How far can Andy Dalton take the Bengals?

[|Bunghole|]

6 minutes ago, whodey? said:

It does seem like Dalton had more freedom with Jackson here and the offense was a lot faster. I believe it helped a lot. 

True, but I also remember a lot of supposedly tricky, screwy formations and motions with the o-line that fooled exactly nobody too. There's a balance in there somewhere, hopefully we focus in on that balance with a Lazor.

[|Bunghole|]

When Hue was pulling that shit, I recall constantly yelling at the TV for them to just fucking line up and run the play. Fuck the opposing defense, impose your will! Even if they suspect or outright know what the playcall is, if everything is executed properly they can't stop it. Then you challenge the opposing defense by running it again...and again...until they DO stop it. That sounds like a Madden philosophy but it works in the NFL, especially in the run game.

[whodey?]

2 minutes ago, Bunghole said:

When Hue was pulling that shit, I recall constantly yelling at the TV for them to just fucking line up and run the play. Fuck the opposing defense, impose your will! Even if they suspect or outright know what the playcall is, if everything is executed properly they can't stop it. Then you challenge the opposing defense by running it again...and again...until they DO stop it. That sounds like a Madden philosophy but it works in the NFL, especially in the run game.

Well I do remember Hue getting a little too cute with the trick shit. A little off topic but was it 2009 when they went with the jumbo line formations and was ramming the ball up the asses of every opponent?  Man. Now that football. They know it's coming and can't do shit about it. 😂

[LostInDaJungle]

May I just point out that Dalton had a mugh higher pitched voice. LOL Sports Science.

[|SF2|]

4 hours ago, Bunghole said:

True, but I also remember a lot of supposedly tricky, screwy formations and motions with the o-line that fooled exactly nobody too. There's a balance in there somewhere, hopefully we focus in on that balance with a Lazor.

Come on Go, bring back negative rep points for horribly BAD puns. 

[fresno bengal]

5 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

Matthew Stafford has thrown 88 INT since 2011. Also, Andy has thrown 85, not 32 since 2011.

 

But, nice try? I'm not even sure what to say about that 

 

Oh, and has THROWN. Thrown, not threw. Thrown.

I meant to add in prime time but forgot. Anyhow he's been the worst since he's been in the league.

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, whodey? said:

Well I do remember Hue getting a little too cute with the trick shit. A little off topic but was it 2009 when they went with the jumbo line formations and was ramming the ball up the asses of every opponent?  Man. Now that football. They know it's coming and can't do shit about it. 😂

 

It drove me nuts when he pulled that BS but in hindsight maybe that was the only way to take pressure off our severely overrated OL.   I do suspect at times he was too concerned with making a name for himself, though. 

[|Bunghole|]

2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

It drove me nuts when he pulled that BS but in hindsight maybe that was the only way to take pressure off our severely overrated OL.   I do suspect at times he was too concerned with making a name for himself, though. 

Perhaps, and me too. But did it really take pressure off the oline having them temoporarily line up out there?

[fredtoast]

5 hours ago, Bunghole said:

 by the time we're 2-8 it's a little late for saving the season and then all you're doing by benching Dalton is showcasing McCarron for other teams because I guarantee you he will walk.

 

Recall that Andy has a team friendly contract...we could cut him after this season if McCarron does well and not suffer too badly in dead money, cap room, etc. 

This does not make much sense.  If we cut Dalton then why would you guarantee McCarron would leave for another team?

[fredtoast]

5 hours ago, whodey? said:

 A little off topic but was it 2009 when they went with the jumbo line formations and was ramming the ball up the asses of every opponent?  Man. Now that football. They know it's coming and can't do shit about it. 😂

That only worked for the first 8 games of that season.  As soon as Chris Henry went down our passing game collapsed and the entire offense folded.

[fredtoast]

9 hours ago, fresno bengal said:

Dalton has threw more interceptions than any QB since 2011, 32 to be exact. But thats not important to Dalton humpers.

Interceptions since 2011

 

Eli Manning.....104

Rivers..............99

Fitzpatrick........91

Brees...............88

Stafford............88

Flacco...............85

Dalton...............85

 

[fresno bengal]

9 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Interceptions since 2011

 

Eli Manning.....104

Rivers..............99

Fitzpatrick........91

Brees...............88

Stafford............88

Flacco...............85

Dalton...............85

 

 

4 hours ago, fresno bengal said:

I meant to add in prime time but forgot. Anyhow he's been the worst since he's been in the league.

 

[fredtoast]

4 hours ago, fresno bengal said:

I meant to add in prime time but forgot. Anyhow he's been the worst since he's been in the league.

Dalton has thrown 14 ints in 15 prime time games since 2011.  That is not even close to Eli Mannings 31 over the same period of time.

 

But thanks for showing how totally clueless the Dalton haters are.  Keep up the good work.....Bra.

 

[fredtoast]

On 9/19/2017 at 3:00 PM, SF2 said:

 

Sorry, Dalton' s utter vomit job against San Diego in his 54th career start is the only thing I remember about The Red Rifle. 

Thanks for admitting what I have been saying all along.  The haters will only talk about the bad games and try to act like the good games never happened.

 

Just like your selective memory erased the fact that McCarron lost the broncos game with a fumble in overtime.  It is pretty easy to argue a position when you cherry pick what you want to remember and erase anything that proves you wrong.

 

Unlike you I can remember ALL of Dalton's games.  I can acknowledge that he has had some stinkers, but I also remember the good ones.

[A Rock]

8 hours ago, thezerawkid said:

Sure...

 

Like, his shitty stats this year, in and of themselves, don't explain just how putrid and insufficient his protection has been. It's so easy to look at line item stats like QBR, rating, completion percentage, turnovers and just blame the individual. But, it's largely bullshit.

 

It may well be that Andy has begun a downhill slide, it really could be happening. But, it's not fair to judge it after this season's body of work...nor last season's. He's working behind some garbage and with an inept, incapable coordinator to boot.

Remember when Jackson was here? Remember how much autonomy Dalton had? How much leeway he had to hurry the offense up and check down at the line? I'd love to see someone dig up stats on how much audibling he did under Zamp versus previous seasons.

What I'd like to see is an intelligent interception. I don't think the team is coached for it. Andy being flushed from the pocket to his right on 3rd and 10 near midfield (an all to familiar sight), but instead of launching it out of bounds, taking a shot downfield. I know, I know, nobody's open, but that's where coaching comes in. A deep interception is essentially a punt in that circumstance and receivers need to be cognizant of that as well, because it's essentially a punt with the upside of potential big yardage gain or even points. If it's late in a game your trailing it's almost essential to be aware of intangibles. What's driving me crazy is seeing the Bengals punt from midfield late down by more than one score. That literally makes no sense. So stats might tell us how many picks have been thrown, but like your point to Andy running for his life, they never tell us why.

 

[|Bunghole|]

7 hours ago, fredtoast said:

This does not make much sense.  If we cut Dalton then why would you guarantee McCarron would leave for another team?

Because if we cut Dalton the starting job is McCarron's??????

[fredtoast]

36 minutes ago, Bunghole said:

Because if we cut Dalton the starting job is McCarron's??????

If we cut Dalton because McCarron out played him then I think the job would be AJ's.  Doesn't that make sense?  If McCarron played well enough to nearn a starting job he would be more valuable to us than to other teams.

[Marlon23]

12 hours ago, SF2 said:

Come on Go, bring back negative rep points for horribly BAD puns. 

lol that was pretty good.  

[|SF2|]

9 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Thanks for admitting what I have been saying all along.  The haters will only talk about the bad games and try to act like the good games never happened.

 

Just like your selective memory erased the fact that McCarron lost the broncos game with a fumble in overtime.  It is pretty easy to argue a position when you cherry pick what you want to remember and erase anything that proves you wrong.

 

Unlike you I can remember ALL of Dalton's games.  I can acknowledge that he has had some stinkers, but I also remember the good ones.

There is a huge difference between regular season games and PLAYOFF games.  I do remember McCarron's 4th and 1 PASS to Marvin Jones with 2:35 left to keep the dream alive.  Then the  25 yard TD pass to AJ Green with 1:56 left in the 4th quarter of a PLAYOFF game to TAKE THE LEAD.  I can remember the utter fear of finally being in a position to win a playoff game and the excitement as Pittsburgh trotted out their backup QB.   Then the absolute celebration as Burfict picks off Landry Jones to ice the game.  I can still remember screaming for joy and high fiving my buds in his basement.  I was holding a Miller Lite.  

 

Unfortunately, Marvin Lewis is our coach and his complete lack of understanding when it come to clock management, field position and situational awareness lost us a WON game.  The running back on a well coached team would never be running thru traffic with only one hand on the ball in THAT situation but Hill was.  

 

Yeah, McCarron, for the first time in 25 years gave me hope in a PLAYOFF game, something Dalton NEVER has.  And yes, the San Diego game scarred me for life but McCarron and company almost ALMOST removed that debacle from my memory.   Marvin should have been fired after the San Diego game.  Allowing Marvin to stay after HIS TEAM utterly shit the bed with the Pittspuke game won is simply not explainable. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_225zwqSc8

 

[fredtoast]

6 minutes ago, SF2 said:

There is a huge difference between regular season games and PLAYOFF games.  I do remember McCarron's 4th and 1 PASS to Marvin Jones with 2:35 left to keep the dream alive.  Then the  25 yard TD pass to AJ Green with 1:56 left in the 4th quarter of a PLAYOFF game to TAKE THE LEAD.  I can remember the utter fear of finally being in a position to win a playoff game and the excitement as Pittsburgh trotted out their backup QB.   Then the absolute celebration as Burfict picks off Landry Jones to ice the game.  I can still remember screaming for joy and high fiving my buds in his basement.  I was holding a Miller Lite. 

 

Yeah, McCarron, for the first time in 25 years gave me hope in a PLAYOFF game, something Dalton NEVER has.  And yes, the San Diego game scarred me for life but McCarron and company almost ALMOST removed that debacle from my memory.   Marvin should have been fired after the San Diego game.  Allowing Marvin to stay after HIS TEAM utterly shit the bed with the game won is simply not explainable. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_225zwqSc8

 

 

Again, thanks for proving that you only remember what you want to.  I can find examples of very shitty QBs making one good pass in a game.  But I am not stupid enough to believe that one pass makes those shitty QBs good QBs.

 

Tim Tebow won a playoff game, yet no NFL coach (not even Belichick) was stupid enough to anoint him as a starter based on one play.  I fully understand why you loved that moment, but it is silly to judge a player on one play in one game.

[fredtoast]

8 hours ago, A Rock said:

 A deep interception is essentially a punt

 

A punt with no coverage team to attempt a tackle.

 

Not such a great idea.

[|SF2|]

24 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

 

Again, thanks for proving that you only remember what you want to.  I can find examples of very shitty QBs making one good pass in a game.  But I am not stupid enough to believe that one pass makes those shitty QBs good QBs.

 

Tim Tebow won a playoff game, yet no NFL coach (not even Belichick) was stupid enough to anoint him as a starter based on one play.  I fully understand why you loved that moment, but it is silly to judge a player on one play in one game.

I am sorry, you continue to completely misconstrue what I posted which you have a nasty habit of doing.   Dalton has done nothing in 4 playoff games.  We are not talking about 1 pass we are talking about the second half of 4 playoff games.  6 total points in the second half.

 

He is the master of playing like total shit in almost every prime time game he plays.   You know, like 7 days ago on Thursday night AT HOME when he managed to convert 4 of 15 3rd downs and the team followed up a shutout at home with another ZERO TD performance and loss?  He hasn't played well consistently for over a year.  Did you watch the team play last year?  How many good games did he play last year?  The only good team we beat last year was the Dolphins and they were not that good.  

 

Dalton is a our best option right now but he isn't that good.  Hasn't been good since he broke his thumb in 2015. .  

[LostInDaJungle]

AJ McCarron is suddenly clutch because he won big college games...

How many QB's have won big college games and then gone on the be NFL disasters.

Andy can only succeed with great players around him...

How good was McCarron's 'Bama squad top to bottom?

McCarron is obviously more talented than Dalton...

Which is why Dalton was a 2nd round pick and McCarron was a 5th rounder?

Zampese wasn't the problem, Dalton just sucks...

How many TD's did McCarron throw in the preseason? How many INT's? Did two QB's run the same game plan and get drastically different results?

 

 

To quote Archie Manning, "The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy on a losing team."

[fredtoast]

4 minutes ago, SF2 said:

I am sorry, you continue to completely misconstrue what I posted which you have a nasty habit of doing. 

I am not misconstruing anything.  McCarron had a 68 passer rating took 3 sacks and fumbled 3 times in that playoff game.  The Bengals never scored a td without getting the ball in Stealer territory, and on one of those drives 42 of the 46 yards were gained on penalties.  You are basically getting a raging hard on over one pass.

[|SF2|]

18 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

I am not misconstruing anything.  McCarron had a 68 passer rating took 3 sacks and fumbled 3 times in that playoff game.  The Bengals never scored a td without getting the ball in Stealer territory, and on one of those drives 42 of the 46 yards were gained on penalties.  You are basically getting a raging hard on over one pass.

Yeah, that is one pass Andy Dalton would not have completed.  A really important one late in the 4th quarter of a playoff game.  Fact is McCarron had seconds ago completed a very important pass to Jones on 4th and 1 to keep the drive alive.  Andy would have already thrown the game away by then most likely.  

 

I don't think McCarron is the answer.  I have said it a million times so your raging hard on comment is nonsense.   I don't think Dalton is very good anymore.  Hasn't played well consistently since he broke his thumb in 2015.  Played like Jon Kitna last year.  What is the excuse for him last year?  He doesn't do anything special to win games, just runs the plays and hopes they work.  Goes thru a progression or two and then panics.   Have you watched any of the first two games??   If the game plan isn't working from the start, its pretty much game over. 

 

He is basically a white Tyrod Taylor, nothing more.   You sound like a Buckeye fan trying to convince me JT Barrrett is great.  Not buying it.