilson

Palmer

Stafford

Winston

Obviously, everyone has their own take.  Andy Dalton, to me, is Top 10 and has solidified his place as a perennial Pro Bowl contender, but I don't think he's "elite".  I'd reserve that for the top 3 or 4 guys at their position.

BTW, I know most people would put Russell Wilson ahead of Dalton.  Not me.  I think - and have always thought - that Wilson is a product of a great system.  Without Marshawn Lynch around, I think he'll be exposed this year.

Ryan needs to be dropped way down your list. He is so bad in recent years and KILLS his team. Stafford needs to be higher. He's going to be an absolute monster now that he has an OC that has a clue. He's been amazing since Cooter took over as his OC during the season last year. I really believe Brees is the best QB in the NFL right now and I don't think it is very close but he has no defense (or coach, Payton is trash) whatsoever on his team so he doesn't get the wins and success that Brady does. 

Only talking right now and not considering the past I'd rank:

Brees

Rodgers

Brady

Cam

Big Douche

Dalton

Stafford

Wilson

Luck (I'm not nearly as sold on him as being a God as the media is. He is so dumb at times for being a "star" and Stanford guy)

Rivers

Winston

Palmer

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The fact that he came out shaky and then settled down after continuing to get crushed says a lot about how far this guy has come. He used to wilt when he felt ghost pressure. Now he's standing in the pocket, taking hits, and delivering strikes. He's getting multiple playoff wins this year.

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I agree with most that Dalton is a top 10 QB.  He does have some physical limitations that include arm strength, but he is a damn good QB.  I thought he was shaky in the first half with all the hits.  Along with the pick his big completion to Uzomah was very lucky.  Could have been another pick.  He then underthrew Uzomah and then overthrew Uzomah.  Just shows he's human, but he wasn't all that great under pressure.  The quick passes got him settled and he was good from that point.  His stats may approach the top QBs on most lists, but until he does what he did yesterday in the playoffs he isn't there yet.   YET.  

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11 minutes ago, JC said:

The fact that he came out shaky and then settled down after continuing to get crushed says a lot about how far this guy has come. He used to wilt when he felt ghost pressure. Now he's standing in the pocket, taking hits, and delivering strikes. He's getting multiple playoff wins this year.

Yep, Andy was a stud yesterday for sure. He was also a stud mofo last season too... Are there many here that don't think the Bengals would of had a first round by had Dalton not got hurt?

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