MichaelWeston

Possibilities at 9

450 posts in this topic

14 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

I like Solomon Thomas, I'm just not sure we'd use him properly.

how can they screw it up? he comes in and takes MJ's spot at RDE and can also rotate inside on passing downs if you want him to, that's really all there is to it. 

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20 minutes ago, spicoli said:

how can they screw it up? he comes in and takes MJ's spot at RDE and can also rotate inside on passing downs if you want him to, that's really all there is to it. 

They could put him as a KR/PR?

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11 minutes ago, akiliMVP said:

They could put him as a KR/PR?

yeah apparently that's how people must see it

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41 minutes ago, spicoli said:

how can they screw it up? he comes in and takes MJ's spot at RDE and can also rotate inside on passing downs if you want him to, that's really all there is to it. 

I guess I've just lost confidence in the coaching staff to adapt to players that go against their normal type of player at a specific position.  I don't think we'd use Mccaffery, Peppers or Samuel in the proper way.  Maybe I'm overthinking it with Thomas. 

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2 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

Maybe I'm overthinking it with Thomas.

yes

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2 minutes ago, spicoli said:

yes

Thanks.  

 

I still wouldn't move him into my top 5.  Yes, his game vs. UNC was great and he'll probably be a good player, I just think others are better for us.

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1 hour ago, spicoli said:

how can they screw it up? he comes in and takes MJ's spot at RDE and can also rotate inside on passing downs if you want him to, that's really all there is to it. 

You cannot be serious.  Have you seen Thomas play end?  He is not an elite end and is absolutely not a RDE in a 4-3.    I can see him maybe playing on the left side (where we have Carlos), and I can definitely see him playing inside (where we have Geno), but there is no way in hell that any team will draft Thomas to play RDE.  

Fans and the media just love that Thomas went to Stanford.  They seriously eat that shit up.  He is so f'n overrated.  

 

 

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I've watched a ton of Thomas, he'll have no trouble whatsoever playing DE on either side.

the kid's just a flat out warrior, you could put him at MLB and he'd dominate......he was double teamed constantly in college, put him on a line with Dunlap and Geno and he'll dominate one on one match-ups inside or out, he's just too quick and too strong.

also, at RDE teams won't be able to run to his side much because he'll seal that edge like nobody the Bengals have ever had before. 

unless you're scared off by the fact that he's an inch shorter than the prototype, there's really nothing not to like about the kid.

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I think Thomas is gone by 9 anyway so what he would be in our D is moot.

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1 hour ago, spicoli said:

I've watched a ton of Thomas, he'll have no trouble whatsoever playing DE on either side.

the kid's just a flat out warrior, you could put him at MLB and he'd dominate......he was double teamed constantly in college, put him on a line with Dunlap and Geno and he'll dominate one on one match-ups inside or out, he's just too quick and too strong.

also, at RDE teams won't be able to run to his side much because he'll seal that edge like nobody the Bengals have ever had before. 

unless you're scared off by the fact that he's an inch shorter than the prototype, there's really nothing not to like about the kid.

No he wasn't.  I don't know how you could have watched "a ton of Thomas" and also say he was "double teamed constantly."  For the most part he was only double teamed on inside run plays, which is standard for all interior DLs.  All interior DLs are routinely double teamed on inside run plays.  He was almost never double teamed on pass plays.  

He played very, very little DE in college so drafting him to play DE in our traditional 4-3 is a huge projection and a huge risk for a top-10 pick.  

This Solomon Thomas thing reminds me of how everyone on this board creamed their collective shorts over Amobi Okoye when he was drafted.  People had this irrational love of a guy that wasnt all that good.  Fed by the media that overrated him because he had a cool story.  Okoye was a huge bust, which was so predictable because he wasnt a great college player.  

Thomas is a better college player than Okoye and I think he will be a better pro.  But there is no reason to draft him ahead of Barnett, Charlton or McDowell.  He should be a mid to late first rounder.  

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I really see no reason to draft a DL in the first round anyway unless we're getting Garrett or Allen...although Thomas certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings any

.Besides that I think somebody will wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment and draft him with one of the top 8 picks...making the conversation moot.

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Quote

Joe Marino @TheJoeMarino 

Stanford DL Solomon Thomas: 6025, 273 40-4.69 Bench-30 Vertical-35" Broad-126" 3-Cone-6.95 S.Shuttle-4.28 Nice work! #Top10 #NFLDraft

that short shuttle time is elite and it shows in big neon lights just what kind of short area quickness the kid has....combine those kind of quicks with his strength and he's gonna be an absolute handful to deal with no matter where you line him up at. 

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Because McDowell is a dumbass and wasn't productive.
Thomas is 273 lbs. He is not Geno or a DT. He is an end. He was productive, dominated the combine, is extremely intelligent and great character.
What's not to like? That he's an inch shorter than preferred for ends?

But hes not an end. Look at his game tape. Almost all of his production came from the dt spot. There was barely any production frok the end.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

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1 minute ago, Jpoore said:


But hes not an end. Look at his game tape. Almost all of his production came from the dt spot. There was barely any production frok the end.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app
 

if the Bengals draft him at 9, he'll be an end.

and he'll be just fine.

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if the Bengals draft him at 9, he'll be an end.
and he'll be just fine.

My problem is the fact that your drafting a guy whose career high is 8.5 sacks and never got more than 13 sacks for his career. College production HAS to matter. So i would pass on him

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38 minutes ago, Jpoore said:


Insane. His potential is top 5 cb of all time. But durability queations remain.

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Yeah, that's a shame.  His hammys are bad.

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On 3/3/2017 at 1:04 PM, Jason said:

Ok.  Like it or not, I still think Lattimore is a possibility at 9 if we lose Dre and Adam. 

I agree, but I think that second round is when they are most likely to target a corner.  This is a very deep CB draft.

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My personal takes on #9:

1. I think Solomon Thomas goes top 5 and Myles Garrett is obviously long gone. I'd love to have either but I think it's a moot point.

2. Wish Jamaal Adams tested better (4.50 or faster) and Malik Hooker was healthy. I'm also a fan of Shawn Williams and don't see Safety as a need. But, these two Safeties have shown enough special traits that I think if either makes it to 9 they are probably BPA and you just pull the trigger. Don't really think either make it to 9 though.

3. I have very little interest in Jonathan Allen. Bad shoulders. Undersized for DT. Extremely unathletic for DE. Seems like he's "just a guy" and the talk of him as the #2 overall player doesn't really make sense. Could be a defensive version of Trent Richardson. I'd pass if he's still there.

4. I'm scared of Rueben Foster as well. His body seems beat to hell and we don't know how athletic he really is. At 6'0, 229 he's also undersized. I'm not against picking him, but after the Ogbuehi pick (and seeing some of these other Bama guys flame out), I'm skeptical of guys who we don't have any testing times for. Just seems like a guy who should go mid-1st and not top 10. 

5. I'm warming to the idea of a WR at #9. I don't think any of the top 3 are slam dunk top 10 talents. But after the combine, I think you can say the same about the DE and LB prospects too. I'm especially intrigued by John Ross. Speed is such a valuable commodity right now. Kenny Stills is reportedly going to get $12M a year in FA. Ross is a guy who not only becomes a top option on our offense, but has a realistic chance of making everyone else around him better. Tougher to double AJ with 4.22 on the other side. Tougher to sneak an 8th man into the box to stop the run, etc. 

6. If the Safeties don't fall and they aren't sold on Foster or the WRs, then I could definitely see them making a slight reach for the best pass rusher available. Derek Barnett is solid. Maybe you just ignore the fact that he's an undersized, mid-4.8 guy and look at the college production. Sometimes that works out and you get a Terrell Suggs. Sometimes you end up with Darqueze Dennard and you actually get an undersized guy who isn't very fast and the college production doesn't translate to the next level. Taco Charlton is a one-year wonder. Even that is probably being generous. He was mediocre for half of his senior year as well. He's more like a 5-game wonder. DE makes so much sense on paper, but I'm not seeing any slam dunk options that are going to be there at 9. 

7. Leonard Fournette is good, but seems like a guy who needs to build a head of steam and won't be worth the pick behind a mediocre OL where he's regularly having to try to make guys miss in the backfield. Mediocre OL is where we're at right now so I don't see the value for the Bengals.

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6 minutes ago, happyrid said:

My personal takes on #9:

4. I'm scared of Rueben Foster as well. His body seems beat to hell and we don't know how athletic he really is. At 6'0, 229 he's also undersized. I'm not against picking him, but after the Ogbuehi pick (and seeing some of these other Bama guys flame out), I'm skeptical of guys who we don't have any testing times for. Just seems like a guy who should go mid-1st and not top 10. 

6. If the Safeties don't fall and they aren't sold on Foster or the WRs, then I could definitely see them making a slight reach for the best pass rusher available. Derek Barnett is solid. Maybe you just ignore the fact that he's an undersized, mid-4.8 guy and look at the college production. Sometimes that works out and you get a Terrell Suggs. Sometimes you end up with Darqueze Dennard and you actually get an undersized guy who isn't very fast and the college production doesn't translate to the next level. Taco Charlton is a one-year wonder. Even that is probably being generous. He was mediocre for half of his senior year as well. He's more like a 5-game wonder. DE makes so much sense on paper, but I'm not seeing any slam dunk options that are going to be there at 9. 

7. Leonard Fournette is good, but seems like a guy who needs to build a head of steam and won't be worth the pick behind a mediocre OL where he's regularly having to try to make guys miss in the backfield. Mediocre OL is where we're at right now so I don't see the value for the Bengals.

4. Foster has some red flags, but I like him a lot better than taking some of the other names being thrown around. I agree that he seems like a mid rounder that will probably go earlier whether he's taken by us or not.

6. I hope this doesn't happen. I don't have a problem with a pass rusher with a top 10 pick, but the lack of QB and LT prospects in this draft class is pushing these safeties and pass rushers to the top of the draft when these guys would normally be available 4 or 5 picks later. I'd hate to have to settle with taking the 4th best pass rusher (or worse) with only 8 teams picking ahead of us. That would be disappointing.

7. Totally agree. If we are going to get aggressive and re-sign Zeitler and Whit or target a road grader like Larry Warford in free agency, by all means take Fournette. With the current state of the line minus Zeitler? No thanks, what's the point? I wouldn't complain with Fournette here, I just don't think it would be the best use of his abilities if he's going to get crushed behind the line more often than not.

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14 minutes ago, happyrid said:

My personal takes on #9:

5. I'm warming to the idea of a WR at #9. I don't think any of the top 3 are slam dunk top 10 talents. But after the combine, I think you can say the same about the DE and LB prospects too. I'm especially intrigued by John Ross. Speed is such a valuable commodity right now. Kenny Stills is reportedly going to get $12M a year in FA. Ross is a guy who not only becomes a top option on our offense, but has a realistic chance of making everyone else around him better. Tougher to double AJ with 4.22 on the other side. Tougher to sneak an 8th man into the box to stop the run, etc. 

I think that the Bengals should roll with what they have at WR.  The WRs played pretty good even after AJ went down.  I think Core is a baller would should develop into a solid #2..  Bring back LaFell for insurance.  Between Core, LaFell and Boyd they have a solid group behind AJ.  Maybe add a WR in the later rounds.  

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13 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

4. Foster has some red flags, but I like him a lot better than taking some of the other names being thrown around. I agree that he seems like a mid rounder that will probably go earlier whether he's taken by us or not.

6. I hope this doesn't happen. I don't have a problem with a pass rusher with a top 10 pick, but the lack of QB and LT prospects in this draft class is pushing these safeties and pass rushers to the top of the draft when these guys would normally be available 4 or 5 picks later. I'd hate to have to settle with taking the 4th best pass rusher (or worse) with only 8 teams picking ahead of us. That would be disappointing.

7. Totally agree. If we are going to get aggressive and re-sign Zeitler and Whit or target a road grader like Larry Warford in free agency, by all means take Fournette. With the current state of the line minus Zeitler? No thanks, what's the point? I wouldn't complain with Fournette here, I just don't think it would be the best use of his abilities if he's going to get crushed behind the line more often than not.

Agree with you on these.

I think in the big picture, it's a little bit like Duke Tobin said last week. At #9 in this draft, the slam dunk elite talents are going to be gone. What you get is first pick of the next tier of guys. It's a little frustrating because you know that teams behind (including B'more at 16) are getting guys who are in the same basic tier. But it is what it is.

When you just kind of accept that they're getting more of a mid-1st round type talent it's easier to get excited about guys like Foster, Ross, Barnett, etc. 

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11 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

I think that the Bengals should roll with what they have at WR.  The WRs played pretty good even after AJ went down.  I think Core is a baller would should develop into a solid #2..  Bring back LaFell for insurance.  Between Core, LaFell and Boyd they have a solid group behind AJ.  Maybe add a WR in the later rounds.  

I think they need a young speedster for sure out of this draft. Both Tobin and Zampese basically came out and said this in the past week. 

Only question is whether it's Day 1, Day 2 or one of their 4th rounders. I'd bet my house that we draft a WR in the first 4 rounds. 

It's a deep receiver class, so I think there's a good argument for waiting. But there's plenty of depth at other need positions (especially DE, LB, and RB) too so I think you can just as easily make the case that you're fine waiting at those positions and just taking whoever you think is the best WR in the class at 9. 

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If we are just talking about team needs, WR is way down the list.  We need RDE, CB, OL and LB.  

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7 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

If we are just talking about team needs, WR is way down the list.  We need RDE, CB, OL and LB.  

I feel like people vastly underrate the MJ/Clarke rotation at RDE. They're both here for another season at the very least.

Depending on what happens with LaFell, Kirkpatrick, and random free agents, WR and CB could easily flip for which is a bigger need.

OL & LB are top priority IMO.

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