Bengals want Leonard Fournette, per NFL Network

[T-Dub]

39 minutes ago, CoachMinich said:

But group gets worse if they lose top two players

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Or if their coaching sucks.  Or both.

[CoachMinich]

 
Or if their coaching sucks.  Or both.

The last time our OL was a year behind in its development it screwed up Carson Palmer's head and forced him out the door

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[|kennethmw|]

38 minutes ago, CoachMinich said:

But group gets worse if they lose top two players

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I don't expect Whit to go anywhere, and I don't expect status Quo at RG.  

[T-Dub]

Just now, CoachMinich said:

The last time our OL was a year behind in its development it screwed up Carson Palmer's head and forced him out the door

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Eh..  Let's just say the reason for Carson leaving is debatable and leave it at that.

Generally speaking I have very little faith in the Bengals coaches, if any.  The lack of discipline, preparedness, accountability.. I suspect the players have tuned out. It's a problem that's not going away.

[|kennethmw|]

1 minute ago, CoachMinich said:

The last time our OL was a year behind in its development it screwed up Carson Palmer's head and forced him out the door

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The Quitters head was screwed up by his little head and his wife's head, not his line.

[CoachMinich]

In either event, he could have been a top QB and we let him get screwed up

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[T-Dub]

 

 

Point being the Bengals OL has consistently gotten worse.   It's been an issue since back when Porter's goons mangled Levi's rehabbing knee.  Hey remind me, how many games was Porter suspended for after being caught on camera mugging someone?

Anyway to bring this somewhat back to topic,  I'd hate to see some flashy offensive skill guy drafted over an equally-rated pass rusher.

[LostInDaJungle]

Well, the Jets have announced that they're looking to trade down. It would the the most non-Mike Brown thing ever, but it's possible that if Fournette is there at #5 we could offer our 3rd round pick to move up.

[Madieu Superstar]

46 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Well, the Jets have announced that they're looking to trade down. It would the the most non-Mike Brown thing ever, but it's possible that if Fournette is there at #5 we could offer our 3rd round pick to move up.

Now we're moving up for a RB who couldn't run against the best defense in college football, while we continue to have a poor run-blocking O-Line? Makes sense. 

[LostInDaJungle]

5 hours ago, Madieu Superstar said:

who couldn't run against the best defense in college football

Hyperbole like that really tends to completely invalidate any point worth responding to.

[Jpoore]

You are absolutely right, but also have need inside particularly if we lose Zeitler and Whitworth (played guard too)
Pocic and Dorian Johnson possibilities in 2nd and maybe 3rd
I'd like to see pass rusher in 1st

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Would rather have elflien. Hes more elite at multiple positions than pocic. Pass rusher i dont see who.

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[Jpoore]

 
Eh..  Let's just say the reason for Carson leaving is debatable and leave it at that.
Generally speaking I have very little faith in the Bengals coaches, if any.  The lack of discipline, preparedness, accountability.. I suspect the players have tuned out. It's a problem that's not going away.

Besides urban right? Say what u will about the other position coaches but urban knows how to get the most out of his recievers.

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[Jpoore]

Hyperbole like that really tends to completely invalidate any point worth responding to.

Not really. Its a valid point. Bama and buckeyes have the 2 most nfl ready defenses. The sec has really gone downhill in recent years besides bama which is why fournette has looked so dominant. But when he has gone up against legit defenses, he has not looked food. Its why saquan barkley is a much better prospect than fournette is when he comesout next year and why zeke is so much better than fournette. They play in the big ten where every year u have buckeyes, michigian, penn state, wisconson, michigian state, and some years nebraska. Zeke and barkley due it against elite defenses, fournette dosent.

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[omgdrdoom]

13 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Well, the Jets have announced that they're looking to trade down. It would the the most non-Mike Brown thing ever, but it's possible that if Fournette is there at #5 we could offer our 3rd round pick to move up.

1. I think it would cost more than a 3rd judging by draft calculator "value" and also looking at trades that have happened in recent years in the first round. Not much apples to apples to look at though, but I'm just not sure a 3rd would get it done and I wouldn't want to lose more than that.

2. If they trade up to take a running back with one of the worst run blocking lines in football, then LOL. Why on earth would you want that to happen? Why are people wanting a round 1 RB so badly? I don't get it at all.

[akiliMVP]

16 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

2. If they trade up to take a running back with one of the worst run blocking lines in football, then LOL. Why on earth would you want that to happen? Why are people wanting a round 1 RB so badly? I don't get it at all.

I'm not huge on taking a RB #9 but I get it. Hill is average at best. Gio will be out awhile and has never been an every down back. Fournette has the potential to be one of the top backs in the NFL.

There are no guards or centers worthy of the #9 pick. You build the line in the 2nd round on and through FA. 

I would rather take a RB later for sure. This draft is quite deep in RB talent.

[omgdrdoom]

24 minutes ago, akiliMVP said:

I'm not huge on taking a RB #9 but I get it. Hill is average at best. Gio will be out awhile and has never been an every down back. Fournette has the potential to be one of the top backs in the NFL.

There are no guards or centers worthy of the #9 pick. You build the line in the 2nd round on and through FA. 

I would rather take a RB later for sure. This draft is quite deep in RB talent.

That's why I want to trade down and not up. With our immediate needs, I don't like us picking at #9 this year. Trade your 1st rounder down, get some extra picks in the 2nd-4th, then trade up in the mid rounds to get talent that you really want since we don't need 11+ picks total. I think that would be a favorable strategy for this particular draft class with our position.

I do see the need for a RB since Hill has looked mediocre or worse as of late. I'm just not sure Barry Sanders would be running well behind the Bengals current o-line, especially if you consider our best run blocker is looking all but gone at this point. I guess I'm looking at it from the sense that we need to beef up our o-line and work on some spots on defense, but just because there isn't the perfect prospect at #9 doesn't mean we shouldn't explore options to get more high round picks instead of doing something crazy like trading up for a running back to get hit behind the line of scrimmage every down.

[spicoli]

can't trade down if you don't have a trading partner, it takes two to tango after all.

if they're staying at 9 like I believe they will, they just need to take the best player available to them.....I don't care if that player is a CB, a RB or a TE, just take the top guy on your board and don't reach for someone (OT) simply to fill a need.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, akiliMVP said:

I'm not huge on taking a RB #9 but I get it. Hill is average at best. Gio will be out awhile and has never been an every down back. Fournette has the potential to be one of the top backs in the NFL.

There are no tackles, guards or centers worthy of the #9 pick. You build the line in the 2nd round on and through FA. 

I would rather take a RB later for sure. This draft is quite deep in RB talent.

Fixt.

[Jamie_B]

Please don't trade up. I'm 'meh about taking a RB this early but I don't hate it either. Just don't want to trade up to do it, we have plenty of needs if the RB is there and we want him do it, but don't give up picks to do it when you can get top talent at other needed positions too and not give up picks to do it.

[LostInDaJungle]

1 hour ago, omgdrdoom said:

That's why I want to trade down and not up. With our immediate needs, I don't like us picking at #9 this year. Trade your 1st rounder down, get some extra picks in the 2nd-4th, then trade up in the mid rounds to get talent that you really want since we don't need 11+ picks total. I think that would be a favorable strategy for this particular draft class with our position.

I do see the need for a RB since Hill has looked mediocre or worse as of late. I'm just not sure Barry Sanders would be running well behind the Bengals current o-line, especially if you consider our best run blocker is looking all but gone at this point. I guess I'm looking at it from the sense that we need to beef up our o-line and work on some spots on defense, but just because there isn't the perfect prospect at #9 doesn't mean we shouldn't explore options to get more high round picks instead of doing something crazy like trading up for a running back to get hit behind the line of scrimmage every down.

1) We don't have that many holes to fill. We have 11 picks, and only a few roster spots that are open. So we could trade down, but do we need an extra third or fourth rounder? We could trade up in later rounds, but that's also when the odds of finding a quality guy go through the floor. I'd rather have 1 Fournette than 10 Khalid Abdullah's or Adam Kieft's.

2) #9 is an awkward spot in the draft this year. There's not a lot of guys to get excited about at #9 with the way the draft is playing out and our positions of need.

3) Because #9 is an awkward spot, not a lot of teams are going to be looking to trade up.

4) You're going to have to draft your o-line in the later rounds or pick up guys in FA... Why not get the big bell-cow back in the first?

5) Jeremy Hill is on his last contract year. Do you want to pay the guy next year? 

6) PFF has our O-Line ranked at #13 for 2016. I don't think it's as terrible as everyone likes to think.

 

[Jason]

The problem with trading up in 1 is it takes a 2 to do it.  And there are too many guys I like in 2.  

[LostInDaJungle]

Just now, Jason said:

The problem with trading up in 1 is it takes a 2 to do it.  And there are too many guys I like in 2.  

If you look at the "Pick Value Chart", trading a 1 and a 3 to move up to #5 favors the Bengals by ~100 points. I'm not saying we should go all Mike Ditka on this. If Tennesee is willing to trade the pick at a ~%5 discount, it's worth investigating. I also think that this is NOT going to happen, because this is Mike Brown we're talking about.

Also, a poor showing by the Top QB's at the combine might just get us the second rounder we've been seeking for McCarron. IMHO, my dream would be to offer the 49'ers McCarron for their second round pick. I'd even throw in some 6th or 7th round picks to make it happen. Use the 2 picks in the second to draft C and OG.

IF the Bengals truly want Fournette, they're going to have to trade up. In hindsight, would you have said "Nah, it's not worth trading up for Adrian Peterson or Zeke Elliott"?

[Jamie_B]

Whenever you are drafting in the top 10 you have more holes to fill than fans might want to admit.

IMO we need LB, CB, a 3rd S, and a pass rusher be it at LB or DE. On O we need WR #2 (I am on the Boyd Bandwagon, as a replacement for Sanu...we still need a deep threat) OG, possibly C, and RB.

 

[omgdrdoom]

42 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

1) We don't have that many holes to fill. We have 11 picks, and only a few roster spots that are open. So we could trade down, but do we need an extra third or fourth rounder? We could trade up in later rounds, but that's also when the odds of finding a quality guy go through the floor. I'd rather have 1 Fournette than 10 Khalid Abdullah's or Adam Kieft's.

2) #9 is an awkward spot in the draft this year. There's not a lot of guys to get excited about at #9 with the way the draft is playing out and our positions of need.

3) Because #9 is an awkward spot, not a lot of teams are going to be looking to trade up.

4) You're going to have to draft your o-line in the later rounds or pick up guys in FA... Why not get the big bell-cow back in the first?

5) Jeremy Hill is on his last contract year. Do you want to pay the guy next year? 

6) PFF has our O-Line ranked at #13 for 2016. I don't think it's as terrible as everyone likes to think.

 

1. We have many holes to fill it just depends on who the team plans to fill them with. I consider players like Maualuga as bad enough to lump in "holes to fill", I'm not speaking only of empty roster spaces. I definitely agree that we're stocked up on picks though, I wouldn't mind seeing them trade up at some point, but not to get a running back.

2. Agreed.

3. True, but the needs of other teams vary greatly from ours. Maybe someone would be interested in moving up depending on who is actually available come draft day. I'm not saying to plan on 100% to trade down on draft day because you may not have the opportunity, but it should at least be an option.

4. I'm not totally against a RB high, I just don't like the idea of trading up to get one so much.

5. No, I don't think he's very good.

6. I don't like to use any single source to formulate my opinions, and definitely not PFF's after they changed their grading system to be glorified Madden stats. However, I do put some stock into their opinions as they analyze every player for every team and I respect that quite a bit. Do you happen to know if that rating is for pass blocking, run blocking, or both? I'm pretty sure they also have Zeitler as our #1 run blocker, and I'm also pretty sure he's going to be gone. The run blocking is every bit as bad as most fans think. The Bengals ranked below average in YPC and we were close to being the absolute worst team in the league at getting RBs to the second level last season. I believe our pass blocking was definitely better than most fans think, but our run blocking was atrocious. Why waste resources trading up for a guy that's going to get consistently killed behind the LOS? I'm not even thrilled with taking a RB in the first round, and much less if we're using a 2nd or 3rd round pick to obtain one.

[omgdrdoom]

10 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

If you look at the "Pick Value Chart", trading a 1 and a 3 to move up to #5 favors the Bengals by ~100 points. I'm not saying we should go all Mike Ditka on this. If Tennesee is willing to trade the pick at a ~%5 discount, it's worth investigating. I also think that this is NOT going to happen, because this is Mike Brown we're talking about.

Also, a poor showing by the Top QB's at the combine might just get us the second rounder we've been seeking for McCarron. IMHO, my dream would be to offer the 49'ers McCarron for their second round pick. I'd even throw in some 6th or 7th round picks to make it happen. Use the 2 picks in the second to draft C and OG.

IF the Bengals truly want Fournette, they're going to have to trade up. In hindsight, would you have said "Nah, it's not worth trading up for Adrian Peterson or Zeke Elliott"?

There are other draft value calculators that show you need more than an early 3rd rounder to get to #5 from #9. There's no 100% accurate end all formula, but just pointing out if you use the exact pick numbers, more sources say it won't happen for our 1st & 3rd than sources that do.

I'd trade McCarron for o-line help in a heartbeat, sign me up for an extra 2nd for the line.

With our current state of the offensive line, yes, even in hindsight I think it's silly to trade for those backs. Elliott doesn't have his 2016 campaign with the Bengals line. However, Jeremy Hill could likely light the league up if he were on the Cowboys. Our line sucks at run blocking and we're about to lose our best run blocker. I don't think Zeke or Fournette magically fixes that.