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** RD 1 - BENGALS select JOHN ROSS, WR **

Grade the Ross Pick ?  

83 members have voted

  1. 1. Grade the Ross Pick ?

    • A+
      11
    • A
      12
    • A-
      9
    • B+
      8
    • B
      10
    • B-
      8
    • C+
      1
    • C
      5
    • C-
      8
    • D
      2
    • F
      2
    • PUKABLE
      7


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In reality, it doesn't really matter where mock drafts had him going, it matters where the Bengals had him graded. There's a reason some of these guys are drawing up mock drafts and aren't real general managers. The Bengals probably had John clustered in with a few other guys and the fact that they needed that speed dimension on the perimeter won out over a couple of defensive lineman that didn't test well and a linebacker with a multitude of risks. Had they gotten Will Fuller last year, I think the pick probably would have been Lattimore, but I also don't think they would have been picking 9th if they had more speed at split end.

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12 minutes ago, JC said:

In reality, it doesn't really matter where mock drafts had him going, it matters where the Bengals had him graded. There's a reason some of these guys are drawing up mock drafts and aren't real general managers.

 

 

You know, that appeal to authority thing is bad enough for implying that the coaches are incapable of being wrong, but even shakier in an organization with such a glaring lack of accountability.   The notion that they are automatically better qualified because of their job title falls flat when they've proven themselves incompetent in other areas, yet remain employed by the team.

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2 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

You know, that appeal to authority thing is bad enough for implying that the coaches are incapable of being wrong, but even shakier in an organization with such a glaring lack of accountability.   The notion that they are automatically better qualified because of their job title falls flat when they've proven themselves incompetent in other areas, yet remain employed by the team.

 

C'mon. There's a reason WalterFootball guys are sitting behind a computer plugging guys into perceived draft needs, sucking dicks for hits, while Duke Tobin and gang are breaking down film on 300+ prospects. They have 100X more knowledge on this stuff.

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Just now, JC said:

 

C'mon. There's a reason WalterFootball guys are sitting behind a computer plugging guys into perceived draft needs, sucking dicks for hits, while Duke Tobin and gang are breaking down film on 300+ prospects. They have 100X more knowledge on this stuff.

 

 

Marvin Lewis's kid works for an NFL team.  Gil Brandt writes mock drafts.

 

Which one would you say is more knowledgeable?

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I think what I like most about the pick now is all the complaining from people who have seen nothing other than a highlight clip and read a report on the kid.  They have already deemed him injured and crappy.  Its almost like people are wanting him to get hurt only so they can say I told you so.  On the field hes not just a speed guy he is a legit top 10 talent.  Im just happy that the Bengals FO made the pick.  Hes gonna be a stud.

Good, highly accurate stuff right here. It's almost as if being a Bengals fan has made some of these people pessimistic...

But I'm with you. All i see with Ross is yet another guy to make AJ and Eiferts and Andys jobs that much easier.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

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If he can do the same things as LegoHead does, then we will all forget about concensus' and Walter Football. 

 

If if he EVER decides to grow a doo like that Stealer prick though....:YouDontSay-min:

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12 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

Marvin Lewis's kid works for an NFL team.  Gil Brandt writes mock drafts.

 

Which one would you say is more knowledgeable?

His son is a quality control coach. Do you think he's doing anything more than charging the Ipads and sitting in on meetings? Let alone having ANY kind of say in their draft decisions?

 

I'm not saying there are not knowledgable people out there doing mock drafts. I think Mayock is very intelligent. The Bengals put a lot of time into watching his tape, checking his medical records, and meeting with him. To say he was a reach because some mock drafts had him going later than 9 doesn't hold as much weight as James Urban/Ken Z./Duke Tobin's opinion after all of their research.

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8 minutes ago, JC said:

His son is a quality control coach. Do you think he's doing anything more than charging the Ipads and sitting in on meetings? Let alone having ANY kind of say in their draft decisions?

 

I'm not saying there are not knowledgable people out there doing mock drafts. I think Mayock is very intelligent. The Bengals put a lot of time into watching his tape, checking his medical records, and meeting with him. To say he was a reach because some mock drafts had him going later than 9 doesn't hold as much weight as James Urban/Ken Z./Duke Tobin's opinion after all of their research.

 

I think every mock draft had him going later than 9, didn't they?  Not that it really matters now.

 

Anyway, I guess you have more faith in the team's coaches than I do.  I think they reached for a player based on a perceived need in a flawed offensive scheme.

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3 minutes ago, JC said:

His son is a quality control coach. Do you think he's doing anything more than charging the Ipads and sitting in on meetings? Let alone having ANY kind of say in their draft decisions?

 

I'm not saying there are not knowledgable people out there doing mock drafts. I think Mayock is very intelligent. The Bengals put a lot of time into watching his tape, checking his medical records, and meeting with him. To say he was a reach because some mock drafts had him going later than 9 doesn't hold as much weight as James Urban/Ken Z./Duke Tobin's opinion after all of their research.

 

:31:

 

Seriously though, it would just be nice to see some sort of study on players going "higher than expected" due to combine results and seeing their boom/bust ratio compared to the average kid being drafted in the top of the first round. There's a lot of subjectivity in there but it would be interesting to see some data.

 

Top draft picks bust all the time in general, and in my opinion it's even more risky to "overdraft" a guy that wasn't in a single person's top 10 pre-combine just because he ran a fast straight line test in spandex. That's all a lot of people are saying and trying to say and it keeps getting twisted and turned into all sorts of irrelevant debates.

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I don't have a link so take this with a grain of salt, but reportedly we were trying to move down to get Ross, but we didn't have a deal we liked so we staying and the rest is history.  Source:  Mike & Mike

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John Ross was 5'11 and 188 lbs. at the combine.  Is that small, or is that just about normal?  I was surprised when I looked at the sizes of the top-20 WRs (in passing yards) from last year.  11 out of the 20 were around Ross' size.  Many of them (7 to be exact) were actually shorter than Ross.  I think that people have an inflated idea of how big the good NFL WRs are because tall ones tend to get selected very high in the draft. 

 

Of the top-20 WRs in yards last season

 

TY Hilton (smaller than Ross)

Odell Beckham (same height, slightly heavier)

Antonio Brown (shorter than Ross)

Brandon Cooks (shorter than Ross)

Jarvis Landry (same height, but heavier)

Doug Baldwin (shorter than Ross)

Julian Eldelman (shorter, but a little heavier)

Golden Tate (shorter, but a little heavier)

Emmanuel Sanders (same size as Ross)

Deshaun Jackson (smaller than Ross)

Mike Wallace (a little taller and heavier than Ross)

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^ Ross is a smaller framed dude than some of the guys on that list.

 

With his injury history and his build, he just seems more fragile than the average "small" WR. I'm going to be nervous when I see a big safety or LB heading toward him over the middle for the first time.

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27 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

^ Ross is a smaller framed dude than some of the guys on that list.

 

With his injury history and his build, he just seems more fragile than the average "small" WR. I'm going to be nervous when I see a big safety or LB heading toward him over the middle for the first time.

I guess. But this is 2017, not 1987, and big safeties and linebackers can't really head hunt etc like they used to. At all. 

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Just now, membengal said:

I guess. But this is 2017, not 1987, and big safeties and linebackers can't really head hunt etc like they used to. At all. 

 

He's still going to take his share of shots on the field. Let's just hope none of them do any severe damage. It's really all we can do at this point, but I just can't believe a lot of people are acting as if his injury history shouldn't even be brought up.

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Aren't many top receivers that don't have injury issues these days. His injuries are scary, but I think I'd be more concerned if he dealt with soft muscle injuries on a consistent basis like Alshon Jeffery.

 

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36 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

^ Ross is a smaller framed dude than some of the guys on that list.

 

With his injury history and his build, he just seems more fragile than the average "small" WR. I'm going to be nervous when I see a big safety or LB heading toward him over the middle for the first time.

 

Weight fluctuates.  It is very likely that Ross puts on another 10 pounds of good weight over the next year or 2.  Most NFL players fill out, and weigh more in year 2 or 3 than they do as 21 year old rookies.  Height-wise, he is fine.  He is a little skinny, but that can be improved on.  His labrum tear in week 5 of last season, which he played through and fixed after the combine, may have prevented him from adding muscle up top.  

 

He isnt Tavon Austin or Andrew Hawkins who are very undersized.  He is more like Antonio Brown.  Actually, he is slightly bigger than Brown.  

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I know a lot of people had an issue with A.J. Green's lanky frame but he turned out to be OK. Ross is smaller but hopefully he'll beef up a bit and also not sustain any serious injuries like he did in college.

 

I wouldn't bet on him staying off the IR, but we can hope. I'm far more concerned with his ability, or lack thereof, to beat press coverage. I hope that practicing with some good press NFL CBs on our team can help him out with that.

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I think you can negate some of the press issues by making him the receiver that lines up off the LOS.

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I don't have a problem with his size.  If you can play, you can play.  His injury history is another thing.  It's not like Kenny Anderson is the QB here anymore throwing passes only where his receiver can catch it.  Dalton throws high.  A lot.  Ask Tyler Eifert.  Kid is going to get hit more than the average WR.  Hope he holds up.

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Back in the Day, when they took Ki-Jana Carter and he blew out his knee on one of his first pre-season carries, I was sick and it was really shitty luck, but I never considered him a "bust" - injuries happen.  In this case though, the injury history is there and it's frightening (especially when his slight frame is factored in).  If he spends most of his Bengal days on IR, he's a definite bust.  His speed is great and he makes some sick cuts, but he also seems to tackle himself too often.  I also wonder how he's going to fare getting off the LoS against pro corners as opposed to college kids.  Hope he proves me wrong, has a great season and makes AJ's life a lot easier. I've gotb a feeling that three years from now, we'll be looking back on about three or four kids we passed on saying, "Fuck, what if?"

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2 hours ago, membengal said:

I guess. But this is 2017, not 1987, and big safeties and linebackers can't really head hunt etc like they used to. At all. 

 

 

Tell that to Gio, Keith Rivers, Huber, etc etc

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Injuries are a concern with Ross. Could say the same exact thing about Jon Allen, Malik Hooker, Marcus Lattimore, Reuben Foster, etc. 

 

Most of these top guys have been banged up. And the ones who haven't been injured aren't immune from future injuries either. 

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At first I hated the pick because of the other players that the Bengals passed on, guys like Jon Allen, Derek Barnett, Reddick, etc..

 

I understand his speed and quickness are definitely elite, however I'm concerned with his injury history, specifically his knees. If he makes a lot of sudden moves and quick cuts then that is going to lead to knee problems because the human body isn't meant to go that fast then stop and start on a consistent basis. Derrick Rose, a player for the New York Knicks, is an excellent example as he was one of the best players in the NBA because of his speed and quickness. He was able to go from 0-60 very quick, stop on a dime, and accelerate again on an elite level, much like Ross. However, Rose has suffered multiple knee injuries and he is shell of his former self.

 

Being that Ross has already had multiple serious knee injuries this concern over his health is valid and is the main reason why I question this pick. Hopefully the Bengals can get a few productive seasons out of him before his body breaks down from the wear and tear. 

 

To me he seems like Eifert, a player that adds another dimension to the offense, but has real injury concerns that could limit his effectiveness. As it stands currently Ross isn't cleared to practice but he says he will be ready by July...where have I heard that before???? 

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