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4 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

You still aren't grasping the main point 'Doom...

 

No, the way back boys wouldn't stand a chance against the modern players for the most part, with rare exception.

 

The way the game was played, two way players, complete players who had to be tough. Receivers who had to work to get open against a guy literally mugging them every play. QBs that could take a hit without crying about their mangina breaking, and they'd get up and play the next play. LBs who really were terrors and hit people like football was originally designed. RBs who would block willingly, and NOT throw their gear into the stands.

Players who actually listened to their coaches, and if they didn't they rode the pine. No freaking TV timeouts, product placement BS... etc.

 

Try looking at it from that perspective, because that's where I'm coming from.

 

 

 

 

You are living in a fairy tale land.

 

Ever since the game was invented there were players that rebelled against coaches. 

 

And you are speaking pout of both sides opf your mouth when you claim that "sportsmanship" wa sthe rules in a period when opposing player literally tried to physically cripple the opponent.

 

QBs used to get up from hits because they weighed 200 lbs and the D-linemen weighed 250.  Now any D-lineman under 300 lbs is "small".  The impacts today are much bigger with much more force. 

 

The great players oF the past had the same gifts that make the players great today.  Just like the great race car drivers of the past had the same guts and daring of today's drivers, but the players in the past were just trapped in slower smaller bodies. 

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Fred: You and omg are attempting to prove points on issues that are not being questioned, but then are attempting to cornerstone these in the other areas--rendering all of it rhetorical at best.

 

Concession of the obvious--that NFL players are of different sizes and speeds now compared to 50-60 years ago--is not the alpha/omega point. Your buddy keeps wanting to play this make-believe subjective game of placing JJ Watt against Chuck Bednarik, and demanding that everyone believe JJ would simply dominate. I would still laugh in his face. 

 

What is a point of more believability--albeit rhetorical in its own right (I at least see rhetorical and subjective content as opposed to absolutes based on rhetoric and subjectivity)--is exactly what USN and I have been saying: the game was more real back then, because there were no oppressive regulatory burdens to interfere with the game. And His Highness can bloviate all he wishes about how this isn't so at all--but all one has to do is watch film of games back then, and compare to the present circus side-shows, in order to see reality.

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26 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

 

 

I feel like part of the reason this board is so dead compared to others is because people are driven away by the constant reminder that you're "trolling" and "flaming" when trying to spark a discussion on this otherwise ghost town of a board.

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17 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

I feel like part of the reason this board is so dead compared to others is because people are driven away by the constant reminder that you're "trolling" and "flaming" when trying to spark a discussion on this otherwise ghost town of a board.

I did not mean you.  I am very OK with your input but feeding the animals just encourages them.

However, makes for great reading.

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8 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

the game was more real back then, because there were no oppressive regulatory burdens to interfere with the game.

 

So you hate the forward pass?

 

There have always been rules.  New rules do not mean the game is no longer "real" unless you would prefer a pure melee where players are allowed to bite and gouge each others eyes out.

 

I enjoy football for the skill on display, not the injuries and brain damage.  I'd love to hear you explain to all the hudreds of NFL players who are seriously injured each year that they are not playing "real" football.

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It is hard to compare players from one era to another.  There is no doubt the players from the early NFL days were a bunch of tough guys.  But for most of the NFL it was a part time job trained and played during football season.  Even up thru the 70's most players had real jobs during the off season.  For the non-stars that was often a recruitment tool....the off-season job they were offered was why they came to town.

 

Charlie Bednarik was one tough SOB.  Who knows how good he would be if he trained under modern year round conditions.  Focusing on one position he might be the greatest of all time.  But to say someone like a JJ Watt or Von Miller wouldn't dominate back then is not true either.  Most any modern player wouldn't have to run through those guys...they would just blow by them before they even got up out of their stance time after time.

 

 

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LT... pearls before swine my brother, pearls before swine.

 

Good point 'Doom, although I don't believe Harry was referring to you either. Of course, the offseason means it's usually pretty dead here. Things will pick up and then there will be even MORE people to make the same accusations...LOL!

 

Glad you brought that up about the "real job in the off-season " Westside, most people don't realize that was the case.

 

Toast, you pick out tangents to try and make arguments about inconsequential bullshit. If you refuse to acknowledge the differences in the game, especially the mindset of the older era, then why even join the conversation?

For example, NO ONE said they preferred to ignore player safety or that they disregarded the injuries that occurred... but you decide to make that one of your points with your inflammatory "explain that to the hundreds of players injured each year" remark? The "forward pass", really? Once again, nobody said anything about that, but you had to try and make some kind of smart ass remark.

 

That is trolling my friends, disguised (poorly I might add) as an input to an adult discourse.

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1 hour ago, westside bengal said:

  But for most of the NFL it was a part time job trained and played during football season.  Even up thru the 70's most players had real jobs during the off season.  For the non-stars that was often a recruitment tool....the off-season job they were offered was why they came to town.

 

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, USN Bengal said:

 

Glad you brought that up about the "real job in the off-season " Westside, most people don't realize that was the case.

 

 

 

Trivia that I am sure you know but special teams players were/are referred to as the "taxi squad".

From St. Paul Brown and his early days with Cleveland before they moved to Baltimore.

He would get the non-starterd jobs driving cabs in the off season and probably during the season, too, to supplement their income.

Thus the taxi squad.

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1 hour ago, USN Bengal said:

 If you refuse to acknowledge the differences in the game, especially the mindset of the older era, then why even join the conversation?

 

The mindset of the players today is the same as it ever was.  The techniques may be different, but it is still a game of physical domination.  The players 40 years ago were no tougher than the players today.

 

The game is just as "real" as it ever was.

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6 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

 

The mindset of the players today is the same as it ever was.  The techniques may be different, but it is still a game of physical domination.  The players 40 years ago were no tougher than the players today.

 

The game is just as "real" as it ever was.

I'd argue that the players are as tough today. As I said before they played through injuries and pain more frequently than today's athletes. This is without benefit of modern rehab and medical treatment.

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16 minutes ago, schotzee said:

I'd argue that the players are as tough today. As I said before they played through injuries and pain more frequently than today's athletes. This is without benefit of modern rehab and medical treatment.

 

Is it possible that it's just smarter to not play through injury knowing you could miss a big payday if you'd happen to aggravate the injury? That's a bigger deal now than it was then, and I'd have to assume that at least plays some part in it.

 

Also, I'd argue that you don't even know 99% of the time if a guy (in the 60's or 2017, either way) is "playing through pain" or not. How would you possibly know that?

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8 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

Is it possible that it's just smarter to not play through injury knowing you could miss a big payday if you'd happen to aggravate the injury? That's a bigger deal now than it was then, and I'd have to assume that at least plays some part in it.

 

Also, I'd argue that you don't even know 99% of the time if a guy (in the 60's or 2017, either way) is "playing through pain" or not. How would you possibly know that?

I already suggested your 1st statement in my earlier post.

 

 

And assuming not all players are drama queens like big Jen, when you see a player limping , wincing etc. , that suggests to me they are playing through pain.

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2 minutes ago, schotzee said:

I already suggested your 1st statement in my earlier post.

 

Ah sorry I must have missed that. Well, what about the 2nd part then?

 

I'm genuinely curious because I hear the claim a lot that the older generations were tougher and whatnot, but I feel like it's nothing more than a myth. How would you know who is in pain and when they're playing through it or not? Just wondering if there's something I'm missing or if it's merely speculation that it happened more in the 50's than today for no real reason other than older people are viewed as more "tough" than today's youth, again, for seemingly no reason other than people want to shake their fist and be the alpha. Every generation thinks they're superior to the others for 1 reason or the other, and the time period we're talking about is the one where the "tough guy" older men seem to be from. Is it just the general perception of that generation or is it more than that?

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I guess certain things stick out to me more of players getting hurt going back in getting hurt, going back in. I have recollections of I think it was Kellen Winslow doing this in a particular game. Not a real old player , but still.. You have valid points though doom.

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Remembering games from the 60's and upward, part of the playing through pain came from guys having to do so to earn a paycheck. 

 

It wasn't like today, where the rookies average salary for 2017 is expected to be around $365,000. In 1970 (after a brief lockout) the average total salary for NFL players was $23,000. Supposedly that equates to $115,000 in today's money, but I question that. They wouldn't have had to work real jobs in the off-season to pay their bills if that were true.

 

I think that was a huge reason for them playing hurt. You didn't even hear of guys taking off a game or even a practice for a strain or muscle pull. They just played through it, albeit not at their normal speed.

 

I am one of those people that DO think the previous generations were WAY tougher... physically, mentally, and emotionally because they didn't have the conveniences that are available today. 

 

Best example I can give for that is I spent 20 years in the USN. The living and working conditions I saw when I started were drastically different than when I retired. We did more with less than the kids starting 20 years later, and the same goes for the squids who started 20 years ahead of me.

 

Good input all around and I definitely don't mind learning or changing my viewpoint. I appreciate being able to talk like adults with those capable of doing so.

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5 hours ago, schotzee said:

 As I said before they played through injuries and pain more frequently than today's athletes.

 

I don't think this is true at all.

 

Players today lie to doctors and coaches in order to stay in the game.  There are lots of guys playing injured every week.

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3 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

 You didn't even hear of guys taking off a game or even a practice for a strain or muscle pull. They just played through it, albeit not at their normal speed.

 

Ever since there has been football there have been players missing games with injuries.

 

I guess the only difference is that in the old days everyone was so slow you could still play when you were hobbled by injury, because there are lots of players gutting it out and playing with pain every week.  Playing in pain is being tough.  Playing when you are injured and can not perform is stupid and hurts the team.

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22 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

I am one of those people that DO think the previous generations were WAY tougher... physically, mentally, and emotionally because they didn't have the conveniences that are available today.

 

That is exactly what I thought.  your opinion of professional football players is flawed because it is not really your opinion about professional football players.  It is a generalized statement about an entire generation that you mistakenly apply to every specific subgroup in that generation.

 

Even if you are correct that the general population is not as "tough" as the previous generation I don't see how you could apply that to a group of men who still go out there and destroy their bodies in a violent physical battle.  In fact in the case of professional football players it was the guys from the old days who had the "convenience" of not having to take shots from men who weigh over 300 lbs on every single play.

 

And running players til the dropped in the mid day sun with no water breaks did not make them tougher.  It just made them physically weaker.

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Fred is OK, Chief. It's the know it alls who think they know it all, miss the entire point of a subject...and believe they have the bully pulpit. But it means literally nothing to me in the overall picture--as this farce of a sport has been dead to me for a decade or more. #thenwhyareyouhere? 

 

Whatever...pearls before swine...great advice. 

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6 hours ago, fredtoast said:

And running players til the dropped in the mid day sun with no water breaks did not make them tougher.  It just made them physically weaker.

 

Or, y'know.. Dead.  I suspect it may have swung too far the other way, with the severely limited contact in TC & all that. Seems like guys get hurt in camp just as much but the first 2-3 regular season games look more like preseason. I would not be surprised at all if early-season injuries are up, if anything. I don't see how 300+ lb dudes are expected to condition themselves to butt heads for an hour by shadowboxing for a couple of weeks beforehand.

 

Beyond that, "toughness" is a hard thing to quantify. By the end of the season I'm sure everyone is playing through some pain. I think it's likely that players with the reputation of being injured aren't always getting hurt more often, but are less able to play through the common injuries -sprains and such - that everyone is suffering from by December. I think it's fair to say, if the old guys weren't necessarily tougher, they were most definitely less coddled. 

 

Crap like 24/7 coverage from SportsCenter etc, million-dollar endorsement deals, & fantasy football have absolutely had an impact on how players act, what they can & can't get away with, & so on. I'd say that's obvious. I find it funny when fans act like the modern NFL is trying to set some kind of moral example and protect players from injury when it's really about liability, but either way the modern NFL player exists in a much different environment than 20+ years ago.

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On 7/21/2017 at 5:57 PM, USN Bengal said:

It's too bad that I'm a mod and can't block/ignore you fredtoast, you are one helluva annoying, egomaniacal, asinine fucking know it all prick.

 

Good day to you asshat.

 

All I did was disagree with you.

 

Is that your definition of an "egomaniacal, asinine, fucking know-it-all prick"?  Anyone who dares to suggest that it is possible you are not 100% correct about something?

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16 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

All I did was disagree with you.

 

Is that your definition of an "egomaniacal, asinine, fucking know-it-all prick"?  Anyone who dares to suggest that it is possible you are not 100% correct about something?

 

Post deleted, my apologies.

 

I should not have posted that.

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