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BlackJesus

** RD 1 - BENGALS select JOHN ROSS, WR **

Grade the Ross Pick ?  

83 members have voted

  1. 1. Grade the Ross Pick ?

    • A+
      11
    • A
      12
    • A-
      9
    • B+
      8
    • B
      10
    • B-
      8
    • C+
      1
    • C
      5
    • C-
      8
    • D
      2
    • F
      2
    • PUKABLE
      7


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Big Alice    1,043
 
Even if they didn't, that wasn't going to get fixed tonight. 

Right on.

The only thing the Bengals NEED is o-line. There was no value there, so the Bengals were kind of screwed.

If the protection isn't better next year, it makes absolutely no difference who was taken. Also, it could be argued that a legitimate burner like Ross makes opposing defenses play a little more honest in their pass rushing schemes.




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Mikey6866    64
1 minute ago, Mikey6866 said:

 

Keep bagging them groceries and maybe you'll become head stock boy and commander of the mock drafts of Krogers.

 

Just now, omgdrdoom said:

 

Why the constant personal attacks when somebody proves you wrong? All you had to say was "OK so he wasn't a consensus 1st rounder but a lot of reputable guys had him as a top 20 prospect at least."

 

Nope, fuck that, let's talk about our superior football knowledge and assume the person I'm arguing with has a shitty job. I'm sure you're a role model for many.

 

LOL.  You sure did prove me wrong.  You didnt deny the fact he was listed in the top 20 prospects by cbs.  Lets see there are 32 picks in the 1st round and your rated at #14 prospect.  Would you consider that a 1st round guy? or naw lets trust a mock from jerry.  Hes a regional manager for pepsi he knows what hes talking about.  He saw John Ross play against Alabama.  Rob Rang published many official pre and post combine mocks with players who arent even in the draft this year.  Your logic is saying john ross could be a consensus top 20 in rankings by everybody and if 10 mocks dont have him in the 1st round then he wasnt considered a 1st round pick.  Its borderline lunacy.

 

But you're right.  I really only post when somebody posts something that is so stupid that its crazy.  Dont worry, your safe zone is safe.  Talking football with you isnt much fun for me either.  I wont be repling to any more of this nonsense.

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omgdrdoom    289
1 minute ago, Mikey6866 said:

 

 

LOL.  You sure did prove me wrong.  You didnt deny the fact he was listed in the top 20 prospects by cbs.  Lets see there are 32 picks in the 1st round and your rated at #14 prospect.  Would you consider that a 1st round guy? or naw lets trust a mock from jerry.  Hes a regional manager for pepsi he knows what hes talking about.  He saw John Ross play against Alabama.  Rob Rang published many official pre and post combine mocks with players who arent even in the draft this year.  Your logic is saying john ross could be a consensus top 20 in rankings by everybody and if 10 mocks dont have him in the 1st round then he wasnt considered a 1st round pick.  Its borderline lunacy.

 

But you're right.  I really only post when somebody posts something that is so stupid that its crazy.  Dont worry, your safe zone is safe.  Talking football with you isnt much fun for me either.  I wont be repling to any more of this nonsense.

 

Naw man, I've just said over and over and over and over that he wasn't a consensus 1st rounder so I don't know why people are trying to act like he was now that the Bengals drafted him with a premium draft pick.

 

If you want to keep putting words into my mouth and not fully understand what my argument is, that's on you brother. I'm not saying John Ross is dogshit or that no one in the universe had him ranked highly, it just wasn't a slam dunk, everybody on earth agrees kind of situation like how Solomon Thomas, Myles Garrett, Jamal Adams, etc. were both before and after the combine. Hopefully you'll choose to actually argue against what I'm saying the next time you choose to come into my "safe space" for debate.

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Big Alice    1,043
 
Really???
 
Shows what I know.  Apparently they see something I'm not seeing,  and I hope it's not just because he has a 4.22 40.   If anything I would rather hope that he's more like the G.O.A.T, where even though Jerry Rice had a pretty average 40,  the thing with him is that no one could actually run him down...like where most good WRs have a second gear, Rice had a third...
 
Also,  since Ross is one of us now,  he better be stupid elite at running those slants, like Michael Irvin.  He masters that,  then the 4.22 becomes an effective weapon...


It's not just that he ran 4.22.

If you watch his tape, that speed actually shows up. His get-off is unreal. He's at top speed in just a couple steps.

He's a little short, but he's not a "small" guy. 5'11 is alright. He's taller than Desean Jackson and the the same height as Percy Harvin. If he shows their talent without the headaches those guy brought with them, it's a home run.


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alleycat    1,435

He was certainly a first rounder pre-combine, but who gives a shit?

 

The moment I saw him run that 40 I said "top 10 pick," as did a number of pundits. And he went in the top 10.

 

Gentlemen, he ran a 4.22 for chrissakes.

 

That's .2 better than an "elite" at WR 4.42.

 

Another way to look at that is that it's the same amount of time between an elite 4.42 WR and one that goes undrafted because he ran a 4.62. And he's not a track star, but a football player. He's also THE BEST inside slant guy I've ever seen. It's not just his long speed, it's his instant separation. In our timing based offense, and with our terrible OL, he's the best guy we could have picked.

 

I wasn't saying it on this board, but my argument predraft for Ross is that he's the one player on the offensive side of the ball that presents an immediate upgrade to the offense. An instant impact guy...and that's even if he doesn't get the ball much. 4.22 is speed that has to be respected. If you don't respect it, it's a TD. If you do respect it, your safeties have to be honest, you face 7 in the box, and there is extreme stress placed down the field, especially at the seams. Between Eifert and Green and now Ross, the defense will, literally, be stretched to its limits. And Ross doesn't even have to get the ball. Just by being there. So the pass game has taken a giant leap forward, and he's probably also the single biggest improvement to the run game too.

 

No more doubling AJ and stacking the box against the run to shut this team down.

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alleycat    1,435
1 hour ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

Stupidity is saying he was a "consensus" 1st rounder.

 

What the rational people that aren't lazy are saying is that there are plenty of mocks with him outside of the 1st round as well as the ones cherry picked with him as a 1st rounder from the other pages of this thread.

 

It's real easy for you to claim you're right when the only sources that matter are the ones that YOU feel "knows shit" because of confirmation bias.

Some people clearly don't follow the draft very closely.

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omgdrdoom    289
3 minutes ago, alleycat said:

Some people clearly don't follow the draft very closely.

 

He was #41 on Kiper's big board pre-combine.

#14 and then #21 in Kiper's updates after.

 

Todd McShay had him #32 on his big board pre-combine.

#20 after.

 

The fucking point that no one seems to fucking understand is that I've been saying all along to be cautious of guys that fucking jump in rankings purely due to the fucking combine.

 

If a single human being could comprehend and debate my actual point instead of just making condescending remarks about how my football knowledge is shitty or I don't follow the draft or that I work at Kroger, that would be amazing.

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turningpoint    150
Just now, omgdrdoom said:

 

He was #41 on Kiper's big board pre-combine.

 

#14 and then #21 in Kiper's updates after.

 

Todd McShay had him #32 on his big board pre-combine.

 

#20 after.

 

The fucking point that no one seems to fucking understand is that I've been saying all along to be cautious of guys that fucking jump in rankings purely due to the fucking combine.

 

If a single human being could comprehend and debate my actual point instead of just making condescending remarks about how my football knowledge is shitty or I don't follow the draft or that I work at Kroger, that would be amazing.

ugh you work at Kroger? you need to get a better job.

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Gremzz    31

At the very least he should be pretty spectacular on kick/punt returns until he fixes himself as a starter. I get the frustration of Bengals nation perhaps regarding others as a more dynamic pick, but you must admit, Ross has an extremely unique skillset.

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omgdrdoom    289
4 minutes ago, turningpoint said:

ugh you work at Kroger? you need to get a better job.

 

I'm not even 100% sure what Kroger is but I guess I work there since my football knowledge is so shitty that I recall John Ross not being mentioned as a 1st rounder or a top 10 pick by every single media outlet that exists.

 

I've shown multiple, legitimate outlets that prove that John Ross wasn't a consensus 1st rounder or top prospect pre-combine. I don't need to prove any more on that front. People can refuse to believe it all they want, fuck it.

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alleycat    1,435
3 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

He was #41 on Kiper's big board pre-combine.

#14 and then #21 in Kiper's updates after.

 

Todd McShay had him #32 on his big board pre-combine.

#20 after.

 

The fucking point that no one seems to fucking understand is that I've been saying all along to be cautious of guys that fucking jump in rankings purely due to the fucking combine.

 

If a single human being could comprehend and debate my actual point instead of just making condescending remarks about how my football knowledge is shitty or I don't follow the draft or that I work at Kroger, that would be amazing.

Kiper?!

 

I rest my case.

 

On certain other boards, people are following the draft religiously all year long.

 

Ross was on as many top 20 lists as he was off them.

 

Just because you tune into these things half-heartedly, and have what you think is an informed opinion, doesn't necessarily make it right. What's funny is that you're getting so worked up with your limited information.

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omgdrdoom    289
Just now, alleycat said:

Kiper?!

 

I rest my case.

 

On certain other boards, people are following the draft religiously all year long.

 

Ross was on as many top 20 lists as he was off them.

 

Just because you tune into these things half-heartedly, and have what you think is an informed opinion, doesn't necessarily make it right. What's funny is that you're getting so worked up with your limited information.

 

Yeah those people on certain other boards are more reputable than Mel Kiper.

 

Lol limited knowledge, is that really all you guys have that can't disprove what I'm saying?

 

Confirmation bias - check

Don't provide any facts of your own - check

Tell me I'm limited in knowledge - check

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Hooky    1,361
1 minute ago, alleycat said:

But anyway...

 

FASTEST

 

FOOTBALL PLAYER

 

EVER.

That was Renaldo Nehemiah and he sucked.

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membengal    1,122

1. He's not "just" a speed guy - he is a polished route runner and has ability to get open quickly short as well as go long. So teams have to respect him at both levels and he should come already able to run the full route tree.

 

2. We can't block shit up front, but there was NO ONE available at 9 that we should have taken for o-line. Would have been a laughable reach to do so. So how do you help best a shaky line? How about make it REALLY hard for teams to go more than seven in the box? How about make them think twice about blitzing? Yes? Because a guy with Ross's speed opposite AJ Green with Tyler Eifert on the field and Boyd in the slot means that teams can't easily load up in the box. At least they will have to think twice about it. And Ross's ability to get open quickly short will further take pressure off the line.

 

3. Not sure why anyone mentions Boyd at any point with reference to Ross. Ross isn't a pure slot guy, Boyd is (Ross CAN play slot, but he can line up anywhere - Boyd is simply a slot guy). And Boyd is a glacier compared to Ross in terms of speed.

 

4. He's a football player, who happens to be fast as shit, not a fast guy who's trying to play football. He spent his first few years as DB, before becoming a wide receiver. Speaks to his understanding of the field and his toughness. 

 

5. Since the team cleared him and his shoulder and said he will be ready for camp, I will take them at their word. I want him in a full camp, and assuming they are right, no health issues from me. In fact, that shoulder? He played the entire year last year with the torn labrum...so...that speaks pretty fucking highly of his toughness and willingness to be on the field ( I am a health-is-a-skill person). 

 

6. His size doesn't bother me. Not in a league where i have had to watch Antonio Brown and Steve Smith torch people. And Victor Cruz. Etc. Opposite AJ Green, I don't think Ross is going to see a lot of double teams anyway. And if a physical corner tries to body him off the line, they better pray they don't miss.

 

7. Saw on twitter last night, in Bengals last 40 games where they have scored 23 or more points they are 37-1-2. Crosses my mind that they need to make sure they have given themselves as much of an opportunity to score that many then as they can. Last year, without Marvin Jones in particular, they were stuck in mud as an offense. Ross helps fix that right away. 

 

So, to sum up, thrilled that they pulled the trigger on this. Makes them better from the jump (assuming they are not lying and/or wrong about his shoulder recovery), and gives me legit hope for 2017.

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omgdrdoom    289
3 minutes ago, alleycat said:

 

Ross was on as many top 20 lists as he was off them.

 

 

Yeah man, my entire point. Do you know what CONSENSUS means?

 

I said he wasn't a consensus 1st rounder/top prospect. Consensus. He wasn't Myles Garrett or Jamal Adams. That's the point. Comprehend now?

 

IMO you should be cautious of guys that jump purely due to the combine like Ross did on many big boards, rankings, and mocks. You are 100% free to disagree with that opinion but it does NOT change the fact that Ross wasn't a consensus top pick.

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sparky151    367

I"m not a fan of the pick. If we were going to take a player with injury history at 9, Jonathan Allen would have been a better choice. We already have a WR who is a deep threat and keeps defenses honest. Picking Ross seems like a mismatch of player and scheme/other personnel. Ross can get deep and open in a couple of seconds but can Ogbuehi protect Dalton very long? Dalton is famously not very strong armed and has to put more air under the ball on deep throws. So will the defense have time to recover and offset Ross's speed?

 

This seems like a pick by a coach who is a short timer rather than one taking the best player for the future. 

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alleycat    1,435
2 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

Yeah those people on certain other boards are more reputable than Mel Kiper.

 

Lol limited knowledge, is that really all you guys have that can't disprove what I'm saying?

 

Confirmation bias - check

Don't provide any facts of your own - check

Tell me I'm limited in knowledge - check

 

Before the pro-day process, Lance Zeirlein of NFL.com, historically one of the most accurate graders (just look at his grades right now on the Draft Tracker, and see who is gone and who is on the board and you'll notice everyone but character concerns are off the board in order) had him as high as top 10.

 

Walterfootball:

Quote

In the 2017 NFL Draft, Ross looks like a safe bet to be a mid- to late first-round pick. After the season teams told me that Ross graded as a first-rounder, and that was before his electric 40 time at the combine.

 

 

And here's an even better example:

 

Quote

The Verdict

Speed kills in the NFL, and John Ross has speed. By now you likely know that he broke Chris Johnson’s combine 40-yard dash record. Generally players that post great 40 times will get second looks from teams and will move up draft boards. Ross is no different, as you can see.

 

Site Pre-Combine Rank Post-Combine Rank Dif
Sports Illustrated 36 24 12
Fox Sports 17 17 0
CBS Sports 19 18 1
Yahoo Sports 15 14 1
SD Union Tribune 19 18 1
SB Nation 33 24 9
Bleacher Report 34 16 18
NFL.com 17 16 1
AVERAGE 23.8 18.4 5.4

 

Looking at mock drafts pre and post combine, you can see that in general Ross’ stock saw a slight increase by those publications that knew him well and a large jump from those that were not as familiar with him. 

While players’ 40 times are incredibly overvalued and don’t deserve the importance that is placed on them, John Ross is a special case. You can see his speed on tape and can witness how he is able to channel that into game changing plays. Ross will be able to have success at the next level, the degree of which will depend on how teams choose to use him.

 

 
 

 

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alleycat    1,435
7 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

Yeah man, my entire point. Do you know what CONSENSUS means?

 

I said he wasn't a consensus 1st rounder/top prospect. Consensus. He wasn't Myles Garrett or Jamal Adams. That's the point. Comprehend now?

 

IMO you should be cautious of guys that jump purely due to the combine like Ross did on many big boards, rankings, and mocks. You are 100% free to disagree with that opinion but it does NOT change the fact that Ross wasn't a consensus top pick.

Wah wah wah. We didn't draft one of the two best players in the draft, lol.

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omgdrdoom    289
3 minutes ago, alleycat said:

Wah wah wah. We didn't draft one of the two best players in the draft, lol.

 

Holy fuck, can you not read?

 

I never said anything about us taking him or not. Just that Ross wasn't a consensus top pick. I used Garrett and Adams as examples because they were a couple guys that were considered top 10 guys pre and post combine.

 

There are a lot of players who weren't consensus 1st rounders, Ross is one of them. You can come to terms with that or argue until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't make you right.

 

Nobody is crying that we didn't somehow end up with Myles Garrett, he was simply used as an example of a guy that didn't have a jump in rankings by multiple outlets. Your little chart up there shows that Ross did jump due to the combine. It's funny how they try to qualify it by claiming that the places that had him lower "were not as familiar with him". Or maybe they just didn't think his tape was as good as the others. Maybe? Nah, that can't be it.

 

JOHN ROSS FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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alleycat    1,435

 

So if we don't take a consensus first rounder, you are upset?

 

We should have never taken Carlos Dunlap or Geno Atkins or Vontaze Burfict or Chad Johnson or Andy Dalton. None of them were consensus first rounders, which means, in hindsight, no one should have taken them in the first round, right?

 

Maybe, just maybe, your need to have the national media make you feel better about the pick has nothing to do with how good of a football player someone is or isn't?

 

 

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omgdrdoom    289
2 minutes ago, alleycat said:

 

So if we don't take a consensus first rounder, you are upset?

 

We should have never taken Carlos Dunlap or Geno Atkins or Vontaze Burfict or Chad Johnson or Andy Dalton. None of them were consensus first rounders, which means, in hindsight, no one should have taken them in the first round, right?

 

Maybe, just maybe, your need to have the national media make you feel better about the pick has nothing to do with how good of a football player someone is or isn't?

 

 

 

No, I never said a single time that we need to take a consensus first rounder or I'm upset.

 

You're just making strawman after strawman. When did we take Carlos, Geno, Vontaze, Chad, or Andy with our #9 overall pick? :lol:

 

I care more about what I think of a guy than what the national media has to say about them, you should probably read back a couple pages and see where this debate came from before starting your bullshit.

 

This entire post of yours is extremely illogical and doesn't follow along with anything I've been saying at all.

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membengal    1,122

Danny Kelly at the Ringer sure liked it:

 

https://theringer.com/2017-nfl-draft-first-round-grades-c644ac57056f

 

 

Quote

 

9. Cincinnati Bengals: WR John Ross, Washington

Ross broke the combine’s 40-yard dash record when he ran it in 4.22 seconds, and that doesn’t even accurately capture how fast he is on the field. Joining A.J. Green and Tyler Eifert in Cincinnati, he will be a home run threat down the field for Andy Dalton on every snap. And since the former Husky is going to see a steady dose of big cushions from cornerbacks, he should factor into the short and intermediate areas, too. With four kick-return touchdowns in college, he also has plenty of value in the return game.

 

Fit: A

 

Value: A

 

 

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Jamie_B    2,769

I wanna know when is he gonna line up against a horse for a race? lol

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