Mock draft

[omgdrdoom]

43 minutes ago, Jpoore said:

I think right now he is at reggies level but he only started 1 year. The upside as he is expected to get better is ed reed. It could go either way.

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At Reggie Nelson's level coming out of college? Reggie's level in his prime? Reggie's current level?

I honestly don't understand the Nelson comparison whatsoever. Forget range, when does Hooker lay people out Nelson style? Reggie is a center fielder FS that hits like a SS should. I don't think Hooker is that type of player. I'm not saying this as a slight to Malik, as I've made it well known that he's one of the players I'd want in this draft if we had a top 5 pick or if he falls to #9. I just don't see the Nelson comparisons due to the heavy hitting Reggie has been known for.

[BlackBengal]

29 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

At Reggie Nelson's level coming out of college? Reggie's level in his prime? Reggie's current level?

I honestly don't understand the Nelson comparison whatsoever. Forget range, when does Hooker lay people out Nelson style? Reggie is a center fielder FS that hits like a SS should. I don't think Hooker is that type of player. I'm not saying this as a slight to Malik, as I've made it well known that he's one of the players I'd want in this draft if we had a top 5 pick or if he falls to #9. I just don't see the Nelson comparisons due to the heavy hitting Reggie has been known for.

Good point.  People are apparently forgetting that Reggie Nelson was a tremendous FS prospect.  I badly wanted the Bengals to draft him when he came out.  I think that if Hooker and Nelson (the prospect) were in the same draft, Nelson would be picked first.

[akiliMVP]

2 hours ago, Jpoore said:

Walker may go in the late first hes projected late first early second. Dude had 25 sacks last 2 years including the sencond most sacks in the fbs last year. Foreman and kpassagnon the love for them just isnt there. Butt injury history has apparently scared a lot of executives. Elflien u are probably right about. Was trying to make it semi realistic. I traded with indianapolis in the second and got their third. And i would say theres a good chance we draft williams.

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Literally nobody has walker going late first. He's a mid to late 2nd round pick. 

Foreman is widely considered a 2nd round pick now. Possibly early third.

Kpassgnon has size and athletic ability that is elite. Someone will fall in love with him and take him in round 2.

Williams is a reach at 9.

[spicoli]

I'll actually be shocked if Walker comes off the board before R3, and I think that's being fairly generous.

good college player with nice stats but limited athletically with not a real big upside for the pro game.

[omgdrdoom]

33 minutes ago, akiliMVP said:

Literally nobody has walker going late first. He's a mid to late 2nd round pick. 

Foreman is widely considered a 2nd round pick now. Possibly early third.

Kpassgnon has size and athletic ability that is elite. Someone will fall in love with him and take him in round 2.

Williams is a reach at 9.

I think a huge issue with this year's draft is that we're picking in the top 10 and there are far fewer top tier prospects than usual.

The tier 2 list is enormous (which is great) but tier 1 is shallow as fuck.

WTS, I'd personally rather take the #1 WR over the #4 or #5 edge rusher with the 9th overall pick. I think it makes more sense regardless if WR is a huge need or not.

[Jason]

2 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

I think a huge issue with this year's draft is that we're picking in the top 10 and there are far fewer top tier prospects than usual.

The tier 2 list is enormous (which is great) but tier 1 is shallow as fuck.

WTS, I'd personally rather take the #1 WR over the #4 or #5 edge rusher with the 9th overall pick. I think it makes more sense regardless if WR is a huge need or not.

Even if the 4th edge rusher carries a better grade than the #1 WR?

[|kennethmw|]

4 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

I think a huge issue with this year's draft is that we're picking in the top 10 and there are far fewer top tier prospects than usual.

The tier 2 list is enormous (which is great) but tier 1 is shallow as fuck.

WTS, I'd personally rather take the #1 WR over the #4 or #5 edge rusher with the 9th overall pick. I think it makes more sense regardless if WR is a huge need or not.

If you've got the guy you want, you pick him.  Forget all this tier 1 and tier 2 Bullshit.  In 2011, gabbert, Locker and Ponder were rated above Dalton.  How'd that work out?  

[Jpoore]

Literally nobody has walker going late first. He's a mid to late 2nd round pick. 
Foreman is widely considered a 2nd round pick now. Possibly early third.
Kpassgnon has size and athletic ability that is elite. Someone will fall in love with him and take him in round 2.
Williams is a reach at 9.

Plenty of mocks out there that have him going late 30's to early 40's. He has been better than any defensive end the last 2 tears in this draft. Williams is not a reach at 9. He would be a steal at 9. Hes the best wr and would put this offense over the map. Mccshay and kiper both gave us a reciever in their latest mock. Probably wont be there. Foreman is probably the 6th or 7th rb taken. No teams neeed a rb tbat much in the firat 2 rounds.

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[Jpoore]

I'll actually be shocked if Walker comes off the board before R3, and I think that's being fairly generous.
good college player with nice stats but limited athletically with not a real big upside for the pro game.

How so? He basically plays the same as barnett, but is a lot faster and more agile. He got better every year in college and is the heir apparent at rde. I would take him over johnson every time. Best swim move in cfb.

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[omgdrdoom]

13 hours ago, kennethmw said:

If you've got the guy you want, you pick him.  Forget all this tier 1 and tier 2 Bullshit.  In 2011, gabbert, Locker and Ponder were rated above Dalton.  How'd that work out?  

Hundreds of players were rated above Antonio Brown, Tom Brady, Geno Atkins, Elvis Dumervil, and Richard Sherman.....how'd that work out?

It's such a lazy and illogical argument that you're making. There's a reason top prospects are top prospects. Sometimes the "experts" get it wrong and everybody fully comprehends that, but that doesn't mean you should take a lesser prospect because Andy Dalton is better than Christian Ponder.

I won't have a problem with Barnett if he ends up our guy, I just hate seeing the #4-5 pass rusher become our top 10 pick. If there were any good QBs or LTs in this draft, we'd be looking at the 2nd or 3rd best rusher which I'd have less of a problem with. As I said though, I'll be OK with Barnett.

[Jason]

Again, why do you care if he's the "4th best DE" if he is the best player available? 

[omgdrdoom]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Again, why do you care if he's the "4th best DE" if he is the best player available? 

Because I'm not sure if he's the absolute, no questions asked best player available.

It looks like he'd be the BPA of immediate needs and not the BPA in general.

I think Mike Williams is a better prospect than Derek Barnett even though we could use another good DE more than another good WR.

Barnett is growing on me, but he isn't a unanimous top 10 pick like Garrett, Thomas, Adams, etc. Some of the "experts" don't even have him going until the end of the 1st. Mike Williams is "graded" higher than some of the guys like Barnett by most resources I've seen, but I've also seen him lower than guys like Reddick which is ridiculous IMO. It all comes down to your personal preference for these guys because a lot of them are close.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, omgdrdoom said:

Because I'm not sure if he's the absolute, no questions asked best player available.

It looks like he'd be the BPA of immediate needs and not the BPA in general.

I think Mike Williams is a better prospect than Derek Barnett even though we could use another good DE more than another good WR.

Barnett is growing on me, but he isn't a unanimous top 10 pick like Garrett, Thomas, Adams, etc. Some of the "experts" don't even have him going until the end of the 1st. Mike Williams is "graded" higher than some of the guys like Barnett by most resources I've seen, but I've also seen him lower than guys like Reddick which is ridiculous IMO. It all comes down to your personal preference for these guys because a lot of them are close.

Well then say "better prospect" as opposed to "4th best DE" and "best WR".   

[omgdrdoom]

15 minutes ago, Jason said:

Well then say "better prospect" as opposed to "4th best DE" and "best WR".   

My points with that is just that it's frustrating that we finally pick in the top 10 again and we want a pass rusher. Cool, we'll be able to get a top prospect then, right? Not necessarily due to the lack of quality at other positions that usually go in the top 10.

Look at the current projections for the top 10 and then pretend there was a legitimate LT and 1-2 big QB prospects coming out this year. Things would obviously look quite different, so I think it's just a matter of the Bengals immediate needs not lining up very well with this draft class when it comes to the upper echelon prospects. Regardless of anyone saying otherwise, tier 1 prospects are considered tier 1 for a reason. They're less prone to bust and typically have higher floors and higher ceilings as well. Yeah, Tom Brady and Antonio Brown and blah blah blah blah blah, but the point remains that first rounders are first rounders and top 10 picks and generally top 10 picks for a very good reason.

IMO, I would have rather picked #9 in almost every other draft class of the past decade instead of this one, I'd rather have 3 2nd rounders and 0 first rounders this year to be completely honest.

[|kennethmw|]

8 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

Hundreds of players were rated above Antonio Brown, Tom Brady, Geno Atkins, Elvis Dumervil, and Richard Sherman.....how'd that work out?

It's such a lazy and illogical argument that you're making. There's a reason top prospects are top prospects. Sometimes the "experts" get it wrong and everybody fully comprehends that, but that doesn't mean you should take a lesser prospect because Andy Dalton is better than Christian Ponder.

I won't have a problem with Barnett if he ends up our guy, I just hate seeing the #4-5 pass rusher become our top 10 pick. If there were any good QBs or LTs in this draft, we'd be looking at the 2nd or 3rd best rusher which I'd have less of a problem with. As I said though, I'll be OK with Barnett.

No, actually it's a lazy and illogical argument that you are making. You are assuming that the 4th rated DE is a lesser player than the first receiver.  There is no criteria that would automatically make the best player at one position better than the fourth or even tenth at another.  If I've got a 95 rating on the fifth rated DE and a 90 on the 1st rated WR, what logical reason would exist to select the WR?  

[omgdrdoom]

3 hours ago, kennethmw said:

No, actually it's a lazy and illogical argument that you are making. You are assuming that the 4th rated DE is a lesser player than the first receiver.  There is no criteria that would automatically make the best player at one position better than the fourth or even tenth at another.  If I've got a 95 rating on the fifth rated DE and a 90 on the 1st rated WR, what logical reason would exist to select the WR?  

I explained it above. I don't feel the #4 pass rusher is better than the #1 WR in this draft class even though I feel we need a pass rusher more than a WR.

[|kennethmw|]

9 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

I explained it above. I don't feel the #4 pass rusher is better than the #1 WR in this draft class even though I feel we need a pass rusher more than a WR.

Oh, I'm sorry, I was not informed that your opinion was the only one that mattered.  My bad!

[omgdrdoom]

Just now, kennethmw said:

Oh, I'm sorry, I was not informed that your opinion was the only one that mattered.  My bad!

When did I say it was?

I was just explaining why I said I'd hate to take the #4 pass rusher with the #1 WR on the board. I think the WR is the better prospect and happens to be the best WR (probably) in the draft.

I made a statement, you disagreed, then I clarified my stance. You're making some nice strawman arguments though, I must say.

[|kennethmw|]

2 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

When did I say it was?

I was just explaining why I said I'd hate to take the #4 pass rusher with the #1 WR on the board. I think the WR is the better prospect and happens to be the best WR (probably) in the draft.

I made a statement, you disagreed, then I clarified my stance. You're making some nice strawman arguments though, I must say.

No strawman argument here.  Just two.  1st, the professionals often can't determine the difference between the highest rated and the fifth rated, and two, just because you are highest at your position, it doesn't make you higher than someone determined to be lower rated at theirs.  It's called logic.

[omgdrdoom]

11 hours ago, kennethmw said:

No strawman argument here.  Just two.  1st, the professionals often can't determine the difference between the highest rated and the fifth rated, and two, just because you are highest at your position, it doesn't make you higher than someone determined to be lower rated at theirs.  It's called logic.

The strawman is your comment claiming that I said or implied that my opinion is the only one that mattered. I wouldn't be on here if I didn't give a shit about anyone else's thoughts. So now that that's cleared up....

I've made the comment "I'd rather have the #1 WR than the #4 pass rusher" and while I've put specific names in since, the reason I didn't to begin with is that everybody hasn't been in 100% agreement on who the best WR or what the exact order of pass rushers happens to be. So again, let me clarify. I NEVER said the #1 WR will always be graded higher than the #4 pass rusher in every draft class and every situation, I've never once said that. I've only made my previous statement while referring to this specific draft class.

I'd rather have Williams/Davis (one of those guys is clearly the #1 WR) over Barnett/Reddick/Charlton/McKinley/Harris/Williams or whoever else people believe to be the #4 pass rusher.

AGAIN, my point is that since Garrett, Thomas, and Allen will all almost 100% be off the board, I'd rather have the #1 WR (whether you think it's Williams or Davis) over any pass rusher in the draft not named Garrett, Thomas, or Allen.

Barnett is growing on me so I won't hate it when we likely take him, but I still think Williams or Davis (whoever the team views "better") would be a better prospect than the 2nd tier of pass rushers this time around. Feel free to disagree with me, but that's what I mean and have meant with my quote and hopefully it's understood now.

[|High School Harry|]

[akiliMVP]

I don't understand any argument for a WR in the first round

[omgdrdoom]

4 hours ago, akiliMVP said:

I don't understand any argument for a WR in the first round

LaFell is only on a 2 year deal that has an easy out for the team after this season. 

Tyler Boyd may be seen as the slot receiver of the future but not the outside threat that he was at Pitt.

After that we have our KR and Core.

Gio is a nice piece of our passing game but if he is projected to be injured to start the year, we could use another weapon for Andy.

I'd think Howard would be our pick but we aren't carrying a million TEs on the roster and the team seems to like Uzomah and Kroft.

WR is one of the last positions I'd want with no other context than looking at our roster without considering contracts and who is available in the upcoming draft, but if Williams is there and he's BPA then there are definitely some reasons to consider him. 

[Jpoore]

I don't understand any argument for a WR in the first round

Colts offense with peyton manning enough said. We hopefully wont be picking in top 15 for another 5 years. When are we going to have the chance to draft a number 1 wr again? U let williams take over the 2 foe a couple years then switch as green hits 32, 33 and slows down williams becomes the 1 and green the 2.

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[akiliMVP]

1 hour ago, Jpoore said:

Colts offense with peyton manning enough said. We hopefully wont be picking in top 15 for another 5 years. When are we going to have the chance to draft a number 1 wr again? U let williams take over the 2 foe a couple years then switch as green hits 32, 33 and slows down williams becomes the 1 and green the 2.

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How many super bowls did the colts win with all those guys (Harrison and Wayne) at receiver? Also Dalton isn't Manning.

The Pats had garbage at receiver. Falcons had 1 stud, like us. Super bowl. Last year Panthers and Patriots. Same idea. Year before Seahawks and Pats. Again. 

Green is a stud. Top 3 receiver in the NFL. He's 28, not 40. He has 5 good years left. Boyd is a 2nd round pick going into his 2nd year. LaFell just got a new 2 year deal. Core showed a lot in a little time. 

Any receiver will be the #4 receiver AT BEST their rookie year. Not to mention losing catches to Eifert and Gio.

Williams is not a top 10 pick. Neither is Ross or Davis. If there was a surefire stud receiver I could maybe see it. There isn't one in this draft.