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How many super bowls did the colts win with all those guys (Harrison and Wayne) at receiver? Also Dalton isn't Manning.
The Pats had garbage at receiver. Falcons had 1 stud, like us. Super bowl. Last year Panthers and Patriots. Same idea. Year before Seahawks and Pats. Again. 
Green is a stud. Top 3 receiver in the NFL. He's 28, not 40. He has 5 good years left. Boyd is a 2nd round pick going into his 2nd year. LaFell just got a new 2 year deal. Core showed a lot in a little time. 
Any receiver will be the #4 receiver AT BEST their rookie year. Not to mention losing catches to Eifert and Gio.
Williams is not a top 10 pick. Neither is Ross or Davis. If there was a surefire stud receiver I could maybe see it. There isn't one in this draft. 

Thats bc manning is the greatest regular season qb of all time. How many 12 or 13 win seasons Did they have? Pats have the goat at coach and they still lpst that game if not for horrible coaching. In all reality the pats havent won a sb in 15 years. Lafell has 0 guarenteed second year and is on the wrong side of 30. And what exactly did core show? His inability to run routes? Green will be 29 when the season starts. He has 3 elite years left. Boyd is a Jamison crowder an elite slot wr. Williams was elite against elite corners. Hes a top 10 pick. Hes better than watkins, hopkins, and bryant. 3 years from.now when we dont have a elite number 1 youll be clamoring for a wr. Draft one now and dont worry about it.

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5 minutes ago, Jpoore said:


Thats bc manning is the greatest regular season qb of all time. How many 12 or 13 win seasons Did they have? Pats have the goat at coach and they still lpst that game if not for horrible coaching. In all reality the pats havent won a sb in 15 years. Lafell has 0 guarenteed second year and is on the wrong side of 30. And what exactly did core show? His inability to run routes? Green will be 29 when the season starts. He has 3 elite years left. Boyd is a Jamison crowder an elite slot wr. Williams was elite against elite corners. Hes a top 10 pick. Hes better than watkins, hopkins, and bryant. 3 years from.now when we dont have a elite number 1 youll be clamoring for a wr. Draft one now and dont worry about it.

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The Pats won a super bowl 2 months ago

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On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 10:31 AM, omgdrdoom said:

Because I'm not sure if he's the absolute, no questions asked best player available.

It looks like he'd be the BPA of immediate needs and not the BPA in general.

I think Mike Williams is a better prospect than Derek Barnett even though we could use another good DE more than another good WR.

Barnett is growing on me, but he isn't a unanimous top 10 pick like Garrett, Thomas, Adams, etc. Some of the "experts" don't even have him going until the end of the 1st. Mike Williams is "graded" higher than some of the guys like Barnett by most resources I've seen, but I've also seen him lower than guys like Reddick which is ridiculous IMO. It all comes down to your personal preference for these guys because a lot of them are close.

imo, Barnette & Howard should both be ranked around 9 & 10....

the Wr's more like 12-thru 15....

but that's just my view....

at this point we're almost nit-picking....

b/c they're all close together...

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14 minutes ago, Jpoore said:


Due to horrible coaching. 3 running plays and a field goal game is over. Same with seahawks lynch gets ball game is over.they realistically havent won a sb in 15 years.

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This is the dumbest shit I've read in a while 

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5 hours ago, akiliMVP said:

How many super bowls did the colts win with all those guys (Harrison and Wayne) at receiver? Also Dalton isn't Manning.

The Pats had garbage at receiver. Falcons had 1 stud, like us. Super bowl. Last year Panthers and Patriots. Same idea. Year before Seahawks and Pats. Again. 

Green is a stud. Top 3 receiver in the NFL. He's 28, not 40. He has 5 good years left. Boyd is a 2nd round pick going into his 2nd year. LaFell just got a new 2 year deal. Core showed a lot in a little time. 

Any receiver will be the #4 receiver AT BEST their rookie year. Not to mention losing catches to Eifert and Gio.

Williams is not a top 10 pick. Neither is Ross or Davis. If there was a surefire stud receiver I could maybe see it. There isn't one in this draft. 

1. More Super Bowls than we have in the history of our franchise.

2. Yep, I do agree that you don't NEED tons of elite talent at WR to win the big one, but it surely doesn't hurt to have some good receiving options.

3. Here's where I really disagree and think some people are imagining things. Core played around 250 snaps on offense and looked good on about 2 catches last year. I'm not saying I expect a whole lot from a 6th round rookie, but "showed a lot in a little time" is just a flat out lie. Core did not show a lot of anything except that he was a 6th round draft pick for a reason.

4. Mike Williams would be the WR2 on this team. I'm not thrilled with Boyd, Eifert, and Gio losing looks in the pass game, but Williams isn't going to be taken #9 overall to be WR4 (aka our 6th receiving option).

5. I don't see why he wouldn't be a top 10 pick. His tape says he's a stud and he didn't just light it up against bum secondaries or anything. I'll be surprised if either Williams or Davis are available after pick 15 this year to be honest. They both seem like they'll translate very well to the NFL, but I don't think Ross will.

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9 hours ago, Jpoore said:


Why? They get credited with a win but there should be an asterick next to it. U dont think bengals fans think there should be an asterick next to the Stealers playoff win against us?

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They've won 5 Super Bowls in the timeframe that you claim that "in reality they haven't won a SB in 15 years".

They've won FIVE, 5, cinco, cinq in the past 15 years in actual reality. Nothing you say will change that fact.

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22 hours ago, akiliMVP said:

Any receiver will be the #4 receiver AT BEST their rookie year. Not to mention losing catches to Eifert and Gio.

that's crazy talk.... a) there are plenty of young studs that come in every year and make an impact, no reason whatsoever to think the Bengals can't get that at #9 this year .... b) we have no idea whatsoever what we're gonna get from Gio in 2017.....and even if Gio is back to 100% (highly unlikely), why can't we have both??

why does everyone think we have to replace guys with that pick, why can't we just ADD to and enhance what we've already got?

everyone wants DL, I get it....I have a really hard time believing though that any of the DL that might still be on the board at 9 will grade out ahead of any number of guys on offense that are sure to still be sitting there....I don't see a single DL in this draft not named Thomas, Allen or Garrett that would grade out ahead of Davis, Williams, Howard, Cook, McCaffrey or Fournette. 

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42 minutes ago, spicoli said:

that's crazy talk.... a) there are plenty of young studs that come in every year and make an impact, no reason whatsoever to think the Bengals can't get that at #9 this year .... b) we have no idea whatsoever what we're gonna get from Gio in 2017.....and even if Gio is back to 100% (highly unlikely), why can't we have both??

why does everyone think we have to replace guys with that pick, why can't we just ADD to and enhance what we've already got?

everyone wants DL, I get it....I have a really hard time believing though that any of the DL that might still be on the board at 9 will grade out ahead of any number of guys on offense that are sure to still be sitting there....I don't see a single DL in this draft not named Thomas, Allen or Garrett that would grade out ahead of Davis, Williams, Howard, Cook, McCaffrey or Fournette. 

Barnett grades out above them on nearly every single draft website that exists. Other than Fournette and Howard who I'm fine with taking.

I'm not impressed by any of the top receivers, Cook or McCaffrey. If we go receiver I'd rather have Godwin in round 2. Cook and especially McCaffrey are not every down backs in the NFL. Cook has injury/fumble/off the field concerns. McCaffrey is an undersized gadget player. 

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Barnett grades out above them on nearly every single draft website that exists. Other than Fournette and Howard who I'm fine with taking.
I'm not impressed by any of the top receivers, Cook or McCaffrey. If we go receiver I'd rather have Godwin in round 2. Cook and especially McCaffrey are not every down backs in the NFL. Cook has injury/fumble/off the field concerns. McCaffrey is an undersized gadget player. 

Lol, McCaffrey and Cook DO NOT need to be every down RB's...why is that so hard for people to grasp?

Both of them are every bit as good lined up at WR as they are at running the football....plus both can be dynamic players in the return game as well..8-15 carries, 5-8 catches and a handful of returns in any given game and we're gonna be talking about game changing type results.

I'm tellin ya, this draft is extremely deep at DL/EDGE but these dynamic speed guys that have the ability to change a game from any spot on the field are gonna be hard to come by once we get past the top 15-20.....now if they could trade back a few spots that would be great, but how likely is that really?

I'd almost be willing to bet that Fournette is their dream target but after that I'd say they'd put Ross, McCaffrey and Cook ahead of even Howard just for the simple fact that they can break open a game in a hurry and do it from multiple spots.

Game-breakers are just hard to come by and now they're sitting in a perfect spot to grab one....and all they've talked about all off-season was the need to add speed and playmaking ability.

Just how I see it is all.
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The one position I don't want with our top pick is a RB.  What a waste of a pick that would be.

Everyone seems to be back on board of taking RBs in the first round again after Zeke (a top-10 pick) led the NFL in rushing yards in his rookie year.  But the player that was second in rushing yards, and had a higher YPC than Zeke, was also a rookie that the Bears drafted in the 5th round!  And lets not forget that Zeke was running behind the best OL in the NFL.  Remember what DeMarco Murray (a 3rd round pick) did behind the Dallas OL a few years ago?  

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2 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

The one position I don't want with our top pick is a RB.  What a waste of a pick that would be.

Everyone seems to be back on board of taking RBs in the first round again after Zeke (a top-10 pick) led the NFL in rushing yards in his rookie year.  But the player that was second in rushing yards, and had a higher YPC than Zeke, was also a rookie that the Bears drafted in the 5th round!  And lets not forget that Zeke was running behind the best OL in the NFL.  Remember what DeMarco Murray (a 3rd round pick) did behind the Dallas OL a few years ago?  

Sure, Jordan Howard was a 5th rounder and turned into a good player (at least for 1 year). That leads some people to think it's easy. Just wait and draft your guy late! 

But finding a productive RB late in the draft is tough to do. 

Here are all the RBs from the 2016 draft taken rounds 3 thru 7:

 Kenyan Drake RB Alabama 3 10(73) Miami
 C.J. Prosise RB Notre Dame 3 27(90) Seattle
 Tyler Ervin RB San Jose State 4 21(119) Houston
 Kenneth Dixon RB Louisiana Tech 4 36(134) Baltimore
 Devontae Booker RB Utah 4 38(136) Denver
 Deandre Washington RB Texas Tech 5 4(143) Oakland
 Paul Perkins RB UCLA 5 10(149) NY Giants
 Jordan Howard RB Indiana 5 11(150) Chicago
 Wendell Smallwood RB West Virginia 5 14(153) Philadelphia
 Jonathan Williams RB Arkansas 5 17(156) Buffalo
 Alex Collins RB Arkansas 5 32(171) Seattle
 Andy Janovich FB Nebraska 6 1(176) Denver
 Dan Vitale FB Northwestern 6 22(197) Tampa Bay
 Derek Watt FB Wisconsin 6 23(198) Los Angeles
 Kelvin Taylor RB Florida 6 36(211) San Francisco
 Darius Jackson RB Eastern Michigan 6 41(216) Dallas
 Dwayne Washington RB Washington 7 15(236) Detroit
 Daniel Lasco RB California 7 16(237) New Orleans
 Keith Marshall RB Georgia 7 21(242) Washington
 Zac Brooks RB Clemson 7 26(247)

Seattle

That's 20 RBs. And only one (Howard) really "hit" to the point that he looks like a lead back going forward. That's 5%. (I guess if you take out the FBs, it's more like 1 out of 17 guys. So 6%)

I play dynasty fantasy football and have seen articles about "hit rates" per round at the skill positions and that's in the normal range. I think over the last 20 years the odds of a running back taken in the 4th-6th round having two or more 1,000 yard seasons is 8%. 

It's needle in the haystack with late-round skill position guys. 

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1 hour ago, happyrid said:

Sure, Jordan Howard was a 5th rounder and turned into a good player (at least for 1 year). That leads some people to think it's easy. Just wait and draft your guy late! 

But finding a productive RB late in the draft is tough to do. 

Here are all the RBs from the 2016 draft taken rounds 3 thru 7:

 Kenyan Drake RB Alabama 3 10(73) Miami
 C.J. Prosise RB Notre Dame 3 27(90) Seattle
 Tyler Ervin RB San Jose State 4 21(119) Houston
 Kenneth Dixon RB Louisiana Tech 4 36(134) Baltimore
 Devontae Booker RB Utah 4 38(136) Denver
 Deandre Washington RB Texas Tech 5 4(143) Oakland
 Paul Perkins RB UCLA 5 10(149) NY Giants
 Jordan Howard RB Indiana 5 11(150) Chicago
 Wendell Smallwood RB West Virginia 5 14(153) Philadelphia
 Jonathan Williams RB Arkansas 5 17(156) Buffalo
 Alex Collins RB Arkansas 5 32(171) Seattle
 Andy Janovich FB Nebraska 6 1(176) Denver
 Dan Vitale FB Northwestern 6 22(197) Tampa Bay
 Derek Watt FB Wisconsin 6 23(198) Los Angeles
 Kelvin Taylor RB Florida 6 36(211) San Francisco
 Darius Jackson RB Eastern Michigan 6 41(216) Dallas
 Dwayne Washington RB Washington 7 15(236) Detroit
 Daniel Lasco RB California 7 16(237) New Orleans
 Keith Marshall RB Georgia 7 21(242) Washington
 Zac Brooks RB Clemson 7 26(247)

Seattle

That's 20 RBs. And only one (Howard) really "hit" to the point that he looks like a lead back going forward. That's 5%. (I guess if you take out the FBs, it's more like 1 out of 17 guys. So 6%)

I play dynasty fantasy football and have seen articles about "hit rates" per round at the skill positions and that's in the normal range. I think over the last 20 years the odds of a running back taken in the 4th-6th round having two or more 1,000 yard seasons is 8%. 

It's needle in the haystack with late-round skill position guys. 

So your saying there is a chance.:10_wink:

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2 hours ago, happyrid said:

Sure, Jordan Howard was a 5th rounder and turned into a good player (at least for 1 year). That leads some people to think it's easy. Just wait and draft your guy late! 

But finding a productive RB late in the draft is tough to do. 

Here are all the RBs from the 2016 draft taken rounds 3 thru 7:

 Kenyan Drake RB Alabama 3 10(73) Miami
 C.J. Prosise RB Notre Dame 3 27(90) Seattle
 Tyler Ervin RB San Jose State 4 21(119) Houston
 Kenneth Dixon RB Louisiana Tech 4 36(134) Baltimore
 Devontae Booker RB Utah 4 38(136) Denver
 Deandre Washington RB Texas Tech 5 4(143) Oakland
 Paul Perkins RB UCLA 5 10(149) NY Giants
 Jordan Howard RB Indiana 5 11(150) Chicago
 Wendell Smallwood RB West Virginia 5 14(153) Philadelphia
 Jonathan Williams RB Arkansas 5 17(156) Buffalo
 Alex Collins RB Arkansas 5 32(171) Seattle
 Andy Janovich FB Nebraska 6 1(176) Denver
 Dan Vitale FB Northwestern 6 22(197) Tampa Bay
 Derek Watt FB Wisconsin 6 23(198) Los Angeles
 Kelvin Taylor RB Florida 6 36(211) San Francisco
 Darius Jackson RB Eastern Michigan 6 41(216) Dallas
 Dwayne Washington RB Washington 7 15(236) Detroit
 Daniel Lasco RB California 7 16(237) New Orleans
 Keith Marshall RB Georgia 7 21(242) Washington
 Zac Brooks RB Clemson 7 26(247)

Seattle

That's 20 RBs. And only one (Howard) really "hit" to the point that he looks like a lead back going forward. That's 5%. (I guess if you take out the FBs, it's more like 1 out of 17 guys. So 6%)

I play dynasty fantasy football and have seen articles about "hit rates" per round at the skill positions and that's in the normal range. I think over the last 20 years the odds of a running back taken in the 4th-6th round having two or more 1,000 yard seasons is 8%. 

It's needle in the haystack with late-round skill position guys. 

You are looking at this in the wrong way.  Only so many RBs will get a chance to get extended carries because there are only 32 teams and most of those teams already have established RBs.  

Many of those 20 RBs if given Zeke's or Howard's opportunity would probably have done great.  DeAndre Washington only got 83 attempts, but he averaged 5.3 YPC and was a good receiver.  Kenneth Dixon, Rob Kelly (UDFA),  CJ Prosise (5.7 YPC) and a whole bunch of others looked good/great in limited action.  Pretty much everyone that got a chance to carry the ball did pretty good.

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8 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

You are looking at this in the wrong way.  Only so many RBs will get a chance to get extended carries because there are only 32 teams and most of those teams already have established RBs.  

Many of those 20 RBs if given Zeke's or Howard's opportunity would probably have done great.  DeAndre Washington only got 83 attempts, but he averaged 5.3 YPC and was a good receiver.  Kenneth Dixon, Rob Kelly (UDFA),  CJ Prosise (5.7 YPC) and a whole bunch of others looked good/great in limited action.  Pretty much everyone that got a chance to carry the ball did pretty good.

No.

If that was true, those teams would be happy to roll with those guys as their starters this year. But Seattle went out and gave Lacy $5M+ this offseason despite drafting two RBs in the first 5 rounds last year. Oakland is looking at RBs early in the draft again and also talking about signing Marshawn Lynch. They clearly view Washington as just a change of pace guy. Washington badly wants a better back than Kelly that can catch and has some speed even though Kelly was decent last year. Their 2015 3rd rounder (Matt Jones) is a bust. Kenneth Dixon is suspended 4 games and not a lock for a big role when he returns. Baltimore is looking at taking a back again. 

You see so many of these teams get into this cycle where they are taking mid-round RBs year after year and not finding a difference-maker.

It's not easy to find runners with size, speed and ability to catch the ball. 

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7 minutes ago, happyrid said:

No.

If that was true, those teams would be happy to roll with those guys as their starters this year. But Seattle went out and gave Lacy $5M+ this offseason despite drafting two RBs in the first 5 rounds last year. Oakland is looking at RBs early in the draft again and also talking about signing Marshawn Lynch. They clearly view Washington as just a change of pace guy. Washington badly wants a better back than Kelly that can catch and has some speed even though Kelly was decent last year. Their 2015 3rd rounder (Matt Jones) is a bust. Kenneth Dixon is suspended 4 games and not a lock for a big role when he returns. Baltimore is looking at taking a back again. 

You see so many of these teams get into this cycle where they are taking mid-round RBs year after year and not finding a difference-maker.

It's not easy to find runners with size, speed and ability to catch the ball. 

Of the top 40 RBs in rushing yards last season 4 were first round picks.   We don't need to draft a RB at 9.

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I did absolutely no scientific research to reach this opinion but I feel like I'd rather roll with the strategy of drafting RBs in the 2nd-4th rounds and trying to get our o-line to learn how to run block before even considering investing a top 10 pick on a running back.

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One more thing about RBs.  They have very short primes.  Look at the top RBs from 2 years ago and it is a completely different group of guys than the the top RBs from this year.  Go back 4 years it is a another different set of guys.  

You don't see that at any other position.  I want a long-time great player with our top pick.  You rarely get that with an RB.  

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3 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

That observation is spot-on. Which boggles my mind because years ago, good RB's could go well into their 30's and still have great production. Are defenses THAT much better and defenders THAT much stronger? 

Its the Millennials. Yea I have no clue what the deal is. Who Knows.

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Barnett grades out above them on nearly every single draft website that exists. Other than Fournette and Howard who I'm fine with taking.
I'm not impressed by any of the top receivers, Cook or McCaffrey. If we go receiver I'd rather have Godwin in round 2. Cook and especially McCaffrey are not every down backs in the NFL. Cook has injury/fumble/off the field concerns. McCaffrey is an undersized gadget player. 

Theres a reason barnett is never mocked in the top 10 anymore. Hes almost exclusively being mocked around the 20s.

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10 minutes ago, Jpoore said:

Theres a reason barnett is never mocked in the top 10 anymore. Hes almost exclusively being mocked around the 20s.

I don't even have him in my top 30.....if I were picking the the 15-25 range, I'd take Harris or McKinley all day long over Barnett

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