Thoughts or takeaways from last night's game?

[T-Dub]

18 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

Question from Friday night's game...

 

The refs threw a pass against a Tampex Bay offensive lineman in either their second or possibly first possession for being downfield on a passing play.

They then picked up the flag saying he was not downfield illegally but was still engaged with a Bengal.

Who was the Bengal who was beaten and blown off the line so badly?

 

2016 Net Revenue.

 

[|schotzee|]

18 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

Question from Friday night's game...

 

The refs threw a pass against a Tampex Bay offensive lineman in either their second or possibly first possession for being downfield on a passing play.

They then picked up the flag saying he was not downfield illegally but was still engaged with a Bengal.

Who was the Bengal who was beaten and blown off the line so badly?

Lol. Is this a trick question?They threw a pass then picked up a flag? Haha. Jmwy. Unfortunately I don't know the answer.

[|Bunghole|]

20 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

My worry is that he can't beat press coverage more than the fact that he was/is injured. He blows against bump n run, and these NFL DBs are on a different level than what he was up against in college.

 

I'll gladly eat crow if Ross is a superstar but this is the first 1st round pick I've complained about since Keith Rivers. I just don't think he's going to be very good.

I think in addition to teaching shedding and eluding bump coverage technique, the other way to beat it is to move Ross around and not just line him up outside every time. I imagine he'd slay defenders motioning into the slot from time to time.

[fredtoast]

23 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

Stats are good, but when you watch MJ in the pass rush he fails the eye test.  Rarely seems to get pressure.

Actually stats are a good way to show that your eye test fails.  I doubt you have the time to watch every game played by every team.  That is why what you call "Rarely" was actually 15th in the league among DEs in QB hurries..

[fredtoast]

20 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Question from Friday night's game...

 

The refs threw a flag against a Tampex Bay offensive lineman in either their second or possibly first possession for being downfield on a passing play.

They then picked up the flag saying he was not downfield illegally but was still engaged with a Bengal.

Who was the Bengal who was beaten and blown off the line so badly?

I do not remember the play, but it is not always a player getting beaten that badly.  Sometimes it is a D-lineman or LB who was engaged at the LOS but is trying to drop into shallow coverage.

[|SF2|]

8 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Actually stats are a good way to show that your eye test fails.  I doubt you have the time to watch every game played by every team.  That is why what you call "Rarely" was actually 14th in the league among DEs.

I have to side with Fred.  The biggest recent weakness on our defense has been starting one or 2 bottom feeders.  A team full of decent starters can be a great overall team.  In the NFL, you can't afford to have bad defebsive starters particularly at corner and defensive end.  MJ is a good player almost every team would be happy to have.

 

Even the best defenses in history were made up of 7 to 8 good players and 2 or 3 Super Stars with NO weak links.

[Jamie_B]

Finally watched this last night, here are some thoughts.

 

AJ and Andy are fine, Eiffert is good (please stay healthy) Lefell is solid but not spectacular, hopefully Ross gets healthy soon as I'm not impressed with the rest of the group (and I was a big Boyd guy, hope he steps up this year to be a good possession WR)

 

Our RB crew is going to be the strength of this team if the Oline can block for them. Jeremy Hill looked like he did his rookie year, and Mixon is everything that was advertised.

 

The Dline and DBs we're unimpressive and a bit concerning that they were able to have the ball moved on them so easy. Our LB crew short of Taz needs to step up as well.

 

I did like Jordan Willis, and thought he was playing hard every snap. Hope he gets more of them.

 

The Oline was not abysmal, but they were not great either. Ced O let a guy walk right past him. But they did have some good run blocking so there is that.

 

All in all much of what you expect for a first preseason game, I'm a bit concerned about the D, hopefully they step it up.

[membengal]

Re: the Ross talk in this thread - he's working 1 on 1s against DBs in passing drills for the first time today in camp. I am guessing he will be ready as soon as they give him full clearance and they are simply being cautious. 

[membengal]

And now Hobs has tweeted that Ross is going all out in 11 on 11 drills, and they are in full pads today, so...that seems like they are about to take the medical leash off...

[membengal]

More Hobs:

 

Geoff Hobson‏ @GeoffHobsonCin  16s16 seconds ago

More

One observer after Ross catches a quick out: can't stop it. He's too fast

[UncleEarl]

5 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Actually stats are a good way to show that your eye test fails.  I doubt you have the time to watch every game played by every team.  That is why what you call "Rarely" was actually 15th in the league among DEs in QB hurries..

BS.  Subjective stats like QB Hurries are not nearly as reliable as objective statistics like sacks, interceptions, etc.  What is a QB hurry and who decides which player gets one?  Are they reviewed on video?  I am not familiar with how football statistics are gathered as much as I am in another sport, hockey.  The generally accepted stats in hockey are not well done.  Shots on goal, as subjective stat, vary significantly from rink to rink.  Unless proven otherwise I would expect subjective football stats to be unreliable as well. 

 

Football is a sport judged by video much more than statistics.  The Bengals drafted two pass rushers in the 2017 draft and traded for another this summer.  I don't think they are all that impressed with those statistics and agree with those that think MJ is weak on the pass rush.

[turningpoint]

On 8/12/2017 at 9:40 PM, omgdrdoom said:

My worry is that he can't beat press coverage more than the fact that he was/is injured. He blows against bump n run, and these NFL DBs are on a different level than what he was up against in college.

 

I'll gladly eat crow if Ross is a superstar but this is the first 1st round pick I've complained about since Keith Rivers. I just don't think he's going to be very good.

You really think they'll bump him with that speed? 1 mistake by the DB and he's gone.

[fredtoast]

51 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

BS.  Subjective stats like QB Hurries are not nearly as reliable as objective statistics like sacks, interceptions, etc.  What is a QB hurry and who decides which player gets one?  Are they reviewed on video?  I am not familiar with how football statistics are gathered as much as I am in another sport, hockey.  The generally accepted stats in hockey are not well done.  Shots on goal, as subjective stat, vary significantly from rink to rink.  Unless proven otherwise I would expect subjective football stats to be unreliable as well.

Even if they are subjective they are better than your "eye test" because at least the view every game by every team.

 

If your "eye test" is so accurate then exactly which DEs on other teams get more pressure than Johnson?

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, turningpoint said:

You really think they'll bump him with that speed? 1 mistake by the DB and he's gone.

 

Some of them will, yeah.  There are DB's who are every bit as fast as Ross, even without pads.  This came up in another thread, but just about every NFL starter is a freak athlete by default.  40 times and bench reps only get you in the door.  We all know Ross can run fast.  Whether he can produce as an NFL player is a much bigger question.  That's no knock on Ross, btw - just the reality of being a draft pick.  Every year fans think their team has drafted some world-beater, next-level kid who is going to turn the league upside down.  Then they take the field and run into everyone else's world-beater, next-level kid.  

 

Point being, let's see him beat out LaFell before y'all go having his babies.

[UncleEarl]

2 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Even if they are subjective they are better than your "eye test" because at least the view every game by every team.

 

If your "eye test" is so accurate then exactly which DEs on other teams get more pressure than Johnson?

Dunno.  I haven't watched all the film, but the Bengals have and they are stocking up on pass rushers.  I think that's a more accurate indicator than my eye test or your subjective statistic.

[fredtoast]

3 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 Every year fans think their team has drafted some world-beater, next-level kid who is going to turn the league upside down.

There are also the fans who bitch and moan no matter who their team selects because their team is stupid and never does anything right.

[fredtoast]

1 hour ago, UncleEarl said:

Dunno.  I haven't watched all the film, but the Bengals have and they are stocking up on pass rushers.  I think that's a more accurate indicator than my eye test or your subjective statistic.

We drafted 2 TEs in 2015.  So why is Eifert still here?

 

You have tpo go back 4 drafts to find the last time we used something higher than a 4th round pick on a DE (Clarke, 3rd, 2014).  That is not exactly "stocking up".

[UncleEarl]

1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

We drafted 2 TEs in 2015.  So why is Eifert still here?

 

You have tpo go back 4 drafts to find the last time we used something higher than a 4th round pick on a DE (Clarke, 3rd, 2014).  That is not exactly "stocking up".

Ummm...you already forgot about this year?  A third a fourth and a trade?  All pass rushers.  Means nothing?  You just stick with that dumb stat. 

 

 

 

 

[|westside bengal|]

as far as DE's go.....Clarke and Gilberry are FA's after this year and Dunlap and M Johnson after 2018.  Have to find replacements sometime.  Dunlap will be pushing 30 and likely looking for a last big contract here or somewhere.

[fredtoast]

50 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

Ummm...you already forgot about this year?  A third a fourth and a trade?  All pass rushers.  Means nothing?  You just stick with that dumb stat. 

 

 

 

 

 So now you are claiming that MJ is a LB?

 

And I guess you thought Dalton was gone when we drafted McCarron, right?

 

 

[|High School Harry|]

                                                                                         

[UncleEarl]

9 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 So now you are claiming that MJ is a LB?

 

And I guess you thought Dalton was gone when we drafted McCarron, right?

 

 

Please.  Lawson is a project at LB.  He was and is an edge rusher. 

 

I would also ask you to take the time to actually read my posts.  I did not say Johnson was gone, but likely going to be a more situational player. 

 

Finally, comparing Michael Johnson, who has never been to a pro bowl, to two pro bowl level players is as lame as the weak ass stat you are quoting.

[Steve4192]

10 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

Ummm...you already forgot about this year?  A third a fourth and a trade?  All pass rushers.  Means nothing?  You just stick with that dumb stat. 

 

 

 

 

There is no doubt that the Bengals are trying to upgrade the pass rush, but that doesn't mean Johnson is a bum.  He's a solid DE who is more of a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none rather than a pass-rushing beast.  Hopefully, the kids will prove their worth and bump him down the depth chart in nickle/dime packages.   But that doesn't mean he won't be able to contribute in the base defensive package. 

 

I look at Johnson as similar to Peko.  He's a guy who can be an asset in a limited role in specific situations, but he's not a guy who you want on the field all the time.  Johnson has had to play a ton of snaps the last couple of years because the young studs they drafted to rotate with him (Clarke, Hunt) were massive busts.  Hopefully the new guys can perform better and carry some of the load.

[LostInDaJungle]

16 minutes ago, Steve4192 said:

There is no doubt that the Bengals are trying to upgrade the pass rush, but that doesn't mean Johnson is a bum.  He's a solid DE who is more of a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none rather than a pass-rushing beast.  Hopefully, the kids will prove their worth and bump him down the depth chart in nickle/dime packages.   But that doesn't mean he won't be able to contribute in the base defensive package. 

 

I look at Johnson as similar to Peko.  He's a guy who can be an asset in a limited role in specific situations, but he's not a guy who you want on the field all the time.  Johnson has had to play a ton of snaps the last couple of years because the young studs they drafted to rotate with him (Clarke, Hunt) were massive busts.  Hopefully the new guys can perform better and carry some of the load.

Multiple media commentators have said that Johnson was flat out awful last Friday. I happen to like Kat Terrel's coverage of the Bengals, and one of her first takeaways from the game was that Johnson had lost a step.

 

Katherine Terrell‏Verified account @Kat_Terrell  22h22 hours ago

More

Observation from re-watching the Bengals first preseason game: Michael Johnson just looks like he's slowed down a lot. Knocked down twice.

 

There's one play where he tries a spin move and just falls down. The LT barely touched him. And knocked down twice in maybe 15 snaps?

It's worth noting that she's also reported that he's looked a lot better in practice this week.

 

 

[|High School Harry|]

Johnson is the New Peko.  Or Maualuga.  Take your choice.