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High School Harry

Bengals working on a trade for McCarron?

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15 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

Kim Kardashian has an arrogant ass, my ass is very humble and unassuming. 

That she does.

My apologies, sir. I was over the top with the comments. 

I still think you are full of shit though. ?

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Andy is the starter; McCarron wants to be a starter and starter money. Therefore he must be traded before he walks. Because Andy is the lock for starter for years, you start over with a rook as a backup.

Unrelated: if Sean Mannion ever gets his chance, he could lead a team. Unfortunately he's 3rd string on a suck team.


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4 hours ago, T-Dub said:

I don't think they were all that great at it then, either.  Smith was at least average & they gave up fewer sacks, but Dalton was still running for his life most of the time or taking 3-step drops. Often both. Look at their rushing numbers - the OL was seriously overrated.  Losing an average RT wouldn't cause a good OL to go completely to shit the way they did.  It was smoke & mirrors.

Our O-line has always struggled with run blocking, but they have consistently been among the best in the league in pass blocking.  Not just low sack numbers, but also low QB hurries and QB hits.  Dalton has been very well protected most of his career.

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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

Our O-line has always struggled with run blocking, but they have consistently been among the best in the league in pass blocking.  Not just low sack numbers, but also low QB hurries and QB hits.  Dalton has been very well protected most of his career.

 

Yeah I disagree, the only reason he's not been hit more is because ihe's fairly elusive & has one of the quickest release times in the league.  He's constantly under pressure from up the middle. Look at how much time he spends iin shotgun formations. People complain about the lack of deep passing constantly & that's a direct result of not having enough time in the pocket for those routes to develop. Almost all of his deep shots come off PA or other bootleg-type plays meant to get him moving away from the rush.

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3 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Our O-line has always struggled with run blocking, but they have consistently been among the best in the league in pass blocking.  Not just low sack numbers, but also low QB hurries and QB hits.  Dalton has been very well protected most of his career.

...er what?.... 

Andy was the #2 most sacked QB this season behind Tyrod Taylor

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/sacks

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15 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

Actually, I think it was behind Cedric Ogbuhei.

 

I had a sensible chuckle, but then I went looking for individual stats for sacks allowed & couldn't find them.  I know it's kind of a shaky stat to begin with but I'd still be interested to know how our guys graded out if anyone has a source.

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On 1/6/2017 at 9:33 AM, LostInDaJungle said:

As a Gator Alum - I refuse to believe that Driskel is ever going to be a competent QB.

Driskel had 3 different QB coaches and Offensive Coordinators in 4 years at Florida.  That's a disaster for a 

young QB trying to develop his game.  The Bengals had to have seen something they liked in the kid because

they normally only carry 2 QB's on the roster the last few years besides this past year where they kept Driskel

on it.  

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Jim O or Paul Denher said on their podcast that no one offered a 2nd and 4th for McCarron and made it sound like the Bengals should accept a high 3rd if the offer arises. I really doubt we are getting any kind of a first rounder out of this.

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4 hours ago, JC said:

Jim O or Paul Denher said on their podcast that no one offered a 2nd and 4th for McCarron and made it sound like the Bengals should accept a high 3rd if the offer arises. I really doubt we are getting any kind of a first rounder out of this.

 

Kind of ridiculous when you think about it.  Unlike every single QB in the draft, McC0oter has won NFL games and looked promising doing it.  How is he not worth a 2nd round pick, but some unknown like Pat Mahomes from TexTech is?  The draft just gets to be more absurd of a hype-fest every season.

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6 hours ago, JC said:

Jim O or Paul Denher said on their podcast that no one offered a 2nd and 4th for McCarron and made it sound like the Bengals should accept a high 3rd if the offer arises. I really doubt we are getting any kind of a first rounder out of this.

How do they know? Pffffttt...

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I am starting to think that McCarron might not be traded this year. I think Garrapalo, Glennon and Tyrod Taylor go first for starters. And Bortles holds on to the position in Jacksonville with Marrone being named HC. That leaves maybe 3 more spots available and probably 3 QBs in the draft that get around a first round grade. And then add in Romo and Cutler. 

We also don't really need draft picks in this draft. We might already have 11.

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2 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

I am starting to think that McCarron might not be traded this year. I think Garrapalo, Glennon and Tyrod Taylor go first for starters. And Bortles holds on to the position in Jacksonville with Marrone being named HC. That leaves maybe 3 more spots available and probably 3 QBs in the draft that get around a first round grade. And then add in Romo and Cutler. 

We also don't really need draft picks in this draft. We might already have 11.

I don't think the Bills see either E.J. or Cardale as the answer, so if Taylor leaves that actually opens another hole that needs to be filled.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with Glennon.  On one hand some teams will love that big arm, but on the other hand he is viewed as a failure as a starter.  McCarron might also be 5-13 as a starter if he had been in Glennon's position with the Bucs talent around him, but instead he stepped into a very good team and ended up looking like a winner.

Not bashing McCarron.  I think he is a pretty good QB.  I am just saying that the talent around a QB can either make him look better or worse.

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3 hours ago, EnglishBengal said:

If McCarron leaves it will come back to bite Bengaldom in the ass, when he wins the SB with another team. The guy is a winner!

Another Greg McElroy.:good3:

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7 hours ago, EnglishBengal said:

If McCarron leaves it will come back to bite Bengaldom in the ass, when he wins the SB with another team. The guy is a winner @marriage!

FIFY

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On 07/01/2017 at 5:50 PM, T-Dub said:

 

Yeah I disagree, the only reason he's not been hit more is because ihe's fairly elusive & has one of the quickest release times in the league.  He's constantly under pressure from up the middle. Look at how much time he spends iin shotgun formations. People complain about the lack of deep passing constantly & that's a direct result of not having enough time in the pocket for those routes to develop. Almost all of his deep shots come off PA or other bootleg-type plays meant to get him moving away from the rush.

I agree with this. Let's face it our O-line is slipping light years behind the Dallas Cowboys group right now.

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On 1/4/2017 at 5:10 PM, Bleeds Orange said:

Okay, so when Dalton goes down to injury, who do you hand the team over to?

thanks.. that's the Elephant in the room.  inside Info?  we can just guess what GMs think... so....anyone figure he STARTS? Bengals underachieved and ....is it good to cash out the QB backup?  Well....perhaps but for WHAT?  would you sell your CAR? Well.... what's the DEAL?

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6 minutes ago, redwood said:

thanks.. that's the Elephant in the room.  inside Info?  we can just guess what GMs think... so....anyone figure he STARTS? Bengals underachieved and ....is it good to cash out the QB backup?  Well....perhaps but for WHAT?  would you sell your CAR? Well.... what's the DEAL?

Wut

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Bengals decision about trading McCarron not so simple

 

CINCINNATI (WKRC) - Among the many roster decisions the Bengals face this offseason is whether or not to trade backup quarterback AJ McCarron, and while on the surface it seems an easy decision to make it really isn't that simple.

McCarron will enter the 2017 season in the final year of his initial four-year rookie contract (at a reasonable $690,000) and will be a restricted free agent after the season, so the prevailing belief is to get something for McCarron now rather than getting nothing if he leaves in free agency.

The Bengals could sign him to a one-year qualifying offer after the 2017 season and even if he is offered a better deal from a new team the Bengals would still have the ability to match the offer and retain him, or choose not to match the offer, in which case they could receive a draft pick from the new team based on the qualifying offer. For the 2016 offseason, here were the qualifying offer options (dollar amounts from OverTheCap):

  • First round tender: 1 year, approximately $3.6 million
  • Second round tender: 1 year, approximately $2.5 million
  • Right of first refusal/Original round tender: 1 year, approximately $1.6 million
     

That means if the Bengals offer McCarron any of those three options they would receive either a first-round pick, second-round pick or fifth-round pick (his original draft selection) in the 2018 draft if a team signs him.

Now, signing a backup quarterback for that kind of money wouldn't exactly be the prudent thing for the Bengals to do, which brings us back to the idea of trading him this offseason.

Any team trading for McCarron is doing so with the premise he would be its starting quarterback in 2017 and then could try to sign him to a long-term contract or slap a tender offer on him, as was described above.

That makes McCarron a little more valuable on the trade market.

But here's where it's time to pump the brakes on the idea of trading McCarron.

There actually aren't a lot of teams who are in need of a starting quarterback and the market could be flush with some available on the trade market (Tyrod Taylor, Tony Romo and Jimmy Garoppolo), some who could be released by their current teams (Colin Kaepernick, Jay Cutler and Nick Foles) and a handful who could be available as free agents (Kirk Cousins, Case Keenum, Brian Hoyer and even Ryan Fitzpatrick).

There are also three quarterbacks as early projections to be first-round draft picks (Clemson's Deshaun Watson, North Carolina's Mitch Trubisky and Notre Dame's DeShone Kizer).

Then there is the fact that the 2017 season could very well be Marvin Lewis' last one as Bengals head coach, and there is still a core of players good enough for the Bengals to make a run at the playoffs after missing out in 2016.

There needs to be a few tweaks of the roster and to re-sign some of their own free agents (Andrew Whitworth, Kevin Zeitler and Dre Kirkpatrick chief among them) and if that takes place the Bengals will be closer to being a playoff team than not. Don't forget that five of their losses in 2016 were be a combined 16 points, and some of that was caused by Mike Nugent's kicking problems.

There wasn't a huge chasm between winning and losing in 2016.

Make no mistake that Lewis thinks his team can make a run at the playoffs in 2017, which brings us back to what to do with McCarron?

Look, the guy wants to start and probably deserves to start, but the Bengals can't afford to go into the 2017 season without a proven backup to starter Andy Dalton.

Things didn't work out too well for a couple of playoff teams last weekend that were forced to start backups (Miami and Oakland).

McCarron proved in four 2015 starts that he is an extremely capable backup when he led the Bengals to a 2-1 record in their final three games and then appeared to have guided them to a playoff win before the Jeremy Hill fumble and Vontaze Burfict/Adam Jones meltdown.

He didn't prove he was good enough to be the starter ahead of Dalton even if his passer rating was 100.0 in the three regular-season starts. It should be noted he wasn't asked to do much in two of those games (attempting just 21 passes against San Francisco and 27 against Baltimore) and then had a rating of just 68.3 in the playoff game against Pittsburgh.

What he did prove was that if Dalton is injured the drop-off isn't nearly as severe as it is for several other teams in the NFL (like Ben Roethlisberger to Landry Jones in Pittsburgh, for example).

Sure, the Bengals signed Jeff Driskel just before the season started after he was cut by San Francisco and thought enough of him to keep him protected on the 53-player roster all season. But it would be hard to feel comfortable with him as the backup to Dalton heading into next season. Maybe he showed enough in practice to make the organization feel that way, but he hasn't proven a thing yet when it matters. McCarron has.

If the Bengals are wowed by a deal for McCarron then I can understand them possibly pulling the trigger, but there's no guarantee a team is willing to wow them. If not, then it would be wise for many reasons that he is the team's backup again in 2017.

 

http://local12.com/sports/bengals/bengals-decision-about-trading-mccarron-not-so-simple

 

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Ive been doing needs posts and thought I would just do the post here for QB because I only see it happening should McCarron leave. 

As far as I can tell ignoring the guys that may return in free agency I see our needs as: 2nd WR, LT, C, RG, RT, K, LDT, RDE, SLB, MLB, S, CB, CB, Backup QB, RB Depth. These are at all kinds of different levels. Some can be filled in house, some will be filled with re-signed free agents, some will have to come from the draft or free agency.

·         Mike Glennon-Buccaneers: Glennon is the top candidate on the market who is most likely to change teams. He played sparingly this year with only 10 completions on 11 attempts. His career stats paint a very good picture. 18 starts, 4100 yards, 30-15 and 59%.

·         Brian Hoyer-Bears: Hoyer had some quality starts for the Bears this year and wasn’t terrible for the Texans in 2015. He has 31 career starts and a passer rating of 98 in 2016 and 91.4 in 2015. This year he had 1,445 yards, 6-0 and 67%. He’s played for 5 teams in his career.

·         Landry Jones-Stealers: Jones has 4 starts over his career with the Stealers. This year he has filled in well with 558 yards, 4-2 and 61%.

·         Matt Barkley-Bears: Barkley wasn’t good enough for the Cardinals or the Eagles but was ok at times for the Bears. He had the only 6 starts of his career this season throwing for 1,611 yards, 8-14 and 59.7%. He had 3 300 yard games.

·         Geno Smith-Jets: Smith has 30 career starts but is coming off an ACL tear and a broken jaw.

·         Ryan Fitzpatrick-Jets: Fitzpatrick held out and then played very poorly with 12 tds and 17 ints. He is a veteran though with 116 career starts.

·         Case Keenum-Rams: Keenum started for most of the year and was not inspiring. He’s got 25 career starts in Houston and LA. This year he threw for 2,201 yards, 9-11 and 61%.

·         Nick Foles-Chiefs: Foles has 35 career starts and a lifetime 88.1 passer rating. He is on his 3rd team despite being just 27. This year he threw for 410 yards, 3-0 and 65%. He is due 10.75 Million in 2017 with 0 dead cap.

·         Colin Kaepernick-49ers: Kaepernick was replaced by Gabbert then won the job back. The 29 year old has 59 career starts. This year he had 2,241 yards, 16-4 and 59% and 2 tds on the ground.

·         Blaine Gabbert-49ers: Gabbert started 5 games this year and wasn’t great although he had didn’t have much of a supporting cast either. Finished with 925 yards, 5-6 and 56.9%. Also ran in a couple scores.

·         Matt Cassell-Titans: The 34 year old Cassell has started 80 career games including one this year for the Titans and 7 last year for the Cowboys.

·         TJ Yates-Dolphins: Yates didn’t play this year but has 7 career starts and is just 29. He also has that playoff win against us a few year backs with the Texans.

·         Christian Ponder-49ers: The former first rounder is only 28 and has 36 career starts all with the Vikings in his first 4 years.

·         Austin Davis-Broncos: Davis is currently a Free Agent. He has 10 career starts and had a decent season with the Rams in 2014 with 12-9 2001 yards and 63.4% and a 85.1 passer rating.

Projection: I don’t see McCarron getting traded. I don’t think we should be in a rush when we have 11 picks in this draft, he’s cheap and without him we are lost should Dalton go down. And if we are not in a rush I think the market won’t come to us. I think Taylor, Cutler, Romo, Glennon and Garrapalo will be guys who will find landing spots before teams start thinking about trading for McCarron. Then you add in teams thinking about drafting Turbisky, Kizer and Watson in the 1st or 2nd round. I should call this a personal projection because I don’t really see this happening but what I think they should do is sign Austin Davis immediately. He has starting experience and is a somewhat similar player to Dalton. He wasn’t terrible for the Rams and would give us some insurance should McCarron be traded. He also would probably cost us nothing.

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While I don't think a player for pick trade is something we rush into. It might make sense for a player for player trade. Of the teams that might trade for McCarron here is what I came up with. It's not very pretty. 

Jets: Sheldon Richardson and Devin Smith

49ers: Torrey Smith 

Browns: No

Bills:Cyrus Kuandjio

Redskins:Trent Murphy

Texans:Jaelen STrong

Bears:Lamarr Houston or Pernell McPhee (Could be cap casualties)

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