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Notes: emotional Ross graduates; Mixon down to 229; Dielman set to be cleared


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16 minutes ago, schotzee said:

I suppose another measure could be how many games have we won as opposed to lost on questionable calls that directly influenced the outcome of the game?

 

I assume the ones where we lost have stuck in your mind so you probably remember more of them.

 

I also assume that if I went back and watched a bunch of games and pointed out huge calls in our favor, they'd not be considered "questionable calls" by a lot of people on here.

 

It's all subjective in the end, we can leave it at me believing that NFL officials are inconsistent because they can be and are human beings and can't always get every call 100% "right", and you go with small market teams get hosed intentionally. It's fine if you want to believe that, I just disagree with that strongly. I'll say that I do believe bad calls happen, and hell, some of them could even be intentional at times, I just don't think it runs rampant through the sport on a regular basis. There are some shady people in every occupation, referees aren't above that, but I don't think it's some huge, elaborate Roger Goodell conspiracy theory.

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9 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

I assume the ones where we lost have stuck in your mind so you probably remember more of them.

 

I also assume that if I went back and watched a bunch of games and pointed out huge calls in our favor, they'd not be considered "questionable calls" by a lot of people on here.

 

It's all subjective in the end, we can leave it at me believing that NFL officials are inconsistent because they can be and are human beings and can't always get every call 100% "right", and you go with small market teams get hosed intentionally. It's fine if you want to believe that, I just disagree with that strongly. I'll say that I do believe bad calls happen, and hell, some of them could even be intentional at times, I just don't think it runs rampant through the sport on a regular basis. There are some shady people in every occupation, referees aren't above that, but I don't think it's some huge, elaborate Roger Goodell conspiracy theory.

Hahaha. Fair enough. I'm still stewing over that so called TD catch by Martsvis Bryant 2 years ago in that playoff game. Do you think we would have gotten the same benefit of that call if the situation was reversed? Yes or no? Even if you say yes I'll leave it at that.

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52 minutes ago, schotzee said:

Certain players/teams most often get the benefit in crucial calls. Happens in the NBA all the time. Has for years.

 

 

I agree with this.....in part.

 

The best hitters in baseball have a smaller strike zone.  The best players in the NBA get the benefit of the doubt all the time.  And certain NFL teams have more calls go in their favor.  I think most sports fans would agree with this.

 

But the players and/or teams have to become good before they start getting these calls.  Joey Votto did not begin his career with a smaller strike zone.  He started getting more calls when he proved he had an elite hitters eye.  Michael Jordan did not get all the calls in his favor his rookie season.  And the Patriots did not get more calls in their favor back in the '80's and '90's.

 

If the Bengals win a few Super Bowls then refs will start looking at them differently and they will start getting more calls in their favor.

 

Refs don't intentionally favor certain players and teams over others.  Instead it is just a subconscious decision based on the perception that bad players/teams screw up more than the good ones.  In fact I see the same effect on many people here.  Bill Belichik could make the exact same decision under the exact same cirumstances as Marvin Lewis and many people here would praise Bill and crucify Marvin.

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5 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

 

 

 

 

If the Bengals win a few Super Bowls then refs will start looking at them differently and they will start getting more calls in their favor.

 

 Bill Belkichik could make the exact same decision under the exact same cirumstances as Marvin Lewis and many people here would praise Bill and crucify Marvin.

These things I could probably agree with as well. It makes for a frustrating journey for fans of these teams though.

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1 hour ago, schotzee said:

Hahaha. Fair enough. I'm still stewing over that so called TD catch by Martsvis Bryant 2 years ago in that playoff game. Do you think we would have gotten the same benefit of that call if the situation was reversed? Yes or no? Even if you say yes I'll leave it at that.

 

The flip catch? I mean, by the rules and prior calls made, subjectively, it's a catch. I was drunk and pissed off when it happened in real time but I've watched it dozens of times since then and completely understand how it could be ruled a catch, especially when it was initially a catch on the field. You can't really overturn that.

 

What about #DezCaughtIt??? Dallas has a much larger market than those cheese heads in bumfuck Wisconsin. That's a very controversial call right there, the Martavis one, not so much.

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2 minutes ago, schotzee said:

Yes the flip catch. He absolutely did not maintain control. It went from his hands to his ass midair. I believe the refs said later they got it wrong.

 

It was Blandino (VP of officiating, not on the field) that said that he didn't believe it was a catch, but they shouldn't have overturned it once it was ruled a catch.

 

The maintaining possession rules are so subjective that I can see why Bengals fans or anti-Stealers fans would have an issue with it, but it was the right call to keep it as it stood after calling it a catch on the field. The guy you're trying to use to prove how it wasn't a catch agrees, so obviously you should now too, right? :thumbsup:

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1 minute ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

It was Blandino (VP of officiating, not on the field) that said that he didn't believe it was a catch, but they shouldn't have overturned it once it was ruled a catch.

 

The maintaining possession rules are so subjective that I can see why Bengals fans or anti-Stealers fans would have an issue with it, but it was the right call to keep it as it stood after calling it a catch on the field. The guy you're trying to use to prove how it wasn't a catch agrees, so obviously you should now too, right? :thumbsup:

Ok, so I ask you again, do you believe we get the call in reversed scenario.

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Just now, schotzee said:

Ok, so I ask you again, do you believe we get the call in reversed scenario.

 

Yeah I don't see why not. I'm not a guy that believes there's an anti-Bengals, pro-Stealers bias in the officiating.

 

There have been bad calls in Bengals/Stealers games for sure, look at the non-call on the Gio hit in that same game. That was bullshit. Doesn't prove a bias, but it was still total bullshit IMO.

 

Do you think Vontaze should have been flagged for kneeing Big Jen in the shoulder after the injury-sack in that playoff game? That was a bonehead move in my eyes, it was a very blatant knee strike but wasn't going to do much damage so I'm not sure what Burfict was going for exactly. It happened though, and it was a huge non-call for us.

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4 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

Yeah I don't see why not. I'm not a guy that believes there's an anti-Bengals, pro-Stealers bias in the officiating.

 

There have been bad calls in Bengals/Stealers games for sure, look at the non-call on the Gio hit in that same game. That was bullshit. Doesn't prove a bias, but it was still total bullshit IMO.

 

Do you think Vontaze should have been flagged for kneeing Big Jen in the shoulder after the injury-sack in that playoff game? That was a bonehead move in my eyes, it was a very blatant knee strike but wasn't going to do much damage so I'm not sure what Burfict was going for exactly. It happened though, and it was a huge non-call for us.

Of course Tez shouldn't have been flagged. Haha jk. I guess we'll agree to disagree. 

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9 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

 

 

The Cowboys don't get beat up by the media because they don't have a bunch of shithead players doing shithead things.

 

 

LOLWUT!?

 

 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/5/23/15680874/cowboys-defense-suspension-david-irving

 

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Suspensions are nothing new for the Cowboys, who have seen their defensive line take a big hit in recent years. Randy Gregory, a 2015 second-round pick, got a 10-game suspension in 2016 and is currently serving a full one-year ban after failing multiple drug tests. Demarcus Lawrencetook a four-game suspension last year, while linebacker Rolando McClain’s career resurgence was cut short by a one-year suspension handed down last season.

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/brent-180-days-crash-killed-cowboys-teammate-article-1.1590325

 

Quote

Former Dallas Cowboys player Josh Brent avoided prison Friday and instead was sentenced to 180 days in jail and 10 years of probation for a drunken car crash that killed his friend and teammate, Jerry Brown.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/05/29/cowboys-cornerback-nolan-carroll-arrested-dwi/102300618/

 

Quote

Dallas Cowboys cornerback, Nolan Carroll was arrested by Dallas Police for a DWI early Monday morning.

 

 

http://www.espn.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/12508402/dallas-cowboys-greg-hardy-agree-one-year-deal

 

Quote

Although Hardy could face a league suspension for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy, the team said it agreed to terms with the former Carolina Panthers defensive end on Wednesday.

 

And let's not forget that Dallas traded for Pacman while he was still suspended.  

 

 

Here's a graph of team arrests 2010-2015

 

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 Bengals are more or less average in that regard & obviously this is a league-wide problem.  Note that Denver is 2nd only to the Vikings in arrests.  How many "Broncos are thugs" takes have you seen?

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, High School Harry said:

 

Dang!  We gotta try harder to make it to the top.  Cutting Maualooloo is going to hurt but we still have Pacanimal.  Who He? rookies are always good for a dumbass attack or two.

 

 

Not really.  The entire team could go get ordained, donate all their money & worldly goods to charity, and all go live in a cave tending to injured animals and orphans & we're still going to be a team of "thugs".

 

The NFL needs a whipping boy to make it look like they're addressing the issue (if there even is an issue, I'm not sure the NFL has any more or less criminals working for them than, say, Wal-Mart) and the Bengals are currently it.  Until another small-market team they don't really care about has a string of arrests, or a star player does something.. Well actually?  Gangland murders weren't enough for us to relinquish the title, so IDK.

 

Of course when you have an owner who protects the players no matter how big of an ass they make of themselves, that doesn't help.  

 

OTOH as discussed above, "the Cowboys don't get beat up in the media" despite going out of their way to trade for total fuck-ups, because that media is heavily invested in the Cowboys maintaining their reputation.  Pretty telling when people who are otherwise well-informed are duped by all that.

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The local media in DFW worships the ground the Cowboys walk on. Read the print version of the Dallas Morning News sometime: if the midweek edition in June is 10 pages long...6 of those pages deal with the Cowboys. No different on the Telly. TO is actually still liked there, so if Randy Gregory wants to body slam a few more women, no one in Big D will give a hoot. 

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On 6/24/2017 at 7:29 PM, T-Dub said:

 

The NFL needs a whipping boy to make it look like they're addressing the issue (if there even is an issue, I'm not sure the NFL has any more or less criminals working for them than, say, Wal-Mart) and the Bengals are currently it.  Until another small-market team they don't really care about has a string of arrests, or a star player does something.. Well actually?  Gangland murders weren't enough for us to relinquish the title, so IDK.

 

Of course when you have an owner who protects the players no matter how big of an ass they make of themselves, that doesn't help.  

 

OTOH as discussed above, "the Cowboys don't get beat up in the media" despite going out of their way to trade for total fuck-ups, because that media is heavily invested in the Cowboys maintaining their reputation.  Pretty telling when people who are otherwise well-informed are duped by all that.

 

1. The part I put in bold is something I do agree with regardless of our past differences. I do believe the Bengals get the "thug" moniker unfairly by a LOT of uninformed doofuses and the media runs with it too. 2005 was how long ago now? But still, we did earn that reputation with the GM/owner and HC that gave us the 2004-2006 Cincinnati Criminals. We need another team to fuck up as badly as we did 10 years ago to hopefully get the shit off of us, but we also need Vontaze to stop punching people in the dick and Pacman to stop being a shithead too. Overall though, I think we would agree on the fact that we've been no more "thugs" than the average NFL team as of late, so it kinda sucks that we still get that label. We can't pretend that those years didn't happen though they were long enough ago that you'd think people could let it go, but that won't happen until we go without on AND off the field problems for at least a few years running, and that's tough for any NFL team.

 

2. The Cowboys weren't the best example I could have used, but the point does still stand. If you think the Cowboys' arrests that you listed even comes CLOSE to what we did back in the mid 2000's, well, ya know, I'm sure you can see the difference. You listed a dude getting a DUI and another guy that wasn't even on the roster for a day after the arrest as examples...you know better man. I didn't say that the Cowboys had 0 arrests, just that they don't have shitheads running rampant on the team. Gregory is a turd and we all know about Greg Hardy, but I don't like the DUI example because even Leon Hall got hit with one of them and it didn't get blown out of proportion just because he was on the Bengals. I'm sure you can find some stupid analyst or some asshole fans that made a comment about Leon's DUI "typical Bungal hahahaha!!!" or something similar, but some of the media probably didn't even realize he got a DUI because it was close to a non-story. Sure I could have probably picked a team with even less issues, but the Cowboys are hardly the 2004-2006 Bengals.

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The cowboys havent been relevant in the NFL in terms of winning in the playoffs for 20 years, up until this year.  If there was some conspiracy, that certainly wouldnt be the case.  The problem is, The Bengals draft college fuckups (with on or off the field transgressions) and bring in free agents with baggage constantly.  MOST transgressions can be me with redemption.  However, when its happening a second, third, and fourth time... you deserve the stigma attached to you by the masses.  Thats just the fucking way it is.  From my perspective, the Bengals are fucking relevant, or nobody would even be talking about them.  There is no Conspiracy.  You earn everything that comes your way.  Unfortunately, the Patriots have earned lofty praise for their play on the field and Bengals have earned being the butt of the joke by getting swallowed up in big time games along with having players who do stupid shit and ultimately become easy targets for the media and 31 other teams' fans.  They have the power to change it.  Expect it to FAIRLY continue until then.    

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14 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

2. The Cowboys weren't the best example I could have used, but the point does still stand. If you think the Cowboys' arrests that you listed even comes CLOSE to what we did back in the mid 2000's, well, ya know, I'm sure you can see the difference.

 

 

I'm afraid I can't.  How does anything Chris Henry or Odell Thurman did compare to Greg Hardy?  Dude beat the shit out of his gf, turned in an arsenal to police, then got arrested for cocaine possession.  Remind me what our '05 team did exactly because other than Henry's weird brandishing incident outside of some club all I remember are DWI's or drunk & disorderly-type piss-ant stuff.  None of them killed a teammate driving drunk, I remember that much.

 

I'd also point out that '05 was more than ten years ago. Look at Denver's arrest numbers since then.  I had no idea their team had been in so much trouble.  If the Bengals somehow deserve the "thug" label so does the entire NFL.  This shit's kinda crazy to me, honestly; I thought after Goodell's inept handling of the Ray Rice situation the fans had had enough of his double standards.   Guess not?

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13 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

The Russians did not interfere in the elections.

 

The sun will set at Noon tomorrow.

 

No player in the NBA has ever traveled.

 

TMZ is a legitimate news site.

 

The sun revolves around the earth.

 

 

Can you also confirm chocolate milk comes from brown cows and that pro wrestling is not fake?? Thanks!

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7 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

I'm afraid I can't.  How does anything Chris Henry or Odell Thurman did compare to Greg Hardy?  Dude beat the shit out of his gf, turned in an arsenal to police, then got arrested for cocaine possession.  Remind me what our '05 team did exactly because other than Henry's weird brandishing incident outside of some club all I remember are DWI's or drunk & disorderly-type piss-ant stuff.  None of them killed a teammate driving drunk, I remember that much.

 

I'd also point out that '05 was more than ten years ago. Look at Denver's arrest numbers since then.  I had no idea their team had been in so much trouble.  If the Bengals somehow deserve the "thug" label so does the entire NFL.  This shit's kinda crazy to me, honestly; I thought after Goodell's inept handling of the Ray Rice situation the fans had had enough of his double standards.   Guess not?

 

Nah Greg Hardy is a shitbag but what I meant with the Cowboys is that 1 or 2 shitty players shouldn't define a franchise, that was the difference I was talking about. We had a record setting string of arrests and the 2004-2007 Bengals were the first NFL team (to my knowledge) to have that happen. We kind of became the standard of off-the-field dysfunctional franchises. Not only does The Redeemer not give a shit, but he calls himself the fucking Redeemer LOL and we still draft players like Joe Mixon here in 2017 over a decade after getting the "thug" label. Honestly, I'm completely fine with our players embracing it and enjoying the vitriol while turning it into some "thug" attitudes on the field. It's whatever to me at this point, I just won't pretend that Mike Brown has done absolutely nothing for us to deserve what the media says about us (sometimes at least, I've mentioned some is undeserving).

 

Yeah Denver had a crazy number of arrests, I was sort of shocked by that too. I follow a lot of unbiased sources where I'll see arrests, suspensions, etc. on a regular basis and I never noticed so many Broncos being arrested over the past 8-ish years. I'd guess that we don't hear about them being such criminals because we don't really go out seeking Broncos articles and we aren't attached to websites that focus solely on the Broncos and everything Broncos. Do you get what I mean with this? We hyper focus the Bengals because we're Bengals fans, so obviously every article out there that's anti-Bengals is going to come to our attention and it's going to seem like some crazy bias. I do think, on average, we're picked on more than most teams because of the arrest history and the fact that we still play The Redeemer's game of character enlightenment. I think if you set a hyper focus on another franchise that you'd see some similar results. A group of my Stealers' fan friends thinks they're targeted by the league and that the Bengals/Ravens/Patriots get away with murder (zing). I don't agree with that either and I think those guys are nuts, but I'm just saying that to give a personal example of why I feel that maybe we're a bit biased ourselves with some of this shit.

 

In closing, I think we actually agree on a lot here and we're sort of picking nits at this point. I do believe the Bengals get hit harder than a lot of teams, but I also think at least some of it is justified because of our team's history. Some fans and media bash us unfairly, but a lot judge us in a very objective manner. As Bengals fans, we tend to focus more on the ones who aren't judging us fairly for whatever reason and ignore the others. If there's 15 "Bengals CB Leon Hall arrested for DUI" articles out there, everyone focuses on the 1 article written by a jank reporter with the headline "CRIMINAL BUNGLE Leon Hall THUGGISHLY ARRESTED FOR BEING A CRIMINAL ALCOHOLIC AND ALMOST KILLING CHILDREN WHILE DRIVING".

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