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WR Group for the Future

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WRAPradio    228

Looking at our WR corps going forward and some things have me a little nervous.  AJ will be 29 before the season starts, Tyler Boyd will be a 2nd year player who seems like a solid #2.  After that, we have nothing.  We have some potential in guys like Cody Core and Alex Erickson, but nothing you'd bet your house on.  Should we think about drafting Mike Williams or Cory Davis considering we may only have one or two more "Prime AJ" years left and we'll need a #1 WR?  Or do we go the Patriots/Seahawks route and just get guys that are really good at specific things and have no "great" WR and spend that money on other parts of the team?  Do we pray a great receiver is available as a FA in the next few years and go out of character and pay that guy?  How do you think we should address this position going forward?

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omgdrdoom    313

Re-sign/sign a veteran ala LaFell for a 2-3 year deal instead of just a single year contract and we should be good for a little while to take mid - later round draft picks and hope one develops in a couple years or else we'll have to grab a WR in the 1st or 2nd in 2018-2010 sometime.

I don't think it's a smart strategy to base a big part of your offseason assuming that your players are going to get injured for the upcoming year, so you have to build around who your penciled in starters are. When Eifert and Gio are healthy, our next WR past A.J., vet #2, and Boyd ends up being the 6th receiving option for Andy. See targets in 2015 as an example. Core and Erickson types are fine when they're your 5th, 6th, or 7th receiving option.

We don't have the Patriots QB or coaching staff, so we can't really go their route. Every team in the NFL would do that if it were that simple.

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LostInDaJungle    463

WR has always been a revolving door. If you're looking 2-3 years down the road... You have to go back to 2007 to find a year we didn't draft at least 1 WR.

A.J. is signed for another 3 years already. Any first round pick is going to get 4 years with a 5th year option. Little early to be buying insurance. 

After Boyd we have nothing? I'll respectfully disagree. No NFL team has the luxury of filling all 5 WR spots with superstars.

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omgdrdoom    313
6 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

After Boyd we have nothing? I'll respectfully disagree. No NFL team has the luxury of filling all 5 WR spots with superstars.

Especially when you consider our TE1 and RB2 (could be argued as RB1) are actually our 2nd and 3rd receiving options, 4th at worst, when the offense is healthy. We're talking about guys that are going to see >20% of the offensive snaps if they're lucky AND if there are injuries.

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WRAPradio    228
45 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

WR has always been a revolving door. If you're looking 2-3 years down the road... You have to go back to 2007 to find a year we didn't draft at least 1 WR.

A.J. is signed for another 3 years already. Any first round pick is going to get 4 years with a 5th year option. Little early to be buying insurance. 

After Boyd we have nothing? I'll respectfully disagree. No NFL team has the luxury of filling all 5 WR spots with superstars.

 

I agree that we can't fill all five or six spots with stars, but assuming Mike Williams or C. Davis are the highest on our board when it gets to our pick, would you be opposed at drafting one of them?

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LostInDaJungle    463
3 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

 

I agree that we can't fill all five or six spots with stars, but assuming Mike Williams or C. Davis are the highest on our board when it gets to our pick, would you be opposed at drafting one of them?

Depends on who else is on the board. Do I think that WR is such a pressing need that we have to use our first round pick on one? No.

I have no objection to taking either if they're the BPA, but I wouldn't target them or reach for them. Of the two, Williams would be the best compliment across the field from AJ. Kinda like the Johnson/Housh days.

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WRAPradio    228
26 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Depends on who else is on the board. Do I think that WR is such a pressing need that we have to use our first round pick on one? No.

I have no objection to taking either if they're the BPA, but I wouldn't target them or reach for them. Of the two, Williams would be the best compliment across the field from AJ. Kinda like the Johnson/Housh days.

Agreed, I think we have more pressing needs than WR, it's just one of those position groups that we look up in two years and wonder what happened.  I don't expect us to be picking in the top-10 again for the next few years so I'm hoping management is at least thinking about this; and I'm sure they are.  If Davis and Williams were rated the highest on our board when we're on the clock, I'm thinking I'd want to go with Davis.  He seems more like a big play guy that can get those YAC yards...he's not Juilo Jones, but he's more in that mold IMO.  Williams reminds me more of Keyshawn Johnson or Brandon Marshall, he's not going to beat you with speed, but he'll make the contested catch.  I don't think he separates as well as Brandon Marshall, but it seems like he knows how to use his body.  Admittedly I'm no expert and most of this comes from watching YouTube and Draftbreakdown, but Corey Davis to me seems like he's got a little more potential to be a big play guy in the League. 

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SocalBengalEd    559

Didn't we just witness the Patriots win another superbowl with a bunch of undrafted wrs.   We should be at the bottom of our needs. 

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WRAPradio    228
14 minutes ago, SocalBengalEd said:

Didn't we just witness the Patriots win another superbowl with a bunch of undrafted wrs.   We should be at the bottom of our needs. 

I agree with that, but how much of that has to do with having Tom Brady?  Not to turn this into an Andy Dalton thread, but do we think Andy could do the same thing with that group of offensive weapons?  To be fair, Atlanta should have won that game and they have Julio (a true #1), Sanu (who played better in ATL than he did here...maybe due to Matt Ryan??) and 2 really good RBs.  On top of that, probably the best center in the league.  So there are multiple schools of thought on how to build a team.

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LostInDaJungle    463
15 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

I agree with that, but how much of that has to do with having Tom Brady?  Not to turn this into an Andy Dalton thread, but do we think Andy could do the same thing with that group of offensive weapons?  To be fair, Atlanta should have won that game and they have Julio (a true #1), Sanu (who played better in ATL than he did here...maybe due to Matt Ryan??) and 2 really good RBs.  On top of that, probably the best center in the league.  So there are multiple schools of thought on how to build a team.

Why not ask the guy who played with both of them?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/16231202/brandon-lafell-cincinnati-bengals-says-andy-dalton-similar-tom-brady

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Le Tigre    1,865

Not trying to be contentious, but I still shake my head at the nervousness fans display when a player hits 30. Every position is different of course as to longevity, but WR is one position where many players have played at very productive levels well into their 30's (and by "well into", I am looking at between 30-34). With the athlete AJ is, barring injuries, he could easily play at a high level that far IMO.

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WRAPradio    228
20 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

I don't want anything lost in translation here, because Brandon Lafell is saying his current QB, Andy Dalton, is SIMILAR to Tom Brady, are you insinuating that AD is near or on the same level as TB?  I know you didn't directly say that, but based on your response it sounds like you would build around AD the same way you would build around TB.  If that's the case I would totally disagree.

While I think AD is a good QB, I think he needs a lot of help to get a team to the mountain top.  There aren't many QBs ever that can do what Brady has done...and that's no knock on Andy at all.

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WRAPradio    228
10 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Not trying to be contentious, but I still shake my head at the nervousness fans display when a player hits 30. Every position is different of course as to longevity, but WR is one position where many players have played at very productive levels well into their 30's (and by "well into", I am looking at between 30-34). With the athlete AJ is, barring injuries, he could easily play at a high level that far IMO.

I get that, but there's also a lot of examples of WRs and CBs falling off of the cliff around 30.  I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but as they say, Father Time is undefeated.  AJ could have another 5 great years, and that would be awesome...I just wouldn't bet the farm.  As people get older they get injured more and injuries take a little longer to heal.  

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LostInDaJungle    463
2 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

I don't want anything lost in translation here, because Brandon Lafell is saying his current QB, Andy Dalton, is SIMILAR to Tom Brady, are you insinuating that AD is near or on the same level as TB?  I know you didn't directly say that, but based on your response it sounds like you would build around AD the same way you would build around TB.  If that's the case I would totally disagree.

While I think AD is a good QB, I think he needs a lot of help to get a team to the mountain top.  There aren't many QBs ever that can do what Brady has done...and that's no knock on Andy at all.

Football is still a team game. To give all of the credit to Brady for his success ignores how well the Pats have done in the front office. How their system made problem children like Moss and Dillon buy in to the team concept.

Brady has been a great QB, but he also has had a great system and coach. He's had a very good defense around him. He's had videotape of the Jet's signals.

Dalton was the guy who went to the Pro-Bowl when Brady didn't. If you're implying that Andy is some mediocre QB who has to have talent around him to succeed, you're underrating Dalton.

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omgdrdoom    313
2 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Dalton was the guy who went to the Pro-Bowl when Brady didn't. If you're implying that Andy is some mediocre QB who has to have talent around him to succeed, you're underrating Dalton.

Andy is a good QB but he has to have talent around him to really succeed. No QB does it by himself. Some more than others, but Andy definitely needs some help and it's not bashing him to point that out.

There aren't many Aaron Rodgers out there, just a handful in the history of the league. It's really rare to see almost any QB have a great year without also seeing some combination of great WR/TE/RB/line play around him.

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WRAPradio    228
3 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Football is still a team game. To give all of the credit to Brady for his success ignores how well the Pats have done in the front office. How their system made problem children like Moss and Dillon buy in to the team concept.

Brady has been a great QB, but he also has had a great system and coach. He's had a very good defense around him. He's had videotape of the Jet's signals.

Dalton was the guy who went to the Pro-Bowl when Brady didn't. If you're implying that Andy is some mediocre QB who has to have talent around him to succeed, you're underrating Dalton.

There's no doubt Brady has benefited from the system and coach, but that guy is clutch.  From a talent perspective, he's probably played with the least amount of talent than any other great QB in the history of the NFL.  Outside of Randy Moss has he ever played with a top-10 WR?  Me thinking that Andy needs weapons to be great isn't underrating Andy, it's a true statement for 95% of the QBs in the league.  Your Tom Brady's and Aaron Rodgers' of the world are rare talents and you don't build a team around them the same way you do around lesser QBs.  Again, me saying Andy is a lesser QB isn't a slight to Andy at all...i think even he would agree he's not on the same level as those other two QBs.

 

With that being said, I don't think WR is out of the question at #9 if the Foster, Thomas, Allen, Barnett and Garrett are all gone.  It wouldn't surprise me if we went with Fournette or Cook either. 

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happyrid    1,152
3 hours ago, SocalBengalEd said:

Didn't we just witness the Patriots win another superbowl with a bunch of undrafted wrs.   We should be at the bottom of our needs. 

And a 6th round QB, and undrafted top CB, a bunch of random vets across the front 7 on D, mostly mid-round picks at OL, etc.

Basing strategy off of what was successful for Belichick is a fool's errand IMO. 

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Jpoore    29
Looking at our WR corps going forward and some things have me a little nervous.  AJ will be 29 before the season starts, Tyler Boyd will be a 2nd year player who seems like a solid #2.  After that, we have nothing.  We have some potential in guys like Cody Core and Alex Erickson, but nothing you'd bet your house on.  Should we think about drafting Mike Williams or Cory Davis considering we may only have one or two more "Prime AJ" years left and we'll need a #1 WR?  Or do we go the Patriots/Seahawks route and just get guys that are really good at specific things and have no "great" WR and spend that money on other parts of the team?  Do we pray a great receiver is available as a FA in the next few years and go out of character and pay that guy?  How do you think we should address this position going forward?

I have been saying we should draft Williams for the last 2 months. Williams would be the 2 first 2-3 Years, then start taking over the 1. By the time his rookie deal is done aj would be 34

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Jpoore    29
Depends on who else is on the board. Do I think that WR is such a pressing need that we have to use our first round pick on one? No.

I have no objection to taking either if they're the BPA, but I wouldn't target them or reach for them. Of the two, Williams would be the best compliment across the field from AJ. Kinda like the Johnson/Housh days.

I would liken it more to Marvin Harrisson and Reggie Wayne.

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Jpoore    29
Agreed, I think we have more pressing needs than WR, it's just one of those position groups that we look up in two years and wonder what happened.  I don't expect us to be picking in the top-10 again for the next few years so I'm hoping management is at least thinking about this; and I'm sure they are.  If Davis and Williams were rated the highest on our board when we're on the clock, I'm thinking I'd want to go with Davis.  He seems more like a big play guy that can get those YAC yards...he's not Juilo Jones, but he's more in that mold IMO.  Williams reminds me more of Keyshawn Johnson or Brandon Marshall, he's not going to beat you with speed, but he'll make the contested catch.  I don't think he separates as well as Brandon Marshall, but it seems like he knows how to use his body.  Admittedly I'm no expert and most of this comes from watching YouTube and Draftbreakdown, but Corey Davis to me seems like he's got a little more potential to be a big play guy in the League. 

Mike Williams is comparable to Keenan Allen while Corey Davis is comparable to Micheal Thomas. Imo Keenan Allen without the injuries is a top 12 receiver in the NFL. So we would have 2 top 12 receivers on the same team. Williams is the most elite at getting late separation. Have never seen a receiver get more separation than Williams does when the ball is in the air.

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Jpoore    29
I agree with that, but how much of that has to do with having Tom Brady?  Not to turn this into an Andy Dalton thread, but do we think Andy could do the same thing with that group of offensive weapons?  To be fair, Atlanta should have won that game and they have Julio (a true #1), Sanu (who played better in ATL than he did here...maybe due to Matt Ryan??) and 2 really good RBs.  On top of that, probably the best center in the league.  So there are multiple schools of thought on how to build a team.

It's more belecheck than Brady

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Jpoore    29
Not trying to be contentious, but I still shake my head at the nervousness fans display when a player hits 30. Every position is different of course as to longevity, but WR is one position where many players have played at very productive levels well into their 30's (and by "well into", I am looking at between 30-34). With the athlete AJ is, barring injuries, he could easily play at a high level that far IMO.

I mean Brandon Marshall is. 32 and 1 year removed from 1500 yards

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T-Dub    5,812

Other than a 2nd deep threat I'd say WR is the deepest position group we have.  McCo0ter trade considered.

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