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Inequality and the rise of Authoritarianism


Jamie_B

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1 hour ago, Homer_Rice said:

Ken, if you are not familiar with Paul Street, I'd like to introduce him. He's my kind of writer/activist: tough, confounding, and challenging. Not a huge fan of politics-as-usual, nor a Bernie fan. A lot of the time I find myself disagreeing with him--but I wouldn't miss what he has to say. This piece, released today, suggest why many folks, including myself, refused to vote for Clinton. Should I feel bad about accusations that it is "my fault" that we have Trump now because of the way I cast my vote? No. Quite the contrary. First, it isn't true. Second, the Democrats selected the wrong candidate. Trump should have been defeated but "my team"--the one I've voted for consistently since Jimmy Carter--was so fucked up that they put up a candidate that was even worse than Trump.

 

So, I also voted for Stein. "We came, We saw, He died" was just a bridge too far for me. I don't feel personally responsible in the slightest, though I do feel bad for the populace as a whole.

 

For me it was their outright refusal to offer any mea culpa for what they did in the 90s that have created a number of problems today, whether it was the crime bill that has put so many black youth in places they should never have to deal with and to some extend why BLM exists today, or the bankruptcy bill, or the biggest for me the deregulation of wall st..... 

I mean even Greenspan has said he was wrong

 

Had they suggested they understood where and why they messed up and how that gives them insight on how to fix todays issues I likely would have voted for them.

Instead they attacked anyone who suggested they were part of the problem.

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So, I also voted for Stein. "We came, We saw, He died" was just a bridge too far for me. I don't feel personally responsible in the slightest, though I do feel bad for the populace as a whole.


Damn. Quite the testament to what a shit candidate Clinton was that you would vote for that vacuous, blithering idiot...
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18 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

Had they suggested they understood where and why they messed up and how that gives them insight on how to fix todays issues I likely would have voted for them.

That was/is never going to happen. The DLC crowd is corrupt and has been from the old Atari Democrat days.

15 minutes ago, Elflocko said:

Damn. Quite the testament to what a shit candidate Clinton was that you would vote for that vacuous, blithering idiot...

 

Sad, I know. My preference was to write-in Sanders but in KY write-ins are not counted unless the candidate has filed with the SecState. So, I went with the closest ideological match-up, which admittedly is still pretty far off from many views I hold as important.

 

 

The long game is still in play. I wear my 2020 Hindsight shirt now and then and get good responses from folks. The worm will turn...not sure how many bottles of mescal I'll have to drink before we get there, though.

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9 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

Ken, if you are not familiar with Paul Street, I'd like to introduce him. He's my kind of writer/activist: tough, confounding, and challenging. Not a huge fan of politics-as-usual, nor a Bernie fan. A lot of the time I find myself disagreeing with him--but I wouldn't miss what he has to say. This piece, released today, suggest why many folks, including myself, refused to vote for Clinton. Should I feel bad about accusations that it is "my fault" that we have Trump now because of the way I cast my vote? No. Quite the contrary. First, it isn't true. Second, the Democrats selected the wrong candidate. Trump should have been defeated but "my team"--the one I've voted for consistently since Jimmy Carter--was so fucked up that they put up a candidate that was even worse than Trump.

 

So, I also voted for Stein. "We came, We saw, He died" was just a bridge too far for me. I don't feel personally responsible in the slightest, though I do feel bad for the populace as a whole.

And that, Therein, lies the difference between liberals and conservatives.  You, Jamie and many others, voted from an area of " Personal Consciousness".  An idea that even if the world goes to Hell, you have maintained your moral values.  Conservatives would vote for Satan, if he had an "R" behind his name.  They understand that even with the most ignorant bastard, which I dare say we elected, they will have an opportunity to push the thin line of justice further right from its intended path, and closer to the "theocratic-Fascist" goals that have been instilled in them by the conservative entertainment complex.  These 4 years, could and probably will, affect the country as a whole for Decades. Great!

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11 hours ago, kennethmw said:

And that, Therein, lies the difference between liberals and conservatives.  You, Jamie and many others, voted from an area of " Personal Consciousness".  An idea that even if the world goes to Hell, you have maintained your moral values.  Conservatives would vote for Satan, if he had an "R" behind his name.  They understand that even with the most ignorant bastard, which I dare say we elected, they will have an opportunity to push the thin line of justice further right from its intended path, and closer to the "theocratic-Fascist" goals that have been instilled in them by the conservative entertainment complex.  These 4 years, could and probably will, affect the country as a whole for Decades. Great!

 

You know I think Trump is a total shitbag but I reject this.  Not everyone who voted for the man is a rabid Nazi.  There were plenty of reasons to have strong moral objections to Clinton (or any other candidate I'm sure, if you dig deep enough.)  I think it's fair to say his voters were at least privileged enough to comfortably overlook the xenophobic, white supremacist leanings of his campaign. That's bad, but doesn't make them evil incarnate.  Demonizing them all en masse after the fact certainly isn't going to make them any more receptive to other points of view.  Trump will be gone in a few years, quite possibly sooner, but this either/or system of government & politics that put him in power will remain.  

 

 

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22 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

Sad, I know. My preference was to write-in Sanders but in KY write-ins are not counted unless the candidate has filed with the SecState. So, I went with the closest ideological match-up, which admittedly is still pretty far off from many views I hold as important.

Nevada has the "None of the Above Candidates" option. I couldn't bring myself to choose that option with my state in play, so I plugged my nose and pulled the plunger for the Neo-Liberal. Even without the benefit of retrospect I knew she would be better than the "Raping Cheeto"...

 

Quote

The long game is still in play. I wear my 2020 Hindsight shirt now and then and get good responses from folks. The worm will turn...not sure how many bottles of mescal I'll have to drink before we get there, though.

Is it? I'm of the mind that this was our last chance to reconfigure the Supreme Court to drive a stake through Citizens United, particularly after Turtle Man's treasonous pilfering of Merrick Garland's seat. Now? If RBG punches her ticket any time in the following 3 years, the next 2+ generations are thoroughly boned... 

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8 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

You know I think Trump is a total shitbag but I reject this.  Not everyone who voted for the man is a rabid Nazi.  There were plenty of reasons to have strong moral objections to Clinton (or any other candidate I'm sure, if you dig deep enough.)  I think it's fair to say his voters were at least privileged enough to comfortably overlook the xenophobic, white supremacist leanings of his campaign. That's bad, but doesn't make them evil incarnate.  Demonizing them all en masse after the fact certainly isn't going to make them any more receptive to other points of view.  Trump will be gone in a few years, quite possibly sooner, but this either/or system of government & politics that put him in power will remain.  

 

 

You totally misunderstood my point.  I was not suggesting that all conservatives are Nazi's( although I would imagine that almost every Nazi is conservative), I was and still wholeheartedly feel that they have been indoctrinated by the conservative entertainment complex.  From the moment that Reagan and the trickle down republicans repealed the Fairness Doctrine, they have been trickling down this Neo Patriotism wrapped in the shroud of Turin by the likes of Rushbo and the Fauxites, this idea that the only truths are those that are found within the confines of conservative apparatus.  This has led to a country divided into two groups, those who believe in reality and facts, and those who believe in the "Facts" they are told by the Conservative Entertainment Complex.  That's how a Black Christian Family man became a Muslim, how Hillary and Bill ran a pedophile porno ring out of a pizza shop in DC, and that 3-5 million folks voted illegally in the last election, along with many others too numerous to list.  I have plenty of republican acquaintances that saw the sham that is Drumf, but voted for him anyway because he was running as the republican and that's who they have always voted for.  

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5 hours ago, Elflocko said:

Nevada has the "None of the Above Candidates" option. I couldn't bring myself to choose that option with my state in play, so I plugged my nose and pulled the plunger for the Neo-Liberal. Even without the benefit of retrospect I knew she would be better than the "Raping Cheeto"...

 

Is it? I'm of the mind that this was our last chance to reconfigure the Supreme Court to drive a stake through Citizens United, particularly after Turtle Man's treasonous pilfering of Merrick Garland's seat. Now? If RBG punches her ticket any time in the following 3 years, the next 2+ generations are thoroughly boned... 

Exactly, at least for our lives.  Someday, my Grandkids are going to say, "what the fuck were they thinking!"

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Some might argue that had the Clintons not shifted the Democratic party to the right with their triangulation in the 90s the Republican party would not have had to go so close to Fascism to be in opposition, of a Right leaning Democratic party.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

 

 

 

 

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Some might argue that had the Clintons not shifted the Democratic party to the right with their triangulation in the 90s the Republican party would not have had to go so close to Fascism to be in opposition, of a Right leaning Democratic party.
 
Sent from my SM-G955U using Go-Bengals.com mobile app
 
 
 
 

I've thought this for years...
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On 9/9/2017 at 4:55 PM, kennethmw said:

You totally misunderstood my point.  I was not suggesting that all conservatives are Nazi's( although I would imagine that almost every Nazi is conservative), I was and still wholeheartedly feel that they have been indoctrinated by the conservative entertainment complex.

 

Anyone that still believes Democrat/Republican is an accurate model of the political landscape, as far as that goes.  

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On 9/8/2017 at 7:39 PM, kennethmw said:

And that, Therein, lies the difference between liberals and conservatives.  You, Jamie and many others, voted from an area of " Personal Consciousness".  An idea that even if the world goes to Hell, you have maintained your moral values.  Conservatives would vote for Satan, if he had an "R" behind his name.  They understand that even with the most ignorant bastard, which I dare say we elected, they will have an opportunity to push the thin line of justice further right from its intended path, and closer to the "theocratic-Fascist" goals that have been instilled in them by the conservative entertainment complex.  These 4 years, could and probably will, affect the country as a whole for Decades. Great!

I've heard the "virtue-signaling" argument before. Doesn't apply to me as I have voted for the lesser evil on numerous occasion over the past 40 years. I haven't abandoned the Democratic party despite the fact that it has abandoned me. The task is to change the Dem party because at least one of the major parties ought to represent the general welfare. Clinton and the DLC crowd don't, and in fact, won't. The evidence is in all the lefty-bashing since they've taken over the party in the 1990s. Enough is enough. Somebody wants my vote, they need to be on the right side of the issues I care about.

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On 9/9/2017 at 11:10 AM, Elflocko said:

Is it? I'm of the mind that this was our last chance to reconfigure the Supreme Court to drive a stake through Citizens United, particularly after Turtle Man's treasonous pilfering of Merrick Garland's seat. Now? If RBG punches her ticket any time in the following 3 years, the next 2+ generations are thoroughly boned... 

You have a point. Not only at the SC level but also at lower federal courts. Although Garland is pretty "meh" to me. What we need is a Salmon Chase or a Louis Brandeis; the former took the slavery question from a moral argument to a constitutional one in the antebellum period, the latter is one of the seminal influences on regulation of the early 20th century.

 

I don't think the next 2 generations would be more thoroughly boned than they already are, however. Survey the landscape of the last 40 years, especially the acceleration of our decline post 9-11, and there is plenty to be done outside the court system. Let's start with some decent legislation worth hashing out in the courts.

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17 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

I haven't abandoned the Democratic party despite the fact that it has abandoned me. The task is to change the Dem party because at least one of the major parties ought to represent the general welfare. Clinton and the DLC crowd don't, and in fact, won't. The evidence is in all the lefty-bashing since they've taken over the party in the 1990s.

Just one example of what I mean:

Hillary's Message to Dems: Don't Give Bernie the Keys

 

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First thing to admit is that there is no real difference in democraps or republicants except their lip service to the "promises" they make that the ignorant voters always fall for.

 

Our political system is irreparably broken as far as I'm concerned, and the masses remain ignorant to that by choice.

 

As long as the asshat politicians keep telling the lemmings that they "will fix the system" or "make America great again", it calms the masses because they don't want to think about the alternative... it makes the "uncomfortable ".

 

Fools... mindless fools

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First thing to admit is that there is no real difference in democraps or republicants except their lip service to the "promises" they make that the ignorant voters always fall for.
 
Our political system is irreparably broken as far as I'm concerned, and the masses remain ignorant to that by choice.
 
As long as the asshat politicians keep telling the lemmings that they "will fix the system" or "make America great again", it calms the masses because they don't want to think about the alternative... it makes the "uncomfortable ".
 
Fools... mindless fools


To that point:

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/BL-REB-37736?responsive=y
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On 9/14/2017 at 11:55 PM, USN Bengal said:

First thing to admit is that there is no real difference in democraps or republicants except their lip service to the "promises" they make that the ignorant voters always fall for.

 

So there is no difference between having insurance coverage under the ACA and not having insurance coverage?

 

No difference between same sex couples being denied equal protection under the law or bveing allowed to legally marry?

 

No difference between a regulated Wall Street and an unregulated one?

 

None at all?

 

The only "mindless fools" are the ones who buy this line of bullshit that is put out there to suppress the vote.

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