MichaelWeston

Possibilities at 9

450 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

Moch didn't seem to be that hard of a worker or take practice seriously

You should follow the dude on Twitter. I can tell you he at least takes his workouts very seriously. Dude is still jacked.

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1 minute ago, LostInDaJungle said:

You should follow the dude on Twitter. I can tell you he at least takes his workouts very seriously. Dude is still jacked.

Working out with weights is one thing, working hard to learn a defense and a new position is something else. Maybe he had a learning disability or something but you would think with that athletic ability and the 4 NFL teams that signed him he would have had a better career.

He couldn't learn how to play LB in the NFL at a high enough level to make it despite being one of the best athletes in the league. 

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Just now, PatternMaster said:

Working out with weights is one thing, working hard to learn a defense and a new position is something else. Maybe he had a learning disability or something but you would think with that athletic ability and the 4 NFL teams that signed him he would have had a better career.

He couldn't learn how to play LB in the NFL at a high enough level to make it despite being one of the best athletes in the league. 

Indeed. And it doesn't look like he has a fear of hard work. Hmmm...

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8 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

Moch is a hell of an athlete, but injuries and PED's derailed his development. Moch didn't seem to be that hard of a worker or take practice seriously because he never developed despite his physical gifts. 

The physical comparison is apt, but think Reddick's work ethic and attitude is better than Moch's. Based on how he responded to NFL coaches at the Senior Bowl and the feedback from the coaches, scouts, and media people at the event he was the best defensive player there. He took to the coaching and had a "can do" attitude, why wouldn't you want someone like that on your football team. 

Moch wasn't good even when healthy.  He is healthy now and he isn't good.  All you know about Reddick's work ethic is that he had a good week of practice at the Senior Bowl playing against a bunch of 2nd and 3rd day picks.

And Reddick plead guilty to breaking the orbital bone of a fellow Temple student's face (after charges were reduced from a felony) so pump the breaks on your assurances that he is the worlds greatest guy.  I don't want him on my football team.

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1 hour ago, BlackBengal said:

Moch wasn't good even when healthy.  He is healthy now and he isn't good.  All you know about Reddick's work ethic is that he had a good week of practice at the Senior Bowl playing against a bunch of 2nd and 3rd day picks.

And Reddick plead guilty to breaking the orbital bone of a fellow Temple student's face (after charges were reduced from a felony) so pump the breaks on your assurances that he is the worlds greatest guy.  I don't want him on my football team.

I know enough about Reddick's work ethic to know he worked hard enough to earn a scholarship after walking on and was recognized as one of the toughest, hard-working players on the team and was given a single digit number to wear(he changed his jersey # from 58 to 7 his senior year). I never said he was the world's greatest guy, to quote the great T-Dub "strawman harder"...lol, I just said he had a good work ethic based on his college career. Besides,  everybody loves Burfict because he's crazy SOB, why wouldn't want a guy who you would feel comfortable with walking down a dark alley on your football team playing LB?

You seem to keep bringing up Reddick's arrest, but let's compare that to Foster's disappointing combine performance.

As for his arrest, here is a press release:

 

Quote

 

PHILADELPHIA (WPVI) --

Two members of Temple University's football team were charged with assault early Tuesday in connection with an off-campus incident back in January.

Dion Dawkins and Haason Reddick surrendered to Philadelphia police Monday night. 

Both have been released on $10,000 bail each.

The charges stem from a fight in the early morning hours of January 18th at Club 1800 at 5th and Berks.

The alleged victim, who is also a Temple student, says he tried to intervene when a friend was getting beat up by several members of the Temple football team.

Police say he was kicked in the eye as he was held by Dawkins and others, suffering a fractured right orbital bone.

Action News is told the injured student, a senior, medically withdrew from the university, but hopes to resume classes in the fall. 

Their lawyer says they are innocent and are the victims of false allegations by those who actually started the fight. He says they are looking forward to their day in court. 


The university has suspended both players from the football team. 

The 6-foot-5, 315-pound Dawkins started on the offensive line last season. He's from Rahway, New Jersey.

The 6-foot-1, 225-pound Reddick played in nine games last year on the defensive line. He's from Camden, New Jersey.


 

It doesn't state that Reddick hit the guy, but it sounds like the was in the middle of it. Dion Dawkins could be our second round pick at OG, they seem to make a great team and know how to kick ass together... lol  Besides what college or pro football player hasn't gotten into a bar fight. 

Here is an article that details Foster's incident at the combine:

 

Quote

 

What had been a quiet week at the NFL Combine and in Alabama athletics took an odd turn when Adam Schefter reported that Reuben Foster was being sent home from the combine for a “heated exchange” with a hospital employee.

After Schefter’s initial report, Robert Klemko of MMQB reported the incident in more detail. Foster reportedly grew impatient with his wait and asked a “male hospital employee,” who may or may not be medical personnel but almost certainly wasn’t a doctor, if he “knew who he was.” The hospital employee, appropriately, told him he didn’t care who he was and he’d just have to wait. Foster, probably semi-jokingly, said something to the effect of “you can get these hands”; the hospital employee, unwisely, told him to “do it.” The men got face to face and shouted at each other.

Let’s pause to talk about how dumb this is on so many levels. Foster never should have tried the “do you know who I am” nonsense, because, oh my goodness, who cares. He also never should have said anything about giving the employee the hands, because, of course, he shouldn’t have. And this hospital employee should have just walked away as soon as possible, rather than telling a very large and strong man with a reputation for violent hits to assault him. He knew exactly what would happen if he didn’t walk away.

 

 
So Foster tried to big league the nurse and then threatened him, at least Reddick is really bout that action and put hands on someone instead of just talking about it...lol.
 
Either way neither incident is a deal breaker, imo. Foster's seems a bit more immature because of the setting, he's at a job interview and he's threatening to beat up someone because he can't get special treatment. 
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Did you just quote Reddick's defense attorney as evidence that he is innocent?  Hahaha!

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Dawkins and Reddick are from Rahway and Camden NJ, respectively. Talk about mean alleyways to walk through!

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There's a difference between getting into a fight at a night club at 2 am versus nearly throwing fists with a murse during the combine. Both are bad. The combine incident shows an astounding lack of common sense.

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39 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

Did you just quote Reddick's defense attorney as evidence that he is innocent?  Hahaha!

I never said he was innocent, he surrounded to the police and was ultimately offered to go to a program which essentially dropped the charges. Here is a portion of an article that details the results of the charges:

 

Quote

 

Dawkins, a senior offensive lineman, and Reddick, a redshirt-senior defensive lineman, were arrested March 2015 and charged in connection to a bar fight in January of that year where two Temple students were injured, one seriously.

Last Monday the two accepted an offer to enter the Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition program. The program requirements will be spelled out for Dawkins and Reddick at a status meeting next week.

“As long as they keep their noses clean, it will be as if a jury had found them not guilty,” said James Funt, the attorney for Dion Dawkins. If both players complete the program successfully, there will be a withdrawal of all charges against them, and they will have the opportunity to completely expunge their records.

“Typically ARD is reserved for first-time and non-violent offenders,” Funt said.

The most severe charge against Dawkins and Reddick was aggravated assault, a first-degree felony. Funt said felony assault is the most violent charge before homicide.

“It’s highly unusual for [people with felony charges] to get an ARD offer, but when they go through the program it will not be for a felony, but a misdemeanor,” added Funt, who worked with Reddick’s attorney, Matt Haggarty. “Accepting this program is not an admission of guilt. As I say, they swallowed a very poisoned pride pill. There was a strong likelihood of being found innocent, but we weren’t willing to take that risk with their futures.”

In a joint statement released with Haggarty, Funt said “in a dark, crowded and chaotic bar they were misidentified as the assailants in an assault on a fellow Temple student.”

“I don’t know what influence that had on the decision [to offer ARD], but I think what the District Attorney did was right and fair,” he said. “At first they only had the complainant’s version, but then they had the whole story.”

In September 2015, Dawkins and Reddick had requested to be placed into the ARD program, but the DA did not offer it.

Glenn Gillman, Reddick’s attorney at the time, told The Temple News that ARD “wasn’t really appropriate” for the case.

http://temple-news.com/news/football-players-accept-das-offer-avoid-trial/

 

 

 

I wasn't at the club when the fight occurred so I can only go off of the information that is available. It seems like a fight broke out in a club between the football players and other students, Reddick and Dawkins got identified, correctly or incorrectly, as the assailants and they turned themselves in. Who did what is in question, i.e. who broke the victim's face, but the end result is clear. The DA offered them a very unusual deal, especially when you consider the charges.

At the end of they day they won't have any convictions on their record and will be in the NFL as high draft picks, hopefully both with the Bengals.^_^ 

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I'm always amazed at how so many want to pick a player they want us to select, and then denigrate any other player and any other poster that says anyone else is worthy.  I believe both Foster and Reddick are 1st rd picks, I think both have shown on the field that they are exceptional players, albeit in different ways, and I think both could either be great or not.  Yes, we never know if Alabama players are as reflective of their individual talent or the overall talent of the combined program, not do we know whether the Individual talent by a smaller school guy is reflective of his ability or more the result of playing against players that do not have the same upside.  Too many want to make judgements about guys now, and continue it throughout their career.  Can't we just root for the guys on our team to continually improve, and not let our "initial decision" cloud our continued views? 

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I think the Bengals ideal pick would be a pass rusher at #9.  If the value isn't there at DE, I hope one of the top safeties falls.  I hope they only take a LB if they get wiped out at both of the other positions.

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34 minutes ago, kennethmw said:

I'm always amazed at how so many want to pick a player they want us to select, and then denigrate any other player and any other poster that says anyone else is worthy.  I believe both Foster and Reddick are 1st rd picks, I think both have shown on the field that they are exceptional players, albeit in different ways, and I think both could either be great or not.  Yes, we never know if Alabama players are as reflective of their individual talent or the overall talent of the combined program, not do we know whether the Individual talent by a smaller school guy is reflective of his ability or more the result of playing against players that do not have the same upside.  Too many want to make judgements about guys now, and continue it throughout their career.  Can't we just root for the guys on our team to continually improve, and not let our "initial decision" cloud our continued views? 

think Foster is a first round pick, although I don't think the Bengals should draft him at #9.  I wouldn't be devastated if they did, I would just rather they address a different position.

I think Reddick is the most overrated fools gold in this draft.  He is a 3rd-5th round talent that someone might pick in the first round and be very disappointed.   Why the hell would we use the highest pick that we have had in 7 years to draft an okay player from a bad conference and then try to teach him a new position?  Oh and by the way, that new position isn't a valuable position like OT, DE, CB or QB.  We would try to teach him to play LB.  Does that make any sense at all?  If we need a LB, why not draft a LB?  

And what is the track record of first round college DEs transitioning to LB.  It works about 1/5 of the time.  For every Shawn Merriman, there are five Barkevious Mingos, Jarvis Joneses  or Larry Englishes.  And it almost never works for transitions to 4-3 LB (which the Bengals run).  Almost all of the success stories are college DEs to 3-4 OLBs.  

In sum, using our very valuable # 9 pick on Reddick is one of the dumbest ideas I have heard on this board.  It is very, very, very likely to end in disappointment.

 

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1 hour ago, BlackBengal said:

think Foster is a first round pick, although I don't think the Bengals should draft him at #9.  I wouldn't be devastated if they did, I would just rather they address a different position.

I think Reddick is the most overrated fools gold in this draft.  He is a 3rd-5th round talent that someone might pick in the first round and be very disappointed.   Why the hell would we use the highest pick that we have had in 7 years to draft an okay player from a bad conference and then try to teach him a new position?  Oh and by the way, that new position isn't a valuable position like OT, DE, CB or QB.  We would try to teach him to play LB.  Does that make any sense at all?  If we need a LB, why not draft a LB?  

And what is the track record of first round college DEs transitioning to LB.  It works about 1/5 of the time.  For every Shawn Merriman, there are five Barkevious Mingos, Jarvis Joneses  or Larry Englishes.  And it almost never works for transitions to 4-3 LB (which the Bengals run).  Almost all of the success stories are college DEs to 3-4 OLBs.  

In sum, using our very valuable # 9 pick on Reddick is one of the dumbest ideas I have heard on this board.  It is very, very, very likely to end in disappointment.

 

Come on, Bro, that's the ridiculous Bullshit I was talking about.  EVERYBODY that makes a living evaluating NFL  talent says he's a first round talent, but you in your infinite Amateur talent evaluating skills, think the professionals are dimwitted, and only you know the truth.  Now, they are not infallible, but they would tell you that, whereas, you will simply double down on your opinion.  It's like if I was looking for information in the field you're a professional in, I would respect your opinion much more, than someone who has only a peripheral knowledge of the industry.

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19 hours ago, kennethmw said:

Come on, Bro, that's the ridiculous Bullshit I was talking about.  EVERYBODY that makes a living evaluating NFL  talent says he's a first round talent, but you in your infinite Amateur talent evaluating skills, think the professionals are dimwitted, and only you know the truth.  Now, they are not infallible, but they would tell you that, whereas, you will simply double down on your opinion.  It's like if I was looking for information in the field you're a professional in, I would respect your opinion much more, than someone who has only a peripheral knowledge of the industry.

So when the media draftniks think that someone is a first round talent no one is allowed disagree?  I can't disagree with the guys that thought Jamarcus Russell was a consensus top-5 player?  I can't disagree with the media draftniks that are dead ass wrong about 1/3 of the first round players every single year?  

Also "EVERYBODY" that makes a living evaluating the draft does not agree that Reddick is a first round talent.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mock-draft-5-0-jets-trade-up-to-take-a-qb/

 

 

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2 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

I can't disagree with the guys that thought Jamarcus Russell was a consensus top-5 player?

well he went #1 overall didn't he?

they're not in the business of projecting how good a guy will turn out after he gets drafted, they're simply there to tell tell us where they think guys will get drafted.....in the case of Russell they were on the money. 

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On 3/18/2017 at 10:24 AM, LostInDaJungle said:

You should follow the dude on Twitter. I can tell you he at least takes his workouts very seriously. Dude is still jacked.

You should follow him on twitter.  He posts pictures of his strong muscular body. ;)

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1 hour ago, spicoli said:

well he went #1 overall didn't he?

they're not in the business of projecting how good a guy will turn out after he gets drafted, they're simply there to tell tell us where they think guys will get drafted.....in the case of Russell they were on the money. 

Yes they are.  That is pretty much all those guys talk about.  How good or bad a player will be in the pros.

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5 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

Yes they are.  That is pretty much all those guys talk about.  How good or bad a player will be in the pros.

no they really don't...they mostly try to compare prospects to guys already in the league and they try and correctly project where a guy might get drafted.

they really couldn't care less how they turn out, they're only objective is getting the draft spots correct. 

 

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Have I mentioned lately that draft hype is ridiculous?  Not trying to play like I'm above it myself but watching these dudes move up and down the board based on their favorite color is wild.  Can't deny that the freakish athlete who nobody knows where to play has bust written all over him, though.

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8 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

So when the media draftniks think that someone is a first round talent no one is allowed disagree?  I can't disagree with the guys that thought Jamarcus Russell was a consensus top-5 player?  I can't disagree with the media draftniks that are dead ass wrong about 1/3 of the first round players every single year?  

Also "EVERYBODY" that makes a living evaluating the draft does not agree that Reddick is a first round talent.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mock-draft-5-0-jets-trade-up-to-take-a-qb/

 

 

actually they have him ranked as the 29th best prospect but don't have him mocked in their latest draft, after they read this thread they will mock him to the bengals like all smart people would do. 

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2 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

actually they have him ranked as the 29th best prospect but don't have him mocked in their latest draft, after they read this thread they will mock him to the bengals like all smart people would do. 

Give up man.  If he goes in the first round at all it will be very late.  

The only players I was as convinced would bust as Reddick in the last ten years were Amobi Okoye (bust) and Johnny Football (bust, obviously).

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11 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

 

Give up man.  If he goes in the first round at all it will be very late.  

The only players I was as convinced would bust as Reddick in the last ten years were Amobi Okoye (bust) and Johnny Football (bust, obviously).

lol...Give up?????

The Reddick hype train is just leaving station baby, you better get on board or get left behind. Choo chooo!!!!!

Image result for haason reddick train

 

Image result for haason reddick train

Btw...another mock draft has the Bengals drafting Reddick...http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698819-2017-nfl-mock-draft-1st-round-predictions-and-top-prospects-stock-watch

Image result for haason reddick train

 

Tell me you don't want some that orbital bone fracturing, 4.5/40 running, 47.5 TFL making, ol' John Henry work ethic having on the Bengals roster next year? Comparing him to Johnny Manziel, really?? You are not winning friends and influencing people with those type of comparisons. 

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We had that guy already, except he was faster, bigger and a much better college player than Reddick.  His name was Dontay Moch, and he plays in Canada now.

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11 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

We had that guy already, except he was faster, bigger and a much better college player than Reddick.  His name was Dontay Moch, and he plays in Canada now.

We've also drafted Foster before, his name was Keith Rivers and he got his face busted up by a WR and was never the same.

After 4 blah seasons he was traded for a 5th round pick. 

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12 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

We've also drafted Foster before, his name was Keith Rivers and he got his face busted up by a WR and was never the same.

After 4 blah seasons he was traded for a 5th round pick. 

I just quoted your most recent post so you know that I'm talking directly to you, but this doesn't have anything to do with the Keith Rivers and Dontay Moch comparisons (which are both kinda off IMO).

Do you agree that Reddick is at least somewhat of a "project" draft choice? I'll get into more once I see your answer to that first.

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