SmoothD Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 The loss of both of the coaches have hurt tremendously. You can definitely see it in the secondary. Players really respected Vance and his knowledge of the game. Word on the street is that the players are not too fond of Kevin Coyle and his schemes If Marv is let go, I would like to see Vance brought in as the HC and Carrier brought back as an assistant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Absoutely agree. I think it also shows in how we have so much young, high draft choice talent back there (esp. Kirkpatrick and Dennard but also Williams and Shaw) and it is not being developed and turned into quality football players. All those young high potential (I hate that word) players and we are missing Grandma Nelson. Wish the guy well, but we certainly should be doing hella better here. And, if I recall correctly, the Miami players did not have a lot of respect for him and weren't sad to see him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothD Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, High School Harry said: Absoutely agree. I think it also shows in how we have so much young, high draft choice talent back there (esp. Kirkpatrick and Dennard but also Williams and Shaw) and it is not being developed and turned into quality football players. All those young high potential (I hate that word) players and we are missing Grandma Nelson. Wish the guy well, but we certainly should be doing hella better here. And, if I recall correctly, the Miami players did not have a lot of respect for him and weren't sad to see him go. You are correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esjbh2 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Makes sense to me. Something is definitely off with the guys lately. Maybe it's just the losing (and tie), but they don't have the confidence or "all for one" mentality anymore in my observations. You see more bickering out there, more confusion and disagreement. I watch Adam specifically and he's just not the same, and I know some will say it's his "Twilight" time, but I really don't think that's the reason or at least the only reason anyway. Different schemes and systems that don't fit the personnel does seem to be a more reasonable explanation. Players need to completely buy-in to schemes/systems to work effectively IMHO and maybe they just don't any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalFanInTO Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 The Bengals have invested the heaviest, in the form of the draft and free agency, in the secondary and offensive line. The fact that both areas are a dumpster fire really speaks volumes in regards to the coaching. I think in general the Bengals have lost so much quality in coaches and coordinators that it is really starting to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothD Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 On 10/31/2016 at 10:20 AM, BengalFanInTO said: The Bengals have invested the heaviest, in the form of the draft and free agency, in the secondary and offensive line. The fact that both areas are a dumpster fire really speaks volumes in regards to the coaching. I think in general the Bengals have lost so much quality in coaches and coordinators that it is really starting to show. I've always said if you look at the NFL as being equal , in terms of size, strength, speed of players, every team is about the same. The thing that separates 1st, 2nd, and 3rd tier teams is coaching and schemes. Perfect example would be Jacksonville. That team is stack on the offensive side of the ball, but can't score. We were very good last year defensively with the same players as this year, but can't stop anyone. Coaching and schemes are killing us. No one out there seems confident anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Not to interfere with the Joseph worship...but his divinity isn't really showing up in South Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 and Mark Carrier doesn't have a job I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimKrumrieFan Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Coyle used to be here and guys like Joseph, Hall and Pacman were really positive about him and his coaching. They are playing zone and pretty similar zone that they've run for years when Guenther/Zimmer installed it. Pacman looks like he finally reached his age and looks slow as shit. Iloka is in the wrong defense a lot... playing man when zone and zone when man. Williams bites the PA fake too much (like every Bengals player seems to since I've been alive) and looks to make the big hit too often instead of playing the ball or securing the tackle. Burfict looks nowhere close to 100% healthy since he started playing. I feel like someone leaked that report due to sour grapes for their bad play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimKrumrieFan Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 8 hours ago, SmoothD said: I've always said if you look at the NFL as being equal , in terms of size, strength, speed of players, every team is about the same. The thing that separates 1st, 2nd, and 3rd tier teams is coaching and schemes. Perfect example would be Jacksonville. That team is stack on the offensive side of the ball, but can't score. We were very good last year defensively with the same players as this year, but can't stop anyone. Coaching and schemes are killing us. No one out there seems confident anymore They have a bad QB, WR who can only win jump balls and can't run routes for shit. Crappy OL and running game. And a TE who Peyton/D.Thomas/E.Sanders made look good. That team was a disaster before the season and even more of a disaster now as teams have realized they are below average at almost every position. As far as the schemes here...they haven't changed. The players have gotten older and the young talent hasn't stepped up enough to hide the steps the vets have lost. That is partially on the coaches, partially on Tobin and in some cases bad luck. Pacman took a major step back this year so far. Micahel Johnson went from like 27 to 37 overnight. Burfict has looked injured since the moment he returned from suspension. Iloka is having a really down year. They have no 3rd DE (or 2nd DE really with MJ dying off). Geno has little help and Thompson, Haridson and Billings have been out injured really killing the expected boost and snaps they were to provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 not really... losing the smarts of the safety spot and the acquisition of dansby is hurting us the most... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 i dont know if leon halls leadership of missed at all, but he and nelson took 20 years of DB experience with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostInDaJungle Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 18 hours ago, TimKrumrieFan said: They have a bad QB, WR who can only win jump balls and can't run routes for shit. Crappy OL and running game. And a TE who Peyton/D.Thomas/E.Sanders made look good. That team was a disaster before the season and even more of a disaster now as teams have realized they are below average at almost every position. As far as the schemes here...they haven't changed. The players have gotten older and the young talent hasn't stepped up enough to hide the steps the vets have lost. That is partially on the coaches, partially on Tobin and in some cases bad luck. Pacman took a major step back this year so far. Micahel Johnson went from like 27 to 37 overnight. Burfict has looked injured since the moment he returned from suspension. Iloka is having a really down year. They have no 3rd DE (or 2nd DE really with MJ dying off). Geno has little help and Thompson, Haridson and Billings have been out injured really killing the expected boost and snaps they were to provide. What's crazy is that scheme aside, there's too many blown coverages. Guys no on the same page. It's hard to judge them on the job they're doing when they don't know the job they're supposed to be doing. God bless Pac-Man, but if you watched hard knocks, you know... He's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Illoka isn't going to be performing rocket surgery anytime soon either. Have you seen Dre Kirkpatrick interviewed? This is what now exists as the veteran core of the Bengals defense. Combine that with Burfict's absence and erratic leadership. Yes, Rey Maualuga still can't maintain gap integrity in his 87th year in the league... It's who he is and I can accept that and complain about the player. I'm not sure anyone in the secondary is smart enough to "know" the playbook every week. Leon Hall and JJoe were at least passably intelligent. Maybe Kevin Coyle finds it harder to work with guys who all scored single digits on their Wonderlics. All great wars are won and lost on one thing. Leadership. From mustering on the field of battle trusting the man beside you to believing in, knowing, and executing the scheme, it's leadership. We lost a lot of that with Reggie Nelson, and I would argue that we have lacked a leader in the front 7 for a long time. There was hope that Burfict is that guy, but he's been a wild card. Gotta sprinkle in a few guys smart enough to understand the scheme with all of the dunderheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 On 11/1/2016 at 8:49 PM, TimKrumrieFan said: Coyle used to be here and guys like Joseph, Hall and Pacman were really positive about him and his coaching. They are playing zone and pretty similar zone that they've run for years when Guenther/Zimmer installed it. Wait, what? I thought Zimmer's scheme was all about in-your-face man coverage? They sure seemed to be trying to jam the WR's a lot if it was supposed to be a zone scheme. I thought the soft zone shit was Coyle's influence? Well, that and the NFL insisting on this being a passing league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimKrumrieFan Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 On 11/3/2016 at 8:24 AM, T-Dub said: Wait, what? I thought Zimmer's scheme was all about in-your-face man coverage? They sure seemed to be trying to jam the WR's a lot if it was supposed to be a zone scheme. I thought the soft zone shit was Coyle's influence? Well, that and the NFL insisting on this being a passing league. We haven't hard man corners on this team for a long time. When we had guys capable of it we did it more. We've been much more zone than anything for a while now which sucks cuz Dre's best ability is his ability to press and we never do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 4 hours ago, TimKrumrieFan said: We haven't hard man corners on this team for a long time. When we had guys capable of it we did it more. We've been much more zone than anything for a while now which sucks cuz Dre's best ability is his ability to press and we never do it. Dennard has played press in college as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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