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How far can Andy Dalton take the Bengals?


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Let's be clear on this. Is Dalton elite? Hell no. Is he bad? No. 

 

However, I want to rip my fingernails off every single time I hear "He can't handle pressure".

 

You know what? Neither can ANY OTHER NFL QB EVER. This is the most mundane argument EVER. OF COURSE your QB is going to suck more if the o-line cannot handle the pass rush. This is true of Brady, Manning (version I and II), Rodgers, Brees and every other QB that's EVER played in the NFL. EVER.

 

But....some QB's deal with pressure better than others. Dalton isn't one of them. He's slain on the hill of Golgotha repeatedly because he's just not good at sidestepping pressure, or anticipating when it comes. We don't have an elite QB and our offensive success going forward is going to depend on our o-line keeping him clean.

 

Whether or not that happens is up to the gods and Marvin.

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26 minutes ago, Bunghole said:

Let's be clear on this. Is Dalton elite? Hell no. Is he bad? No. 

 

However, I want to rip my fingernails off every single time I hear "He can't handle pressure".

 

You know what? Neither can ANY OTHER NFL QB EVER. This is the most mundane argument EVER. OF COURSE your QB is going to suck more if the o-line cannot handle the pass rush. This is true of Brady, Manning (version I and II), Rodgers, Brees and every other QB that's EVER played in the NFL. EVER.

 

But....some QB's deal with pressure better than others. Dalton isn't one of them. He's slain on the hill of Golgotha repeatedly because he's just not good at sidestepping pressure, or anticipating when it comes. We don't have an elite QB and our offensive success going forward is going to depend on our o-line keeping him clean.

 

Whether or not that happens is up to the gods and Marvin.

Some QBs handle pressure  WAY better than others.  Rapistburger for example.  I've been watching Prescott handle it very nicely tonight.  What do the rapist and Prescott have in common?  They don't panic.  Dalton panics. 

 

At this point Andy is who he is.  He's a capable QB, but it looks like a tall task for him to be successful in these circumstances.  Not sure McCarron will be any better.  It's not like he spent a lot of time under pressure at Alabama.  I suppose we will see if McCarron is any better soon.  Dalton will either get injured or throw enough interceptions to force Marvin's hand. 

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54 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

Some QBs handle pressure  WAY better than others.  Rapistburger for example.  I've been watching Prescott handle it very nicely tonight.  What do the rapist and Prescott have in common?  They don't panic.  Dalton panics. 

 

At this point Andy is who he is.  He's a capable QB, but it looks like a tall task for him to be successful in these circumstances.  Not sure McCarron will be any better.  It's not like he spent a lot of time under pressure at Alabama.  I suppose we will see if McCarron is any better soon.  Dalton will either get injured or throw enough interceptions to force Marvin's hand. 

This is a fair point and what I was alluding to WRT a QB's success being largely dependent on a cohesive o-line unit. I agree that Dalton isn't stellar under pressure and my point, again, was that almost ALL NFL QB's are not either. Get Peyton Manning out of his comfort zone, and he generally sucks (for instance). But I also agree that some NFL QB's have a distinct knack for eluding (or even using to their advantage, ie, The Rapist) pressure as well. 

 

Dalton seems to be neither. Tom Brady is one of the best at this, IMO. Staying in the pocket, slide-stepping DL's grabbing for your ankles and making the throw. Dalton runs away, throws it away or throws an INT.

 

 We can't expect to win games this way. 

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On 9/8/2017 at 9:38 AM, SF2 said:

Oh I was  just having fun.  Dalton is a slightly above average QB.  I would put him around 15th but based on how well Winston and Mariota progress he may drop a few spots.  He can win us a playoff game or two if things work out well. 

 

1. Rodgers

2. Brady

3. Brees

4. Ryan

5. Rapist

6. Wilson

7. Luck

8. Newton

9. Stafford

10. Rivers

11. Palmer

12. Prescott

13. Bradford

14. Carr

15. Dalton

16. Winston

17. Mariota

18. Manning

19. Alex Smith

20. Cousins 

 

WTF have you been smoking the last half decade?

He is better than Bradford but not Winston,Mariota,Smith or Cousins.   No way.  Mariota and Winston alone are 10x better.

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A.J. can throw all the long/deep passes to A.J. and Ross. It was demonstrated Sunday, Andy cannot. A.J.’s passes are blocked less than Andy’s passes. The Bengals win with A.J., not Andy. Let A.J. show Marvin how he can stretch the field with his arm. DO NOT LET A.J. LEAVE CINCINNATI! 

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Andy is and always has been a Marvin quarterback.  Mediocre and not able to win the big one.

He has peaked, leveled out and not going to get any better.  The only way for him is down.

When things break right and he has protection from the Offensive Line (forget that this season), he is decent enough.

If A.J. Green and Eifert (when healthy) were not on this team, Andy would be a backup somewhere else.

 

In our first Super Bowl year, Ken Anderson was abominable during the first game vs. Seattle.  Down by 21 points (more than the Ravens scored all day).

Forrest Greg (my all time favorite Bengal coach), sat Kenny and put in Turk Schonert who pulled out a come from behind victory.

Kenny went in the next week and played all the way to the Super Bowl.

 

Marvin does not have the wherewithal  or balls to sit Andy if even for a little while.  He continues to try to pound a square peg into a round hole.

Marv might as well buy a ticket and sit in the stands for all he does on the field.  Even then he would probably not be able to find his seat

again after taking a whiz in the women's rest room by mistake.

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7 hours ago, Catfish Bob said:

 

WTF have you been smoking the last half decade?

He is better than Bradford but not Winston,Mariota,Smith or Cousins.   No way.  Mariota and Winston alone are 10x better.

Hey now, I put in the Mariota and Winston disclaimer at the top.  I see Alex Smith as an Andy clone.  Has to have a ton of protection and plenty of weapons to be effective.  I am not a Cousins believer and neither is Washington based on the 2 franchise tags they have used on him. 

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2 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Andy is and always has been a Marvin quarterback.  Mediocre and not able to win the big one.

He has peaked, leveled out and not going to get any better.  The only way for him is down.

When things break right and he has protection from the Offensive Line (forget that this season), he is decent enough.

If A.J. Green and Eifert (when healthy) were not on this team, Andy would be a backup somewhere else.

 

In our first Super Bowl year, Ken Anderson was abominable during the first game vs. Seattle.  Down by 21 points (more than the Ravens scored all day).

Forrest Greg (my all time favorite Bengal coach), sat Kenny and put in Turk Schonert who pulled out a come from behind victory.

Kenny went in the next week and played all the way to the Super Bowl.

 

Marvin does not have the wherewithal  or balls to sit Andy if even for a little while.  He continues to try to pound a square peg into a round hole.

Marv might as well buy a ticket and sit in the stands for all he does on the field.  Even then he would probably not be able to find his seat

again after taking a whiz in the women's rest room by mistake.

That's hilarious! And all with that "deer in headlights" look in his eyes while he pees, thinking about his lost seat.

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Some QBs handle pressure  WAY better than others.  Rapistburger for example.  I've been watching Prescott handle it very nicely tonight.  What do the rapist and Prescott have in common?  They don't panic.  Dalton panics. 
 
At this point Andy is who he is.  He's a capable QB, but it looks like a tall task for him to be successful in these circumstances.  Not sure McCarron will be any better.  It's not like he spent a lot of time under pressure at Alabama.  I suppose we will see if McCarron is any better soon.  Dalton will either get injured or throw enough interceptions to force Marvin's hand. 




Ha ha ha.....Nothing forces ole Marv's hand.
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22 minutes ago, westside bengal said:

Will we have Prime Time Andy against the Texans on Thursday night?

I think we will see A.J., if Andy’s QB play goes south. How long can Marvin watch Andy throw interceptions and have his passes battered down before making the switch? Not long! Marvin will quickly make the switch to A.J. during Prime Time Thursday Night. He will not allow the talking heads to dump on him this game! Marvin will be PROACTIVE!

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53 minutes ago, Rick said:

I think we will see A.J., if Andy’s QB play goes south. How long can Marvin watch Andy throw interceptions and have his passes battered down before making the switch? Not long! Marvin will quickly make the switch to A.J. during Prime Time Thursday Night. He will not allow the talking heads to dump on him this game! Marvin will be PROACTIVE!

You might be right.  I don't think Marvin would ever do it in a game unless he already had it as part of the game plan PRE game.  I am certain he didn't expect Dalton to totally shit the bed at home on opening night, none of us did.  However, going into this next game he will probably set some type of bar for Andy to remain in the game.  It will probably be a low bar (don't throw 3 ints)  but it will be there none the less.  

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2 hours ago, fluhartz said:

 

 

 


Ha ha ha.....Nothing forces ole Marv's hand.

If the team continues to play like they did yesterday it will force Marvin's hand. 

 

Mike Brown is patient, but if it looks like they are going 4-12 Lewis will be looking for a job at the end of the season and Marvin knows it.  Also, they much think McCarron can play or they would have taken one of the offers. 

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Don't look now, but the click-bait "Andy Dalton is total garbage and *I* always knew it" articles have already started:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2732507-andy-dalton-bengals-continue-regression-with-embarrassing-week-1-dud?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

 

Yeah, it's Bleacher Report, so ignoring it is always the best advice.  With that said this article simply lays out all the facts everyone already knew and uses them to make the final judgement on Andy and the entire Bengals season.  I'm sure we'll see more of this, so whatever.  Even though most of us agree with what was said, it still annoys me that the Bengals are used as a pinata every time the chance arrives.

 

Now for the Marvin question.  I'm no Marvin supporter but let's get a couple of things straight: yes, he will definitely stick with Andy no matter what, and that sucks.  Yes, this abortion-in-the-making of a season lies heavily on his shoulders.  But remember this:  the best Andy and this offense ever did was under Hue Jackson (and it was amazing), and Marvin did everything in his power to keep the guy around.  It was MB that fucked that up, and we can never lose sight of it.  I heavily suspect that the "hiring" of Zamp also has MB's grubby fingerprints all over it, because to me Marvin didn't sound overly enthused about the transition when it happened (not withstanding the evidence that he *didn't* "hire" the guy - twice - in the past).  For all of Marvin's faults I think he knows he needs the coordinators to own their groups or he's fucked.  I actually don't blame him for that.  I do blame him for being stupidly stubborn, even when it doesn't matter anymore.  We already know he wanted to be done after this season, it just didn't go down the way he wanted it to and now his legacy will be one of utter failure.  Too bad, but I blame MB.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Catfish Bob said:

 

 No way.  Mariota and Winston alone are 10x better.

Winston and Mariota might be fine if your team has a lead and you just want them to check down to the safe passes.

 

Passer rating when trailing in '15 and '16...

Mariota 79.9 and 81.7

Winston 77.2 and 86.7

Dalton 92.2 and 93.9

 

Passer rating on attempts thrown 20+ yards past the line of scrimmage in '15 and '16

Mariota 74.7 (27-90, 909 yds, 9 tds, 6 int)

Winston 84.8 (31-108, 1170, 14, 7)

Dalton 108.0 (38-99, 1471, 9, 4)

 

 

Anyone who think s Winston and Mariota are better QBs than Dalton just don't watch enough NFL football to have an educated opinion.  And anyone who claims they are "10 times better" is either mentally challenged or a troll.

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2 hours ago, HavePityPlease said:

Don't look now, but the click-bait "Andy Dalton is total garbage and *I* always knew it" articles have already started:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2732507-andy-dalton-bengals-continue-regression-with-embarrassing-week-1-dud?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

 

Yeah, it's Bleacher Report, so ignoring it is always the best advice.  With that said this article simply lays out all the facts everyone already knew and uses them to make the final judgement on Andy and the entire Bengals season.  I'm sure we'll see more of this, so whatever.  Even though most of us agree with what was said, it still annoys me that the Bengals are used as a pinata every time the chance arrives.

 

Now for the Marvin question.  I'm no Marvin supporter but let's get a couple of things straight: yes, he will definitely stick with Andy no matter what, and that sucks.  Yes, this abortion-in-the-making of a season lies heavily on his shoulders.  But remember this:  the best Andy and this offense ever did was under Hue Jackson (and it was amazing), and Marvin did everything in his power to keep the guy around.  It was MB that fucked that up, and we can never lose sight of it.  I heavily suspect that the "hiring" of Zamp also has MB's grubby fingerprints all over it, because to me Marvin didn't sound overly enthused about the transition when it happened (not withstanding the evidence that he *didn't* "hire" the guy - twice - in the past).  For all of Marvin's faults I think he knows he needs the coordinators to own their groups or he's fucked.  I actually don't blame him for that.  I do blame him for being stupidly stubborn, even when it doesn't matter anymore.  We already know he wanted to be done after this season, it just didn't go down the way he wanted it to and now his legacy will be one of utter failure.  Too bad, but I blame MB.

 

 

Fine analysis, but you left out the part about having two tackles that are not NFL ready.  This is as big a problem as any with the Bengals.  Is that on Marvin or MB?  Probably MB for listening to his personnel guys and being too cheap to pay Whitworth.  Oh, and didn't the Rams win yesterday?

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Just watched the highlights from yesterday....God, what a horrendous performance by Dalton. I understand there was more to the game than the highlights, but damn, none of those passes had shit to do with the line. Maybe he was gun shy due to pressures that weren't shown, but just putrid. Amazing that it was only his second worst performance of his career

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1 hour ago, UncleEarl said:

Fine analysis, but you left out the part about having two tackles that are not NFL ready.  This is as big a problem as any with the Bengals.  Is that on Marvin or MB?  Probably MB for listening to his personnel guys and being too cheap to pay Whitworth.  Oh, and didn't the Rams win yesterday?

FWIW I totally I agree with your statement.  We know MB has "trusted" Alexander for waaay too long, and I'm in the camp that believes Alexander has simply fallen ass-backwards into quality lineman over the years.  The only "reach" guy or "left field" guy that I can recall panning out was Levi Jones, but for every Levi we have a Stacy Andrews, or a Ghuiciac, or a Bodine, or an Ogbuehi.  He was damned lucky to get a generational talent like Willie, or a guy that "clicked" like Braham, or a guy nobody thought more of than a solid guard who turned out to be a stud LT in Whit.  Meanwhile they jettison a Steinbach, a Mathis, a Whit, a Zeitler; they nickel-and-dimed Levi before he got hurt, and just like Whit they let Willie go in his waning years when he might actually help the transition to younger players.  All of that stinks of MB thinking OL is where you "save", and Alexander enabling it by continuing to polish turds.

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10 hours ago, SF2 said:

Hey now, I put in the Mariota and Winston disclaimer at the top.  I see Alex Smith as an Andy clone.  Has to have a ton of protection and plenty of weapons to be effective.  I am not a Cousins believer and neither is Washington based on the 2 franchise tags they have used on him. 

Lol.  The disclaimer says depending upon how well they progress...Hate to break it to ya but both of those guys have progressed past Dalton. Cousins is a gamer...I'll take his fire and want too attitude over Dalton.

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5 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Winston and Mariota might be fine if your team has a lead and you just want them to check down to the safe passes.

 

Passer rating when trailing in '15 and '16...

Mariota 79.9 and 81.7

Winston 77.2 and 86.7

Dalton 92.2 and 93.9

 

Passer rating on attempts thrown 20+ yards past the line of scrimmage in '15 and '16

Mariota 74.7 (27-90, 909 yds, 9 tds, 6 int)

Winston 84.8 (31-108, 1170, 14, 7)

Dalton 108.0 (38-99, 1471, 9, 4)

 

 

Anyone who think s Winston and Mariota are better QBs than Dalton just don't watch enough NFL football to have an educated opinion.  And anyone who claims they are "10 times better" is either mentally challenged or a troll.

Your putting up garbage time stats. GREAT that Dalton has a good QBR when their trailing. Too bad he never brings them back for a win. Too bad he chokes every fucking single time he gets a chance... If ur still defending Dalton after all these years of watching him shit his pants. Then you sir. You are the troll that knows little about football.  Your a homer. Dalton is one of the bottom 5 in the league. Take your stats elsewhere. 

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14 minutes ago, Catfish Bob said:

Your putting up garbage time stats. GREAT that Dalton has a good QBR when their trailing. Too bad he never brings them back for a win. Too bad he chokes every fucking single time he gets a chance... If ur still defending Dalton after all these years of watching him shit his pants. Then you sir. You are the troll that knows little about football.  Your a homer. Dalton is one of the bottom 5 in the league. Take your stats elsewhere. 

You can't call someone a Homer and troll then claim Dalton is bottom 5 in the league.  That is patently absurd. Mid teens, nothing more or less.

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4 hours ago, SF2 said:

You can't call someone a Homer and troll then claim Dalton is bottom 5 in the league.  That is patently absurd. Mid teens, nothing more or less.

Mid teens would be 15th. Please name 17 other teams that he would start for. I can think of maybe a few.

Let's see

Jets

49ers

Houston until their ready to see Watson play.

Colts while Luck is out. But to the bench as soon as luck is ready.

Ummmmmmmmm

 

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