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PatternMaster

Stephen A Smith calls loyal Bengals suckers...Is he right?

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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

 

Uh no.  I never made that assumption at all.

 

But I know enough about the NFL to know that spending more money ion free agency does not guarantee anything.

 

Yep.  Just take a look at The Skins record for the past twenty years and see what overspending did for them:  5 playoff appearances and 1 bloody playoff win.  And the years Was did make the playoffs the Skins didn't splurge during that offseason.  Not a coincidence. 

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On 5/28/2017 at 9:35 AM, fredtoast said:

 

Uh no.  I never made that assumption at all.

 

But I know enough about the NFL to know that spending more money ion free agency does not guarantee anything.

And I know enough about the NFL to know that better VETERAN Nose Tackles and Line Backers than Rey and Peko could have been had at a reasonable price in FA. 

 

Hoping later round draft choices (and in our case early ones ) magically pan out in the off season when they showed very little evidence last year  isn't much of a strategy and I fear it will be very evident this year on the oline.

 

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On 5/28/2017 at 11:29 AM, BENgal Solo said:

 

Yep.  Just take a look at The Skins record for the past twenty years and see what overspending did for them:  5 playoff appearances and 1 bloody playoff win.  And the years Was did make the playoffs the Skins didn't splurge during that offseason.  Not a coincidence. 

Nobody said anything about over spending in FA.  The best teams fill a hole or two, not break the bank.

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7 minutes ago, SF2 said:

And I know enough about the NFL to know that better VETERAN Nose Tackles and Line Backers than Rey and Peko could have been had at a reasonable price in FA. 

 

Hoping later round draft choices (and in our case early ones ) magically pan out in the off season when they showed very little evidence last year  isn't much of a strategy and I fear it will be very evident this year on the oline.

 

 

They've done well with 3rd & 4th rounders on defense.  If even one of Billings, Jordan Willis or Lawson can play we'll be better.  

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2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

They've done well with 3rd & 4th rounders on defense.  If even one of Billings, Jordan Willis or Lawson can play we'll be better.  

That has nothing to do with my original statement, you are yelling squirrel.  The guys drafted in 2017 have nothing to do with the conversation.

 

Look at the 2012-2016 drafts.  Look at those 3rd and 4the rounders.  Hell, look at all of them.  Funny how you dont bring up those guys. Probably because the results have been horrible.

 

 Peko and in particular Rey Maualuga should have been replaced years ago with better talent.  That could have easily been done in FA at a reasonable price.  

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8 hours ago, SF2 said:

And I know enough about the NFL to know that better VETERAN Nose Tackles and Line Backers than Rey and Peko could have been had at a reasonable price in FA. 

 

 

The Denver Broncos just paid Peko more than we paid him last year.

 

So thanks for proving how much you really know.

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4 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

The Denver Broncos just paid Peko more than we paid him last year.

 

So thanks for proving how much you really know.

 

Actually, its proving how much they know.

 

Carry on ...

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4 hours ago, High School Harry said:

 

Actually, its proving how much they know.

 

Carry on ...

 

Denver-Broncos-Phantom-Super-Bowl-XLVIII

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13 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

The Denver Broncos just paid Peko more than we paid him last year.

 

So thanks for proving how much you really know.

If you think Peko is nearly as good as Sylvester Williams who left in FA then there isnt much reason to discuss this any further.  Denver overpaid because they couldnt pay Williams and were desperate,  not because Peko is a grear player. 

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2 minutes ago, SF2 said:

If you think Peko is nearly as good as Sylvester Williams who left in FA then there isnt much reason to discuss this any further.  Denver overpaid because they were desperate,  not because Peko is a grear player. 

 

 

This still directly contradicts your claim that a better DT could be had in free agency for less money.

 

 

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Smith is known for being sarcastic but to the point. But just need to win a playoff game to shut up critics.

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16 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

 

This still directly contradicts your claim that a better DT could be had in free agency for less money.

 

 

Nonsense, Peko has consistently been rated one of the worst interior lineman in the NFL over the last 5 years.  Bottom 25%.  Denver over reached but it is a short term far cheaper deal than resigning Williams. Better lineman were available but they are 6 mil over the cap therefore they paid what they could for a veteran.

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1 hour ago, SF2 said:

Nonsense, Peko has consistently been rated one of the worst interior lineman in the NFL over the last 5 years.  Bottom 25%.  Denver over reached but it is a short term far cheaper deal than resigning Williams. Better lineman were available but they are 6 mil over the cap therefore they paid what they could for a veteran.

 

 

Better linemen were available for less but the Broncos paid more for Peko?

 

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

 

And Peko has been nowhere near the bottom 25% in DTs over the last five years.  He has been a starter on one of the better run defenses in the league over that span and I will bet that he was among the top 10 in tackles by a DT over that period.  I don't have time right now but I will post the tackle numbers even if they prove me wrong.

 

It is hilarious to see the Peko haters squirming over a Super Bowl Champion team giving a stamp of approval to a player they claimed the Bengals front office was stupid to keep around.

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There will be a new crop of hatees for thr haters to hate, Fred. 

 

Ced and Bodine are blooming, and looks like Williams will be coming up soon. 

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2 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

 He has been a starter on one of the better run defenses in the league over that span and I will bet that he was among the top 10 in tackles by a DT over that period.  I don't have time right now but I will post the tackle numbers even if they prove me wrong.

 

Over the last 5 seasons the Bengals rank 11th in both rushing yards allowed and rushing tds allowed.  I actually thought we would rank higher than that.

 

Over the last 5 years Peko ranks 9th among DT/NT in total tackles with 227.  And before you try to claim that shedding blockers and getting to the ball carrier is no9t an important skill for DTs I will point out that every one of the DTs that had more tackles than Peko went to at least one Pro Bowl (19 total Pro Bowl appearances between them) and 3 of them were All Pro.

 

 

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4 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

Over the last 5 seasons the Bengals rank 11th in both rushing yards allowed and rushing tds allowed.  I actually thought we would rank higher than that.

 

Over the last 5 years Peko ranks 9th among DT/NT in total tackles with 227.  And before you try to claim that shedding blockers and getting to the ball carrier is no9t an important skill for DTs I will point out that every one of the DTs that had more tackles than Peko went to at least one Pro Bowl (19 total Pro Bowl appearances between them) and 3 of them were All Pro.

 

 

19. Cincinnati Bengals

Top overall grade: LB Vontaze Burfict, 87.6

Lowest overall grade: DE Michael Johnson, 41.1

The talent disparity along the Bengals’ defensive line is quite amazing. Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap are both top-15 players at their respective positions, but the line didn’t feature a single other player with a competent grade in 2016. Michael Johnson, Domata Peko, Pat Sims, and Will Clarke all saw more than 350 snaps, with none of them grading higher than 46.6.

 

In 2010 our top tackler was Dhani Jones.  The next year he was out of football.  Your stats do not change what my eyeballs are seeing and the Bengals DIDN'T pay him almost the exact same amount he made in 2016 to stay.

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4 hours ago, SF2 said:

19. Cincinnati Bengals

Top overall grade: LB Vontaze Burfict, 87.6

Lowest overall grade: DE Michael Johnson, 41.1

The talent disparity along the Bengals’ defensive line is quite amazing. Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap are both top-15 players at their respective positions, but the line didn’t feature a single other player with a competent grade in 2016. Michael Johnson, Domata Peko, Pat Sims, and Will Clarke all saw more than 350 snaps, with none of them grading higher than 46.6.

 

In 2010 our top tackler was Dhani Jones.  The next year he was out of football.  Your stats do not change what my eyeballs are seeing and the Bengals DIDN'T pay him almost the exact same amount he made in 2016 to stay.

 

Yeah, Fred, who you gonna believe, your statistics or his statistics and eyeballs?

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Peko plays for Denver so I really DGAF about him, but since this seems to come up on a regular basis..  

 

"Tackles" is an objective stat.  A "grade" isn't, nor a ranking, unless it's something quantifiable like "Top-ranked tackler".  

 

What does this even mean?

 

Quote

Lowest overall grade: DE Michael Johnson, 41.1

 

 

That's 41.1.. what, exactly? Did this come from PFF? They love to include decimal places so you know they are pretty much scientists.  Not just 41, but 41.1 defensive end units.  Riiiiight.

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11 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

 

Peko plays for Denver so I really DGAF about him, but since this seems to come up on a regular basis..  

 

"Tackles" is an objective stat.  A "grade" isn't, nor a ranking, unless it's something quantifiable like "Top-ranked tackler".  

 

What does this even mean?

 

 

 

That's 41.1.. what, exactly? Did this come from PFF? They love to include decimal places so you know they are pretty much scientists.  Not just 41, but 41.1 defensive end units.  Riiiiight.

Yeah, it does come from PFF and they do a decent job of ranking players.  If total tackles was the only metric, Dahani Jones would have gotten a fat new contract, not a gold watch and pat on the back on the way out.

 

If your defending Peko's play the last few years then you probably think Clay Matthews Jr. is still a great linebacker.

 

Most importantly the BENGALS didn't think giving Peko a 2 year deal for the same money he made the last 2 years was a good investment.

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2 hours ago, SF2 said:

Yeah, it does come from PFF and they do a decent job of ranking players.  If total tackles was the only metric, Dahani Jones would have gotten a fat new contract, not a gold watch and pat on the back on the way out.

 

If your defending Peko's play the last few years

 

Except I was clearly doing nothing of the sort.

 

"Tackles" is a meaningful stat.  It's not the only one, but it's a verifiable and known quantity that everyone understands, like sacks or TFL and so on.  It's easy to determine that having lots of tackles is better than having very few tackles.  It makes for an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

Conversely, a PFF grade is essentially meaningless as a basis for, well, much of anything.  It's subjective and fairly arbitrary, then made worse by the source pretending that it's accurate to 1/10th of a.. whatever it is.

 

This holds true even when applied to players that aren't Peko.

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On 6/1/2017 at 9:35 AM, SF2 said:

Yeah, it does come from PFF and they do a decent job of ranking players.

 

Actually, no, they do not at all.

 

In '15 they had Dre kirkpatrick ranked 112 behind a bunch of scrubs who barely played when in fact he was a top 30 CB in the league.

 

They use subjective rankings where 2 players can both do there job but one gets a zero and the other gets a 2.  then they plug those subjective scores into a formula that is so flawed it could rank one player ahead of another even though he plays fewer snaps and messes up more often.

 

PFF keeps some interesting stats, and they even have some decent "unit" rankings that are based on objective stats.  but their individual player rankings are worthless.

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22 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

"Tackles" is a meaningful stat.  It's not the only one, but it's a verifiable and known quantity that everyone understands, like sacks or TFL and so on.  It's easy to determine that having lots of tackles is better than having very few tackles.  It makes for an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

 

It is also important to note that all the other leaders in tackles are Pro Bowlers and All Pros. 

 

Shedding blockers is an underrated skill.  It does not matter if you can bench 600 lbs if you don't know how to use your hands to get off blockers.  When I was growing up I loved to practice football moves.  In fact, if I did not have an offensive lineman to practice against I would use my hands to get off myself.

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Once again, this dude is a DIE HARD Stealers' fan, why would he even think about the feelings of Bengals fans?  He was on TV talking to AJ saying "we have to get you out of Cincinnati".. C'mon.

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48 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

 

 

It is also important to note that all the other leaders in tackles are Pro Bowlers and All Pros. 

 

Shedding blockers is an underrated skill.  It does not matter if you can bench 600 lbs if you don't know how to use your hands to get off blockers.  When I was growing up I loved to practice football moves.  In fact, if I did not have an offensive lineman to practice against I would use my hands to get off myself.

 

:rsju31uh9:

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