MichaelWeston

Possibilities at 9

449 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

All of this is a complete guess and projection.   Reddick is too small to be a regular pass rusher in a 4-3.  When he rushes the passer it will have to be a surprise and the Bengals would have to scheme for it, because he will be stoned every time he takes on a OL.  So he won't do it often in the Bengals' system.  I think if he was a Bengal he would play MLB and would not be asked to rush the passer on a regular basis.  So #9 is too rich for Reddick for a team like the Bengals.

If he is going to rush the passer at the NFL level on a regular basis it will have to be as a 3-4 OLB.  Pitts' D is a much better fit for Reddick.

He would be considered a speed rusher that you send from various angles, he wouldn't have to run straight into the OT every time...lol. He wouldn't have to play MLB, he could play SLB or WLB as well, his versatility is one of his strength. If you played a 4-3 under defense, Reddick would be an ideal Sam as he could rush the passer or cover the tight end with his 4.5 speed 36.5" vertical jump.

He doesn't have to play in a 3-4 defense either, have you even watch any film on him or are you going on what you have read on this message board?

 

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

Most talent evaluators say he can play any LB position in a 3-4 or 4-3 defense, his scheme versatility is what makes him so valuable. Also, he can play LB on 1st and 2nd down and convert to a pass rusher on 3rd down, his position could change depending upon the down and distance. 

Reddick is an amazing athlete that can fill many roles on a defense, kind of like a joker or something to that effect. 

Also I would say the way he practiced at the Senior Bowl with NFL coaches, his attitude, athletic ability, and college production are why he is considered a first round pick more so than what he did at one position during the Senior Bowl. 

My point is Foster is considered to be the best LB in the draft but I would rather have Reddick for many reasons I have already listed. 

I think back to the David Pollack pick who Marvin was enthralled with transitioning him from DE and rushing from the LB position.  Reddick obviously being lighter and more athletic, but it makes me think Reddick could be high on their board with

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

He would be considered a speed rusher that you send from various angles, he wouldn't have to run straight into the OT every time...lol. He wouldn't have to play MLB, he could play SLB or WLB as well, his versatility is one of his strength. If you played a 4-3 under defense, Reddick would be an ideal Sam as he could rush the passer or cover the tight end with his 4.5 speed 36.5" vertical jump.

He doesn't have to play in a 3-4 defense either, have you even watch any film on him or are you going on what you have read on this message board?

 

Have you actually watched Reddick play?  His position in college was such a weird invention, it doesnt exist in the pros.  He was technically playing DE (most of the time), but he didn't play it in a conventional way.    He lined up on the LOS on about 90% of Temples' plays and tried to run around blockers to get to the ball carrier.  He almost never took on blockers.  When he couldnt get around a block he got engulfed.  The other 10% of the time he dropped into zone coverage.   I just don't see how he will ever be a great pass rusher in the pros based on his college film.  And if he isnt going to be a great pass rusher then he is just a college DE converting to LB and he isnt worth our #9 pick.

He might be great in the pros in the right system (Bengals are definitely not the right system), but he is such a projection.  If he isnt going to just play MLB and he is really going to be a pass-rushing specialist in the pros than the best precedent for it would be Trent Cole.   When Cole played 4-3 end for Andy Reid he was very under-sized even after bulking up a bit, but made up for it with elite athleticism.  Cole was better as a 3-4 OLB when the Eagles switched over after Reid left.  Reddick is even smaller than Cole and is almost certainly not as explosive of an athlete as Cole.  And Cole was a hell of a lot meaner of a college football player.  He took on blockers at UC.  I'm not saying that Reddick is soft.  I am sure he is a very tough guy.  But he has a finesse playing style that I don't like at all. 

Not a risk that any team will take in the top-10.  

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Barnett has a very good 3 cone drill. Watt and Thomas really check the boxes. 

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Watched another Reddick game.  This one against USF.  In this one he played about half of his snaps at standup LB, whereas the other games I watched he was strictly a DE.  

He is a chase player and a bad tackler.  He cannot fight through a block.  Doesn't play the run well at all.  He looks fast and athletic, but it doesn't translate.  Did not stand out in a game with very little NFL talent.  He would be a really bad pick in the first round.  I like him a lot less than I did before I watched the USF game.

When you talk about taking Reddick at 9 you have to compare him to the other LBs you could also get at 9.  You are probably talking about the first LB in the draft.  And the thought of taking Reddick over Rueben Foster is laughable.  

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Reddick seems like another reach for a project player if you're talking about him at #9.

 

the Bengals NEED to draft players that are ready to provide some level of impact in the first 2-3+ rounds this year. Taking project players without true positions or NFL ready skills would be a kiss of death for this season (if it hasn't already been frenched to death)

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You want the snap jumper. wont work in pros

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All of this is a complete guess and projection.   Reddick is too small to be a regular pass rusher in a 4-3.  When he rushes the passer it will have to be a surprise and the Bengals would have to scheme for it, because he will be stoned every time he takes on a OL.  So he won't do it often in the Bengals' system.  I think if he was a Bengal he would play MLB and would not be asked to rush the passer on a regular basis.  So #9 is too rich for Reddick for a team like the Bengals.
If he is going to rush the passer at the NFL level on a regular basis it will have to be as a 3-4 OLB.  Pitts' D is a much better fit for Reddick.
If the Bengals want the player that you are describing they should grab Tim Williams. Much better pass rusher and has projectible NFL size.  

Every lb nowadays in a 4-3 will be stoned rushing the passer. U pretty much have to be less than 245.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

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Watched another Reddick game.  This one against USF.  In this one he played about half of his snaps at standup LB, whereas the other games I watched he was strictly a DE.  
He is a chase player and a bad tackler.  He cannot fight through a block.  Doesn't play the run well at all.  He looks fast and athletic, but it doesn't translate.  Did not stand out in a game with very little NFL talent.  He would be a really bad pick in the first round.  I like him a lot less than I did before I watched the USF game.
When you talk about taking Reddick at 9 you have to compare him to the other LBs you could also get at 9.  You are probably talking about the first LB in the draft.  And the thought of taking Reddick over Rueben Foster is laughable.  

Ruebon foster has way worse coverage skills.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

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16 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

Have you actually watched Reddick play?  His position in college was such a weird invention, it doesnt exist in the pros.  He was technically playing DE (most of the time), but he didn't play it in a conventional way.    He lined up on the LOS on about 90% of Temples' plays and tried to run around blockers to get to the ball carrier.  He almost never took on blockers.  When he couldnt get around a block he got engulfed.  The other 10% of the time he dropped into zone coverage.   I just don't see how he will ever be a great pass rusher in the pros based on his college film.  And if he isnt going to be a great pass rusher then he is just a college DE converting to LB and he isnt worth our #9 pick.

He might be great in the pros in the right system (Bengals are definitely not the right system), but he is such a projection.  If he isnt going to just play MLB and he is really going to be a pass-rushing specialist in the pros than the best precedent for it would be Trent Cole.   When Cole played 4-3 end for Andy Reid he was very under-sized even after bulking up a bit, but made up for it with elite athleticism.  Cole was better as a 3-4 OLB when the Eagles switched over after Reid left.  Reddick is even smaller than Cole and is almost certainly not as explosive of an athlete as Cole.  And Cole was a hell of a lot meaner of a college football player.  He took on blockers at UC.  I'm not saying that Reddick is soft.  I am sure he is a very tough guy.  But he has a finesse playing style that I don't like at all. 

Not a risk that any team will take in the top-10.  

How do you call playing DE in a 4-3 a weird invention, was it because of his size?

I've seen enough of his game film to know that you what you described isn't accurate. He didn't try to run around blockers every play, he actually took on blockers and made plenty of plays in the backfield. 

Here is a link to a game he played vs. ND, he took on plenty of blockers and made some plays in the back field. He showed a good motor by chasing down a RB after a 40 yard head start as well, the boy is a baller. 

You question his explosiveness when he was the top performer at the combine in all of the drills that measure explosiveness(40 yard dash, vertical jump, and broad jump).

He also put up 24 reps of 225 lbs, which means he's strong enough to bang with the big boys in the trenches.

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

Watched another Reddick game.  This one against USF.  In this one he played about half of his snaps at standup LB, whereas the other games I watched he was strictly a DE.  

He is a chase player and a bad tackler.  He cannot fight through a block.  Doesn't play the run well at all.  He looks fast and athletic, but it doesn't translate.  Did not stand out in a game with very little NFL talent.  He would be a really bad pick in the first round.  I like him a lot less than I did before I watched the USF game.

When you talk about taking Reddick at 9 you have to compare him to the other LBs you could also get at 9.  You are probably talking about the first LB in the draft.  And the thought of taking Reddick over Rueben Foster is laughable.  

Your assessment of him is laughable, how does fast and athletic not translate to the NFL? You're contradicting yourself and making up things about this guy just to prove a point. He can fight through blocks, play the run well, and cover tight ends. 

Reddick is probably the one guy that has improved his draft status the most since the end of the season as more NFL coaches and scouts dissect his game tape, but you think he's a project and taking him over Foster is laughable...I guess time will tell who is right. 

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

Your assessment of him is laughable, how does fast and athletic not translate to the NFL? You're contradicting yourself and making up things about this guy just to prove a point. He can fight through blocks, play the run well, and cover tight ends. 

Reddick is probably the one guy that has improved his draft status the most since the end of the season as more NFL coaches and scouts dissect his game tape, but you think he's a project and taking him over Foster is laughable...I guess time will tell, who is right. 

I said that his speed and athleticism doesn't translate to elite play on film, not that speed and athleticism don't translate to the NFL.  Jeez.  And it doesn't translate because he takes bad angles, tries to run around blockers instead of taking them on and he isn't a good tackler.

I think that we should all be very wary of guys who improve their stock too much during the combine.  Matt Jones and Margus Hunt comes to mind.  

We have the #9 pick in the draft and you think the Bengals should f around with an okay player from a bad conference who ran a real fast 40 at the combine.   Note that his shuttle time, which is more important than his 40 wasnt very good.  Not in the top-10 for LBs.    The bottom line is that Reddick was a good college player but not a great college player.  I want a great player with the Bengals' top-10 draft pick.

Watch any game film of Reuben Foster, and then watch any game film of Haason Reddick and tell me who is better?  It is so f'n obvious it isnt really worth discussing.  

vs. 

 

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55 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

Your assessment of him is laughable, how does fast and athletic not translate to the NFL? You're contradicting yourself and making up things about this guy just to prove a point. He can fight through blocks, play the run well, and cover tight ends. 

Reddick is probably the one guy that has improved his draft status the most since the end of the season as more NFL coaches and scouts dissect his game tape, but you think he's a project and taking him over Foster is laughable...I guess time will tell, who is right. 

Can you please direct me to a link where NFL coaches and scouts tell us what they think of Reddick's game tape?  I thought NFL coaches and scouts kept that kind of stuff secret.  

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1 hour ago, BlackBengal said:

I said that his speed and athleticism doesnt translate to elite play on film, not that speed and athleticism don't translate to the NFL.  Jeez.

I think that we should all be very wary of guys who improve their stock too much during the combine.  Matt Jones and Margus Hunt comes to mind.  

We have the #9 pick in the draft and you think the Bengals should f around with an okay player from a bad conference who ran a real fast 40 at the combine.   Note that his shuttle time, which is more important than his 40 wasnt very good.  Not in the top-10 for LBs.    

Watch any game film of Reuben Foster, and then watch any game film of Haason Reddick and tell me who is better?  It is so f'n obvious it isnt really worth discussing.  

vs. 

 

Foster is playing behind the best defensive line college football, he has more talent around him so it's much easier for him to have better game tape. He has 6 defensive teammates that will get drafted(Allen, Tomlinson,Williams,Anderson, Jackson, & Humphrey) within the first 3 rounds, while Reddick is the only guy on his defense that will be drafted. 

I watched the video of Foster vs. USC and it's nothing special, he made 1 good play on the deflection that turned into a INT but he also hit a guy late out of bounds, was fooled on a play fake, and got engulfed by a blocker several times including one that lead to a big run up the middle(which sucks because he is a ILB) and conversion of 3rd and short in the red zone. You are acting like Foster is the second coming of Ray Lewis or Mike Singletary when he's just another over rated Alabama prospect that looks great in college because he's surrounded by the best players at that level. 

Alabama players have a noted history of being big time bust in the NFL, namely because their not held accountable, don't have to work as hard to have success as other programs, and have a sense of entitlement that doesn't translate well to the NFL. 

As for video of NFL coaches and scouts discussing Reddick, here is a video of a guy who is currently in consideration for a GM position with Redskins giving his evaluation of Reddick after watching him practice for a week.

Per Mike Mayock:

 

Quote

Haason Reddick, ILB, Temple

I had several scouting friends of mine asking me if I had seen Reddick. I had and loved what I saw. At 6-foot-1 and 237 pounds, he rushed the quarterback, where he's comfortable, and showed he could play in coverage, both in man and zone. And in team drills he was everywhere. For a guy most consider a "tweener" he made a big statement on Wednesday. He's an ultra-versatile player. They use him as a cover guy but also they bring him on the rush in certain situations. That's where I think Reddick fits. I've been told he'll test well, too, at the combine and his pro day. His arrow is pointed way up from what I've seen here.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000779227/article/senior-bowl-mike-mayocks-day-2-practice-stars

 

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28 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

 

Alabama players have a noted history of being big time bust in the NFL, namely because their not held accountable, don't have to work as hard to have success as other programs, and have a sense of entitlement that doesn't translate well to the NFL. 

 

Alabama players are busts?  What?

Julio Jones, Dont'a Hightower, Rolando McClain, Landon Collins, Amari Cooper, Ryan Kelly, Andre Smith, Dre Kirkpatrick, Mark Barron, Ha Ha Clinton Dix, Courtney Upshaw, Evan Mathis, Derrick Henry, CJ Mosley, Marcell Dareus, A'Shawn Robinson, Kareem Jackson,  TJ Yeldon, Jarran Reed are/were all pretty good.  I'll even throw in our man AJ McCarron who has certainly lived up to his meager draft position.  

But Trent Richardson and Dee Milliner suck, so you may be right.  

 
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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

Alabama players have a noted history of being big time bust in the NFL, namely because their not held accountable, don't have to work as hard to have success as other programs, and have a sense of entitlement that doesn't translate well to the NFL. 

What the hell are you talking about?  Alabama has a GREAT track record of players living up to their draft postion. Julio Jones, Courtney Upshaw, Evan Mathis, CJ Mosley, Marcell Dareus, Dre Kirkpatrick, Mark Ingram, A'Shawn Robinson, Ha Ha, Clinton Dix, Eddie Lacy, Kareen Jackson, Ryan Kelly, TJ Yeldon, Mark Barron, Landon Collins, Amari Cooper, Derrick Henry, Andre Smith, AJ McCarron.  Ill even throw in Gilberry who entered the league as a UDFA and has carved out a long career.

I think you are just think of Trent Richardson.  Yeah, he sucks.  I can only think of a few others.  Dee Milliner is no good.  I think Chance Warmack has been a disappointment.  

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21 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

What the hell are you talking about?  Alabama has a GREAT track record of players living up to their draft postion. Julio Jones, Courtney Upshaw, Evan Mathis, CJ Mosley, Marcell Dareus, Dre Kirkpatrick, Rolando McClain, Mark Ingram, A'Shawn Robinson, Ha Ha, Clinton Dix, Eddie Lacy, Kareen Jackson, Ryan Kelly, TJ Yeldon, Mark Barron, Landon Collins, Amari Cooper, Derrick Henry, Andre Smith, AJ McCarron

I think you are just think of Trent Richardson.  Yeah, he sucks.  I can only think of a few others.  Dee Milliner is no good.  I think Chance Warmack has been a disappointment.  

Uhhhhhh

Courtney Upshaw lived up to the draft position? TJ Yeldon, really? I like Andre Smith, but lived up to #6 overall pick? Ehhhhh. A'Shawn Robinson and most other rookies are too early to call. Kareem Jackson is not good lol WTF has AJ McCarron done? A couple others there are questionable since your criteria was "living up to their draft position"; for example, Eddie Lacy has fallen off a cliff.

You also missed some other early round picks like Javier Arenas (playing in the CFL), Terrence Cody wasn't good, James Carpenter isn't 1st round guard material, DJ Fluker is a bust, and that's not even getting to the 'Bama hyped players taken in the 3rd or later rounds, I only skimmed through the top 2 rounds over the past few years.

I'm not trying to say that you should or shouldn't take someone because they're coming out of Alabama, I'm just confused at why some of those names are on your top list, you're reallllllllllllllllllly stretching it to say half of those guys lived up to their draft position.

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Maybe Upshaw is a bad example.  Second round pick that has just been okay.  Terrence Cody was also a second rounder.  Second rounders pan out about half the time.

Kareem Jackson is a starting CB on a playoff team 6 years into his career.  The Texans picked up his fifth year option and then resigned him at 8.5 million per.  So they think he is pretty good.

On Andre Smith.  Go look at the 2009 draft and tell me he hasnt lived up to his draft position.  He has had a better career than every other top-10 pick from that draft other than Mathew Stafford.  He has been by far the best OT taken in the first round of that draft.   

Anyway, Alabama players are not "noted busts".  That is silly.  You can look at any top college team and spout off a couple of busts and a couple of good players from any one of them.  Bama does better than most.  

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8 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

Maybe Upshaw is a bad example.  Second round pick that has just been okay.  Terrence Cody was also a second rounder.  Second rounders pan out about half the time.

Kareem Jackson is a starting CB on a playoff team 6 years into his career.  The Texans picked up his fifth year option and then resigned him at 8.5 million per.  So they think he is pretty good.

On Andre Smith.  Go look at the 2009 draft and tell me he hasnt lived up to his draft position.  He has had a better career than every other top-10 pick from that draft other than Mathew Stafford.  He has been by far the best OT taken in the first round of that draft.   

Anyway, Alabama players are not "noted busts".  That is silly.  You can look at any top college team and spout off a couple of busts and a couple of good players from any one of them.  Bama does better than most.  

I think even Alabama fans would acknowledge they've had more busts than average. 

And they've had very few guys who have outplayed their draft position. You'd think with the huge number of guys they've had drafted, they'd have an equal number of guys who exceed expectations and guys who bust. 

Kareem Jackson fell down to 4th CB for the Texans last year and has 3 career interceptions going into his 7th season. He's not a bust, but he's yet another Bama guy who either barely met expectations or failed to live up to them. 

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8 minutes ago, happyrid said:

I think even Alabama fans would acknowledge they've had more busts than average. 

And they've had very few guys who have outplayed their draft position. You'd think with the huge number of guys they've had drafted, they'd have an equal number of guys who exceed expectations and guys who bust. 

Kareem Jackson fell down to 4th CB for the Texans last year and has 3 career interceptions going into his 7th season. He's not a bust, but he's yet another Bama guy who either barely met expectations or failed to live up to them. 

Kareem Jackson did not lose his starting job last year (except for the couple of weeks when he was injured and didnt play) and he has 13 career INTs, not 3.  When he hit FA he was very sought after and he signed a big deal.  I think that is all the evidence that anyone needs that he is considered a good player.  

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2 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

Per Mike Mayock:

The guy that you are citing as authority for Reddick being better than Foster has Foster rated ahead of Reddick.

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