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I hate the Patriots but anyone who thinks the Colts lost to the Patriots by 38 points because the football was missing a little air knows nothing about the sport.

Since my friend is the CEO of AMG Group I have to go with Mo Sanu and the Falcons.

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1 hour ago, SF2 said:

I hate the Patriots but anyone who thinks the Colts lost to the Patriots by 38 points because the football was missing a little air knows nothing about the sport.

 

The outcome of the game, nor the score, change anything. It's not about how many points the Colts lost by, the issue is that the Patriots were cheating.  I fail to understand how winning makes it ok? Again, if they didn't need to cheat to win, then why risk it?

Every other poster on here thinks they're some kind of football expert compared to everyone else so spare me the pissing contest.

 

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2 hours ago, SF2 said:

I hate the Patriots but anyone who thinks the Colts lost to the Patriots by 38 points because the football was missing a little air knows nothing about the sport.

Since my friend is the CEO of AMG Group I have to go with Mo Sanu and the Falcons.

And  anyone that thinks they only deflated balls in one game has no synapses firing.

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15 minutes ago, kennethmw said:

And  anyone that thinks they only deflated balls in one game has no synapses firing.

 

No need for all that.  I do agree it's only the one game in which they got caught but nobody much cares apparently.  Barry Bonds broke Maris's record by over 10HR so that proves his cheating didn't matter either, right?  

This must be that integrity Goodell is always talking about.

Anyway I'm fine with all this "tin foil hat" crap when the accuser's hero is sporting a tin foil crown. 

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They get away with things--on and off the field--because they make the NFL a boatload of dough.

The Stealers get away with things--on and off the field--because they make the NFL a boatload of dough.

All Favored Franchlses get away with things--on and off the field--because they make the NFL a boatload of dough.

Anyone see a common denominator? 

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13 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

The outcome of the game, nor the score, change anything. It's not about how many points the Colts lost by, the issue is that the Patriots were cheating.  I fail to understand how winning makes it ok? Again, if they didn't need to cheat to win, then why risk it?

Every other poster on here thinks they're some kind of football expert compared to everyone else so spare me the pissing contest.

 

You keep insinuating that others are missing the point, but I'm pretty sure you're missing ours/mine. I don't think 1 person has said that winning makes it OK. People are only pointing out the blowout win which the Colts were missing tackles and playing sloppy to hint that maybe 2 PSI in 1 football may not have been the biggest deal in the world. Yes, "cheating", but nobody has said it's OK because the team won. Nobody has said that. Stop.

1. There isn't even definitive proof that the ball was intentionally under inflated by Patriots personnel or staff. They're "pretty sure" they did it and that Tom Brady "probably" knew about it, so they suspended him.

2. It's a fucking witch hunt and the fact that the NFL got so many fans on their side with this is sad and hilarious at the same time. Deflategate will eventually go down as one of the biggest jokes in sports history. Anyone caught up in diminishing Brady's accomplishments due to this is a complete joke in my book and I refuse to respect their opinions regarding anything football related because of it. If you can't grasp a simple concept like this, then I couldn't give a shit what you think about other things football.

3. It's like if you were caught going 5 MPH over the speed limit and the officer pulled you over, threw you out of the car, slammed you on the ground, and the judge sent you to prison for 3 years for it. The punishment doesn't match the crime. You can't just throw everyone in the NFL that has "cheated" into 1 giant pile and say they're all pieces of shit and deserve their accomplishments diminished for it. Deflategate and Spygate are a joke compared to some of the actual cheating going on around the league. Hell, I'd say when an O-lineman "cheats" and gets away with holding on a big play has a bigger difference to the outcome of a game than 2 PSI in a fucking football. I'd respect your opinion more if you were bashing Rob Ninkovich for using PEDs instead of diminishing Bill and Tom for this witch hunt.

4. Be informed if you're going to argue something. You came into this not even know what happened during Spygate, yet you didn't give a shit and are still more than willing to diminish what Bill has done as a head coach. Your comment was something about them videotaping a practice and how that's not allowed. Well no shit, but that's not what happened during Spygate at all. You're claiming they're guilty without even seeing the evidence, and you don't want me to lump you in with the thousands of casual NFL fans that read headlines and bash the Patriots for it whether they're guilty or not? C'mon, man.

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You keep telling me how you don't respect my "football IQ" (LOL) like that is supposed to matter to me for some reason.

News Flash:  Everyone on here is an armchair QB/Coach/GM.  If any of us actually knew shit about shit we'd be working for an NFL franchise, or at least be Assistant Coach for East Bumblefuck High School's junior varsity. Well, we aren't, so let's drop this "I KNOWS MOAR ABOUT DER FUTBALLS!" stuff.  Nobody cares.

 

Quote

Deflategate and Spygate are a joke compared to some of the actual cheating going on around the league. Hell, I'd say when an O-lineman "cheats" and gets away with holding on a big play has a bigger difference to the outcome of a game than 2 PSI in a fucking football. I'd respect your opinion more if you were bashing Rob Ninkovich for using PEDs instead of diminishing Bill and Tom for this witch hunt.

 

This is called a "tu quoque fallacy" or appeal to hypocrisy. I've been seeing it an awful lot lately (I assume for reasons best left to the C&D forum).  Point being that other people cheating in what we may consider worse circumstances won't change the fact that the Pat's reputation has been tarnished.  IE, serial killers don't make drunk driving acceptable.

 

The question, if you recall, was whether BB is the greatest coach ever. My argument remains that there are better or equal coaches that didn't cheat. The extent or seriousness of his team's cheating isn't really relevant.  Paul Brown, Tom Landry, Lombardi..  If you want to call BB the best HC of the post-integrity, "sports entertainment" era I'd probably agree.  All time? Nope.  IMO there's more to greatness than simply winning percentage.

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I agree that the cheating accusations should be considered when evaluating Belichick record.  As we have seen from this pissing contest there are differing opinions as to how big of a deal this really is.  One thing I will note is that other NFL veterans, notably Jeff Blake, commented that deflating footballs wasn't uncommon or a big deal.  To me that suggests others have done it, but since other teams are sick of Belichick and the Patriots they called them out.  I'm sick of them too, but can't deny the incredible level of success they have achieved.  No doubt Belichick is one of the best coaches of all time.  He is also capable of being a flaming asshole, which influences many people's opinions.  

What would really impress me is seeing Belichick win a SB without Brady.  I can't think of a coach to win 2 SBs with different teams or without their dominant player.  Lombardi couldn't do it.  Parcells couldn't do it.  That would be the crowning achievement for a coach IMO.

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1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

This is called a "tu quoque fallacy" or appeal to hypocrisy. I've been seeing it an awful lot lately (I assume for reasons best left to the C&D forum).  Point being that other people cheating in what we may consider worse circumstances won't change the fact that the Pat's reputation has been tarnished.  IE, serial killers don't make drunk driving acceptable.

 

That's not what I was doing at all. I was simply pointing out the fact that some crimes are worse than others. IE, being a serial killer is infinitely worse than driving a few miles over the speed limit.

You're the one not understand what anyone is trying to say to you. I don't know how this can't be more clear. Deflategate is a JOKE. It will certainly go down in sports history as such.

Their reputation is tarnished because casual fans of the sport are obsessed with silly bullshit like Deflategate instead of focusing on shit that actually matters. IMO, PEDs as such are a much, much, much bigger deal in the sport than 2 PSI in a football.

It's not an appeal to hypocrisy, it's pointing out the obvious that some things in life are certainly worse than other, some being MUCH worse. How aren't you getting this? I'm not saying the Patriots never did anything wrong, but the butthurt that came with Deflategate is flat out hilarious and it's a total witch hunt and nothing more. They shouldn't have fucked with the football IF they actually did it, but it shouldn't tarnish Bill's 20+ year legacy as a great coach.

Are you really not capable of understanding how some crimes can be considered much worse than others? I don't understand how you think it's a logical fallacy to point out this simple fact. I don't think you fully understand my argument if you believe it's some kind of logical fallacy.

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10 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

That's not what I was doing at all. I was simply pointing out the fact that some crimes are worse than others. IE, being a serial killer is infinitely worse than driving a few miles over the speed limit.

You're the one not understand what anyone is trying to say to you. I don't know how this can't be more clear. Deflategate is a JOKE. It will certainly go down in sports history as such.

Their reputation is tarnished because casual fans of the sport are obsessed with silly bullshit like Deflategate instead of focusing on shit that actually matters. IMO, PEDs as such are a much, much, much bigger deal in the sport than 2 PSI in a football.

It's not an appeal to hypocrisy, it's pointing out the obvious that some things in life are certainly worse than other, some being MUCH worse. How aren't you getting this? I'm not saying the Patriots never did anything wrong, but the butthurt that came with Deflategate is flat out hilarious and it's a total witch hunt and nothing more. They shouldn't have fucked with the football IF they actually did it, but it shouldn't tarnish Bill's 20+ year legacy as a great coach.

Are you really not capable of understanding how some crimes can be considered much worse than others? I don't understand how you think it's a logical fallacy to point out this simple fact. I don't think you fully understand my argument if you believe it's some kind of logical fallacy.

 

Of course some crimes are worse than others, the fallacy is in thinking that those worse crimes somehow excuse the lesser.  The 70's Stealers using steroids etc etc isn't at all relevant.  I don't think anyone's made the argument that BB only wins because of cheating.  He did something that is against the rules because he thought he could get away with it and it would give him an advantage.  You don't think that should matter - I disagree.  Sure it's not Tomlin tripping a kick returner on the sideline but it counts. Now, if you want to say that the NFL allowing Tomlin to get away with that & the countless other things they choose to ignore destroys any credibility the league has as a governing body, or even creates an environment where championship teams are going to constantly test the limits of what they can get away with? 100% yes & that's the root of the problem.

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47 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Of course some crimes are worse than others, the fallacy is in thinking that those worse crimes somehow excuse the lesser.  The 70's Stealers using steroids etc etc isn't at all relevant.  I don't think anyone's made the argument that BB only wins because of cheating.  He did something that is against the rules because he thought he could get away with it and it would give him an advantage.  You don't think that should matter - I disagree.  Sure it's not Tomlin tripping a kick returner on the sideline but it counts. Now, if you want to say that the NFL allowing Tomlin to get away with that & the countless other things they choose to ignore destroys any credibility the league has as a governing body, or even creates an environment where championship teams are going to constantly test the limits of what they can get away with? 100% yes & that's the root of the problem.

My entire point has been that Bill and the Patriots have been labeled the leagues "cheaters" and get their accomplishments diminished because of it, but I don't feel they've been deserving of the punishments nor the cheating reputation surrounding the organization.

Have they broken the rules? Technically, yes. I just don't feel the punishments fit the crime in almost every case involving the Patriots. Even though they're viewed as one of the "league favorites" by most people, they continue to get much more harsh punishments for silly crimes while those doing much worse go with lesser punishment or even none at all. But again, I'm not excusing their cheating with the reasoning that other people cheat worse, I'm excusing Deflategate specifically because it's ABSURD that it was a big deal to begin with. At least Spygate was an obvious cheat, I just don't see it as a big deal since recording signals during a game is perfectly legal, Belichick just used poor judgment and did it from their sideline instead of the area where it's allowed.

I'm not saying that you didn't break the law for trespassing on someone's property or that it's OK even though you broke the law since you didn't kill somebody, I'm only saying that you shouldn't be labeled a criminal for life because your crime doesn't warrant that stigma. Brady and Belichick were involved in 2 "crimes" that are, IN MY EYES, closer to driving 5 MPH over the speed limit rather than armed robbery, but the league and fans around the NFL ruled on them in a much more extreme manner. No logical fallacy, I just don't believe the crimes are worth the punishment and stigma, that's pretty much the basis of my thoughts on it.

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^ as far as the NFL choosing to scapegoat someone rather than address problems in a consistent, effective manner? Preaching to the choir on that one.

Goodell is well-practiced in CYA.  That's all the "conduct policy" etc amounts to, anyway.

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16 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Mo Sanu abandoned the Bengals.  Fuck him.  I hope that a rat bites him on the dick.

The Bengals abandoned him by not paying him his market value.

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6 hours ago, SF2 said:

The Bengals abandoned him by not paying him his market value.

Of course you can always look at it this way.

 

But if you do I hope a rat bites you on the dick also.

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7 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Of course you can always look at it this way.

 

But if you do I hope a rat bites you on the dick also.

Fair enough. Its a business and this is most likely Sanu's only big contract he will sign in his LIFE.  Gotta get as much as you can as it only takes one injury to end what is usually a very very short career.

If he had already signed one big contract here and he was on a second, I might agree with you but that is not the case. 

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9 hours ago, Jpoore said:


I'm sorry but u think a career average of 30 yards per game is worth a 5 year 32.5 million dollar contract?

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app
 

That's assuming Sanu would have played the same role of in coming years.  With the departure of Jones his role would have increased and that simple analysis of 30ypg for $6.5M a year would not apply.  The Falcons valued him higher and he did pretty well as the #2 guy in Atlanta.  

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31 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

That's assuming Sanu would have played the same role of in coming years.  With the departure of Jones his role would have increased and that simple analysis of 30ypg for $6.5M a year would not apply.  The Falcons valued him higher and he did pretty well as the #2 guy in Atlanta.  

 

All speculation & 20/20 hindsight in this thread, but.. I don't think he was trusted to be a #2 here.  It's also hard to say how much of a role they saw for him since Eifert was penciled in as the de facto #2 WR himself & other true WR's on the roster that are young, promising, and still under contract.

That being said, ATL recognized his potential and he's making the most of the opportunity. I hope he fucks NE up tonight.

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That's assuming Sanu would have played the same role of in coming years.  With the departure of Jones his role would have increased and that simple analysis of 30ypg for $6.5M a year would not apply.  The Falcons valued him higher and he did pretty well as the #2 guy in Atlanta.  

While he would have had an increased role don't Think it would have helped... When he was the number 1 couple years back didn't play great either.... I'm a fan of sanu but not for 6.5 million.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

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While Marvin does have his issues, especially during games, he isn't the only problem with this franchise. While PB had winning in his DNA not sure his son shares the same drive. I think he wants to win but isn't committed to win. Also, Belichick isn't probably one of the best coaches of all time he may also go down as one of the best general managers of all time. He is willing to make whatever changes he feels are necessary to get them to the SB each year. He knows how to do it organizationally as well as financially, not sure you can say that about MB. It would be interesting to hear what ML really thinks about what MB decisions that are made. TO and Chad probably are decisions that drove ML crazy but MB wanted them and that was that. Free agent decisions that MB has made that ML was committed to versus what he had to live with would be interesting discussions to have with ML if he would say what he really thinks. Hopefully Katie has a more determined outlook on winning than her father.

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53 minutes ago, Jpoore said:


While he would have had an increased role don't Think it would have helped... When he was the number 1 couple years back didn't play great either.... I'm a fan of sanu but not for 6.5 million.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app
 

Fair enough.  I just didn't dig your reasoning.  If you, and the Bengals, didn't believe in him that's the reason.  I will say he would have been an upgrade on LaFell and the rookie.  I know LaFell's stats were better, but I'm not a fan of his game.  There is a reason he was a big disappointment in Carolina and New England didn't keep him.  Frankly, if the Patriots dump a player teams should be very suspicious.

At this point it would be foolish to consider Eifert a #2 receiver because he can't stay healthy and in the lineup.  

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Fair enough.  I just didn't dig your reasoning.  If you, and the Bengals, didn't believe in him that's the reason.  I will say he would have been an upgrade on LaFell and the rookie.  I know LaFell's stats were better, but I'm not a fan of his game.  There is a reason he was a big disappointment in Carolina and New England didn't keep him.  Frankly, if the Patriots dump a player teams should be very suspicious.
At this point it would be foolish to consider Eifert a #2 receiver because he can't stay healthy and in the lineup.  

I agree completely. I hated lafell when we got him and he did nothing to prove me wrong. He had 4 games with a combined, COMBINED 32 yards. That's garbage. He also had something in the range of 360 yards in first 10 games. It's why I've been a huge supporter if drafting Mike Williams with the 1st pick. He would be the number 2 and be groomed to take over the number 1 in a couple years as an gets older. A attack of green, Williams, boyd, and eifert would be deadly.

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1 hour ago, UncleEarl said:

 

At this point it would be foolish to consider Eifert a #2 receiver because he can't stay healthy and in the lineup.  

 

Agreed, it's shitty but that's the game.  We've got depth at TE and hopefully Eifert gets well.

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