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Did the Bengals reach in the 2017 draft?


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The draft is finished and the early consensus from the media is all over the place. Some think the Bengals improved the most and some think they had one of the worst drafts in the NFL.

 

My question is do you think the Bengals reach for players that could have been available in later rounds?

 

  • John Ross was a guy not many people expected to go at #9 and he's currently not able to participate in any football related activities due to an injury,
  • Mixon was a wild card but it's reported that 28 out of 32 NFL team didn't have him on their draft board so out of the 4 that did how many had him as an option in the 2nd round?
  • drafting a kicker in the 5th round was an interesting move, especailly when you considered they didn't draft the all american from ASU but some guy with a worse %.

 

Overall I thought the Bengals made a lot of questionable decisions that displayed an bit of desperation on the part of the coaching staff, which when you consider that Marvin is in the final year of his deal it makes sense...kind of. It's a high risk/high reward type of draft, they clearly had certain players targeted in the first 2 rounds and went after them regardless of what happened around them.

 

Also, not drafting an offensive lineman until the 5th round was a head scratcher, but clearly this franchise knows what it takes to win....clearly. 

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Ross couldn't do much (anything?) anyway because of the participation rules.  His school has to graduate before he could do anything. 

 

Was he a reach?  Maybe. But in this case I don't care. He brings a unique skill set to this team and if you really think we don't need it watch a couple of our games from last year then watch the Super Bowl again. The speed on that field was above and beyond ours.    

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Ross might have been a slight reach! However adding Mixon in the Second made up for it. Mixon should have gone top 10-15. Enough Said! As for a kicker in the 5th. It is about time we became pro-active in the kicker market instead of re-active. I think they did well to sow Elliott up before he got taken. As for the rest of the draft - i believe we got value in multiple places. The result of this draft will be impact. I think that three or four of these guys will play from day 1. Thats an impact!

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ill never understand these posts. just think logicaly about this. we could have traded back but what if the guy they wanted was gone??? to gain a extra 3rd pick and a guy you dont really want? odds of both being busts is hi when you consider a 3rd rounder. who cares. also what if there was no trade partner??? 49ers had foster #3 on their board apparently.

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2 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

 

  • John Ross was a guy not many people expected to go at #9 and he's currently not able to participate in any football related activities due to an injury,

 

 I suspect that was a reach, I don't like drafting an injured player in the top 10.

 

Quote

Mixon was a wild card but it's reported that 28 out of 32 NFL team didn't have him on their draft board

 

 

 

I don't believe them.  I'd bet 32 of 32 teams were ready to draft him at some point.  Doubt he makes it out of the 3rd round, at worst early 4 on Saturday when most fans have tuned out.  We got him first, so it's easy PR for other teams to climb on the grandstand with the rest of the ESPNFL & wag their fingers. 

 

9892408_the-shame-nun-from-game-of-thron

 

 

 

Quote

  drafting a kicker in the 5th round was an interesting move, especailly when you considered they didn't draft the all american from ASU but some guy with a worse %

 

 

 

The scouts say Elliot has better hang-time on KO and better overall mechanics.  Gonzalez was practically kicking in a dome at Sun Devil.   Maybe he could've been had with the comp pick later but they finally drafted OL there.  I can't get that worked up over 5th-round picks anyway.

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I saw another report that 16 of 32 teams had Mixon on their board. So who knows...

 

Pretty sure it was reported that Buffalo was targeting a WR, though Ross might not have been one of their targets. They ended up trading up in round 2 for the next WR off the board (Zay Jones). 

 

With the kicker, I don't think it mattered if they took him 5th or 6th round. Their round 5 targets were Eliot, Evans and Dielman and they got all of them, so the order they used worked. 

 

Also, I think you have to take all rankings with a major grain of salt. That's especially true of the kicker rankings. I doubt these draft analysts are spending hours and hours scouting the kickers. And our well respected special teams coach spent 100s of hours, worked each out individually, psychological testing, background work, etc. I don't understand why you would trust a random internet evaluation over what Darrin Simmons says. 

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16 hours ago, Jason said:

Ross couldn't do much (anything?) anyway because of the participation rules.  His school has to graduate before he could do anything. 

 

Was he a reach?  Maybe. But in this case I don't care. He brings a unique skill set to this team and if you really think we don't need it watch a couple of our games from last year then watch the Super Bowl again. The speed on that field was above and beyond ours.    

If they are calling him a reach because he should've gone later in the round, I don't buy that if they wanted that player in the first round and he wasn't going to be there in the second.

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I guess at the end of the day the Bengals clearly are in win now mode and have zero fucks to give about what anyone thinks, including the fans.

 

They wanted John Ross and Joe Mixon in this draft because they felt they could add the most to their team and they got them, so hats off to those guys. They are going all in with the guys they hand picked; Ogbuehi, Pacman, Burfict, Fischer, Ross, Mixon, Dalton, Bodine, etc...

 

This is going to be a hell of a ride this year, either it's going to be fantastic or a shit show...can't wait to see how Marvin and co. handle this lame duck year. 

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John Ross at 9 wasn't a reach, at all.

Obviously, it'd have been a better "value" if the Bengals had been able to trade 6 spots and still get him. However, he would not have stayed on he board much longer. With Corey Davis and Mike Williams already gone, any team looking to add a receiver was going to take Ross. The drop off to the next group (Curtis Samuel and Zay Jones) was pretty significant.




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1 hour ago, Big Alice said:

John Ross at 9 wasn't a reach, at all.

Obviously, it'd have been a better "value" if the Bengals had been able to trade 6 spots and still get him. However, he would not have stayed on he board much longer. With Corey Davis and Mike Williams already gone, any team looking to add a receiver was going to take Ross. The drop off to the next group (Curtis Samuel and Zay Jones) was pretty significant.




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Samuel and Jones don't have Ross's injury history either, they are capable of participating in the off season training that is crucial to a young player's development. Look Ced Ogbuehi, he was injured during the draft process and didn't participate in the offseason work, that put his career on a path that has lead to him getting benched for a journeyman vet. Every time someone questions a coach why Ced sucks they always come back to the "he was injured and didn't get a chance to train in the offseason" season excuse, hell Ced uses it himself. It seems like the Bengals are going down a similar path with Ross.


If Dalton called Ross and said let's get together to throw so we can get our timing down and be ready for the season Ross wouldn't be able to participate because his shoulder is banged up and he hasn't been cleared medically. Here is a link to a good article about Ross's injury history and where he is currently..

Quote

 

http://thehuskyhaul.com/2017/02/17/washington-husky-wr-john-ross-iii-surgery-scheduled-after-nfl-combine/

 

“The recovery depends upon many factors, such as where the tear was located, how severe it was and how good the surgical repair was. It is believed that it takes at least four to six weeks for the labrum to reattach itself to the rim of the bone, and probably another four to six weeks to get strong. Once the labrum has healed to the rim of the bone, it should see stress very gradually so that it can gather strength. It is important not to reinjure it while it is healing.

 

 

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3 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

This is going to be a hell of a ride this year, either it's going to be fantastic or a shit show...can't wait to see how Marvin and co. handle this lame duck year. 

 

Agree. Give me an A or an F. Either way, I want to be entertained. 

 

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Ross was probably a reach, but really was a great fit for what Cincy needs on offense. If he pans out, he will be a game changer. I look at Hill in KC. If you get that guy enough touches something big is going to happen. I am hoping Ross brings that to Cincy. 

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1 hour ago, Sigfox09 said:

Ross was probably a reach, but really was a great fit for what Cincy needs on offense. If he pans out, he will be a game changer. I look at Hill in KC. If you get that guy enough touches something big is going to happen. I am hoping Ross brings that to Cincy. 

Does anybody else see JJ Nelson?

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A Ross wasn't "great value" at 9. However, he was indisputably one of the best three receivers in this class. That group of three was head and shoulders better than the next group that were projected at the top of the second round.

The Bengals obviously had a very high grade on Ross. To get him they really had to take him at 9. Had they traded down half a dozen spots, there's a really good chance he'd have been gone.

Just ask the Packers. The story is they wanted T.J. Watt, and were sure they could trade down and still get him. They moved down from 29 to 33 - and got screwed by the Stealers who took Watt at 30.


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I guess it depends how you personally define "reach".

 

John Ross wasn't a top 10 prospect overall in this draft class. Has was taken at #9. Therefore, I can't really argue with anyone calling him a "reach" if that's how the person views a reach.

 

However, somehow we went to bizarro world in the draft and there were already 2 WRs taken off the board by pick #9. Ross wasn't going to make it much further down the line because, as people have stated in this thread, the top tier of WRs was widely viewed as much, much better prospects than the 2nd tier. If the Bengals really, really, really wanted a WR, they had to take Ross here with no other option. I heavily disagreed with the pick at the time and I still don't like it myself, but I can at least understand it if the Bengals were set on WR early.

 

Same with Mixon. Who knows how far he would have slid down the board, but someone was going to take a chance on him at some point. There's no guarantee that we'd have been able to take him with a 3rd rounder and a team could have even traded up to get him if they saw our 3rd round pick upcoming with Mixon still on board. I think Mixon was less of a "reach" than Ross for the simple fact that he'd have been a 1st rounder or even a top 10/15 prospect without that video existing. Taking top tier talent in the 2nd round due to red flags isn't a "reach" IMO because he wasn't going to fall to UDFA-land like Burfict did.

 

I didn't like the kicker pick at first, but folks have talked me into it 100%. I now think this was one of the most well scouted picks in our draft to be honest. People have been throwing out tons of stats to compare the kickers and a lot of nuances of their kicking game in comparison to one another, and man, I really do think we got the right guy. Not a reach. I like taking the 1st kicker off the board even if it was "early" just to make sure you get your guy, especially when you have 10+ damn draft picks.

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8 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

I guess it depends how you personally define "reach".

 

John Ross wasn't a top 10 prospect overall in this draft class. Has was taken at #9. Therefore, I can't really argue with anyone calling him a "reach" if that's how the person views a reach.

 

However, somehow we went to bizarro world in the draft and there were already 2 WRs taken off the board by pick #9. Ross wasn't going to make it much further down the line because, as people have stated in this thread, the top tier of WRs was widely viewed as much, much better prospects than the 2nd tier. If the Bengals really, really, really wanted a WR, they had to take Ross here with no other option. I heavily disagreed with the pick at the time and I still don't like it myself, but I can at least understand it if the Bengals were set on WR early.

 

Same with Mixon. Who knows how far he would have slid down the board, but someone was going to take a chance on him at some point. There's no guarantee that we'd have been able to take him with a 3rd rounder and a team could have even traded up to get him if they saw our 3rd round pick upcoming with Mixon still on board. I think Mixon was less of a "reach" than Ross for the simple fact that he'd have been a 1st rounder or even a top 10/15 prospect without that video existing. Taking top tier talent in the 2nd round due to red flags isn't a "reach" IMO because he wasn't going to fall to UDFA-land like Burfict did.

 

I didn't like the kicker pick at first, but folks have talked me into it 100%. I now think this was one of the most well scouted picks in our draft to be honest. People have been throwing out tons of stats to compare the kickers and a lot of nuances of their kicking game in comparison to one another, and man, I really do think we got the right guy. Not a reach. I like taking the 1st kicker off the board even if it was "early" just to make sure you get your guy, especially when you have 10+ damn draft picks.

 

I'm going to say something that is rarely said around these parts...you make some good points, I agree...see folks it's not that hard.

 

My only regret out of this draft is that the Bengals didn't get one better OL prospects earlier, but when you look at the players they added in the first 4 rounds and how the draft transpired it's hard to be see who they were supposed to pick. Guys like Elflein and Feeney were selected just before the Bengals picked and they got quality players at positions of need in rounds 3 & 4. 

 

If the offensive line can play good football this is a playoff caliber team with the talent on the roster. 

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30 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

I guess it depends how you personally define "reach".

 

John Ross wasn't a top 10 prospect overall in this draft class. Has was taken at #9. Therefore, I can't really argue with anyone calling him a "reach" if that's how the person views a reach.

 

However, somehow we went to bizarro world in the draft and there were already 2 WRs taken off the board by pick #9. Ross wasn't going to make it much further down the line because, as people have stated in this thread, the top tier of WRs was widely viewed as much, much better prospects than the 2nd tier. If the Bengals really, really, really wanted a WR, they had to take Ross here with no other option. I heavily disagreed with the pick at the time and I still don't like it myself, but I can at least understand it if the Bengals were set on WR early.

 

Same with Mixon. Who knows how far he would have slid down the board, but someone was going to take a chance on him at some point. There's no guarantee that we'd have been able to take him with a 3rd rounder and a team could have even traded up to get him if they saw our 3rd round pick upcoming with Mixon still on board. I think Mixon was less of a "reach" than Ross for the simple fact that he'd have been a 1st rounder or even a top 10/15 prospect without that video existing. Taking top tier talent in the 2nd round due to red flags isn't a "reach" IMO because he wasn't going to fall to UDFA-land like Burfict did.

 

I didn't like the kicker pick at first, but folks have talked me into it 100%. I now think this was one of the most well scouted picks in our draft to be honest. People have been throwing out tons of stats to compare the kickers and a lot of nuances of their kicking game in comparison to one another, and man, I really do think we got the right guy. Not a reach. I like taking the 1st kicker off the board even if it was "early" just to make sure you get your guy, especially when you have 10+ damn draft picks.

 

Just so I understand the logic here...based upon this nebulous definition, which player could the Bengals have drafted at #9 that wouldn't have been a "reach"?

 

Was it Foster who slid to 31? Allen who fell to 17? Barnett or Hooker who went 14 or 15?

 

It doesn't really matter what guys were ranked by the media pre-draft. NFL obviously viewed the value of these guys differently. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

 

I'm going to say something that is rarely said around these parts...you make some good points, I agree...see folks it's not that hard.

 

My only regret out of this draft is that the Bengals didn't get one better OL prospects earlier, but when you look at the players they added in the first 4 rounds and how the draft transpired it's hard to be see who they were supposed to pick. Guys like Elflein and Feeney were selected just before the Bengals picked and they got quality players at positions of need in rounds 3 & 4. 

 

If the offensive line can play good football this is a playoff caliber team with the talent on the roster. 

 

Yeah I can totally see why some people believe the picks to be reaches and I don't even like all the picks myself, but what were we really going to do instead? That's how I've been rationalizing it even though I didn't love the draft, it was solid in the context of what was happening around our picks.

 

Sure, I wanted Allen, Lattimore, or Hooker over Ross, but there are strong arguments to be made that Hooker & Lattimore aren't close to being needs and Allen obviously has some medical issues himself. I don't know, I guess the team really likes Ross and I hope they're right and that all of us hating on the pick are wrong.

 

Mixon is a matter of how you feel about the off the field incident. I don't think a single person can question his ability as a running back in the modern day NFL.

 

I wanted OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, but it was like every good OL prospect magically disappeared right before our picks, that was heartbreaking. If I was solely in charge on the Bengals draft, I likely would have gone a different direction at times, but hey, they have a scouting department for a reason and it ended up looking reasonable to me even though the best OL prospects all went before we could grab them.

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1 minute ago, happyrid said:

 

Just so I understand the logic here...based upon this nebulous definition, which player could the Bengals have drafted at #9 that wouldn't have been a "reach"?

 

Was it Foster who slid to 31? Allen who fell to 17? Barnett or Hooker who went 14 or 15?

 

It doesn't really matter what guys were ranked by the media pre-draft. NFL obviously viewed the value of these guys differently. 

 

 

 

Nah, that's actually an illogical way of looking at it. Just because Hooker went 15 overall doesn't mean that NFL teams viewed him as the 15th best prospect. Team needs alone are the tip of the iceberg that throw that "logic" out the window.

 

I'm just saying there were a handful of top tier prospects in this draft and you usually want one of those guys with a top 10 draft pick. I don't feel we got one in Ross. Again, it all comes down to how you define "reach", it's a subjective term. It's also impossible for this to be factual, but I'd bet everything I own that if every NFL team was polled and had to make a big board of overall prospects, John Ross wouldn't have been in the top 10 for at least 30 of those teams. That's my opinion on the matter, hence why I mentioned multiple times that "reach" is just how a person defines it. You can't tell me I'm factually wrong for calling Ross a reach just like I can't tell you you're factually wrong for your POV either.

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