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How far can Andy Dalton take the Bengals?


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Dalton lacks the competitive intensity it takes to be a big time QB in the NFL. He's too nice and meek to be QB that will lead a team of Mike Brown's redemption projects to the finish line. He would better suited as a backup QB. He's Jon Kitna clone, good enough to win 9-10 a year if everything goes well, but he's not winning a Super Bowl.

 

Dalton is too Beta and to win it all you need to be a beta. Boomer was an alpha, same for Carson. Dalton's personality is more reserved and laid back, he would be a great 3rd grade teacher.... but not some guy you want to lead a group of men into battle.

 

When things go wrong his confidence gets shaky and he can't rebound, he let's his mistakes get in his head and he makes it a bad situation worse. It's year 7 and just starting to become the vocal leader of the team.....that says it all. 

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Winston and Mariota have more natural talent in their big toe than Dalton. Both guys have better arms, are bigger/faster/stronger, and don't come up extremely short in big games consistently through out their careers.

 

No one outside of blind Homer Bengals fans think he's better than those guys. Most unbiased analyst say Dalton is a 3rf tier QB at best.

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6 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

Winston and Mariota have more natural talent in their big toe than Dalton. Both guys have better arms, are bigger/faster/stronger, and don't come up extremely short in big games consistently through out their careers.

 

No one outside of blind Homer Bengals fans think he's better than those guys. Most unbiased analyst say Dalton is a 3rf tier QB at best.

I am the farthest thing from a Dalton apologist you will find but proclaiming Winston and Mariota don't come up short in big games is odd since neither has been to the playoffs.   Gotta win enough big games to make it there and neither has done so yet. .  Dalton did it in his first year with a team many predicted to only win 3 games.  The big difference for Andy?  Andrew Whitworth, Nate Livings, Kyle Cook, Bobbie Williams, Andre Smith.    I don't think anyone on our current O line could start on that 2011 team. 

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3 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

Winston and Mariota have more natural talent in their big toe than Dalton. Both guys have better arms, are bigger/faster/stronger, and don't come up extremely short in big games consistently through out their careers.

 

Who cares about "natural talent" when they don't produce on the filed?   

 

Bet you think Trent Richardson is one of the best RBs in the NFL, right?

 

 

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4 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

Dalton lacks the competitive intensity it takes to be a big time QB in the NFL. He's too nice and meek to be QB that will lead a team of Mike Brown's redemption projects to the finish line.

 

Dalton's personality is more reserved and laid back, he would be a great 3rd grade teacher.... but not some guy you want to lead a group of men into battle.

 

You don't have to be a squealing ass hole to lead a team to victory.  Roger Staubach was a nice guy and he got a couple of rings.

 

 

When things go wrong his confidence gets shaky and he can't rebound, he let's his mistakes get in his head and he makes it a bad situation worse.

 

Not true

 

Since 2011 the Bengals are 9th in the league in come from behind victories (31). but that does not tell the entire story. The Bengals also have the 7th best winning percentage in games in which they trailed at some point (.464). Only five teams in the league have both more come-from behind victories and a better winning percentage in games where they trailed. For example the Dolphins have one more come from behind victory, but 15 more losses in games where they trailed for only a .386 winning percentage.

Dalton has been very clutch when it comes to fourth quarter comebacks. (Profootballreference.com defines a "4th quarter comeback" as a fourth quarter scoring drive when the team is trailing by one score in a game that ends in a win or tie). He has finished in the top 5 in fourth quarter comebacks three times (fourth in '11, fourth in '14, and second in '15). Since he entered the league in '11 Dalton has a total of 14 fourth quarter comebacks. That ranks 8th in the league.

Dalton has also been very good at "game winning drives" (a scoring drive in the fourth quarter or overtime that puts the winning team ahead to stay) he has finished in the top 8 four times (fifth in '11, sixth in '12, sixth in '14, and eighth in '15). Since '11 Dalton also ranks 8th in game winning drives with 17.

 

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4 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

Winston and Mariota have more natural talent in their big toe than Dalton. Both guys and don't come up extremely short in big games consistently through out their careers.

 

What "big games" have Mariota and Winston played?

 

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2 hours ago, fredtoast said:

What "big games" have Mariota and Winston played?

 

In college  Winston played in and won to the National Championship.

 

3 hours ago, fredtoast said:

You don't have to be a squealing ass hole to lead a team to victory.  Roger Staubach was a nice guy and he got a couple of rings.

 

Not true

 

Since 2011 the Bengals are 9th in the league in come from behind victories (31). but that does not tell the entire story. The Bengals also have the 7th best winning percentage in games in which they trailed at some point (.464). Only five teams in the league have both more come-from behind victories and a better winning percentage in games where they trailed. For example the Dolphins have one more come from behind victory, but 15 more losses in games where they trailed for only a .386 winning percentage.

Dalton has been very clutch when it comes to fourth quarter comebacks. (Profootballreference.com defines a "4th quarter comeback" as a fourth quarter scoring drive when the team is trailing by one score in a game that ends in a win or tie). He has finished in the top 5 in fourth quarter comebacks three times (fourth in '11, fourth in '14, and second in '15). Since he entered the league in '11 Dalton has a total of 14 fourth quarter comebacks. That ranks 8th in the league.

Dalton has also been very good at "game winning drives" (a scoring drive in the fourth quarter or overtime that puts the winning team ahead to stay) he has finished in the top 8 four times (fifth in '11, sixth in '12, sixth in '14, and eighth in '15). Since '11 Dalton also ranks 8th in game winning drives with 17.

 

Please don't compare Dalton to Staubach. Roger was a leader of men while Dalton doesn't really command much respect. Since Dalton has been the starting QB he has never been the locker room leader. Whitworth, Peko, and even Pacman were considered leaders before the QB....that's a problem.

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From CNN's front page (links to bleacher report article about Dalton) "$96 million QB One Of Worst In NFL"

 

Here's the link to the article. Can't say I disagree with much of it.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2732507-andy-dalton-bengals-continue-regression-with-embarrassing-week-1-dud?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

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Lolz at anyone still defending Dalton at this point of his career....to open up the 7th season of his career, the prime years career he commits 5 turnovers and fails to score a single point in the first home opener in years. 

 

He's a 3rd tier QB at best, the only people who refuse to accept this reality are delusional Bengals fans and the inept Bengals organization that hasn't won a playoff game in over a quarter century and continues to employ a stale HC that should have been fired after the meltdown of the 2015 playoffs. A HC that will be remembered for his 0-7 playoff record more than anything else.

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Just now, PatternMaster said:

Lolz at anyone still defending Dalton at this point of his career....to open up the 7th season of his career, the prime years career he commits 5 turnovers and fails to score a single point in the first home opener in years. 

 

He's a 3rd tier QB at best, the only people who refuse to accept this reality are delusional Bengals fans and the inept Bengals organization that hasn't won a playoff game in over a quarter century and continues to employ a stale HC that should have been fired after the meltdown of the 2015 playoffs. A HC that will be remembered for his 0-7 playoff record more than anything else.

He should have been fired after the San Diego playoff game.

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Fuck his complacent ass. He can go fishing on a boat none of us could afford for the rest of his life.

 

What I am wondering is what happened to THIS Marvin. Did he die or just become comfortable? Does he still coach like this and we just don't see it? I cannot imagine that he does because something like this on a daily basis should produce results. 

 

 

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Please don't compare Dalton to Staubach. Roger was a leader of men while Dalton doesn't really command much respect. Since Dalton has been the starting QB he has never been the locker room leader. Whitworth, Peko, and even Pacman were considered leaders before the QB....that's a problem.


Dalton sucks but comparing Winston it college. Krenzel won a championship for osu. Guess he should be our qb. Or tebow or Charlie ward. Leaf and art s from osu had better arms. Hell cutler has a better arm. Jeff George is still available.

Bottom line is dalton wins. He sucked as bad as akili on Sunday but on Thursday he could throw for 300 and be the savior. He's decent at qb. He's not Brady or manning. He's also better than every qb in the Afc west not named Carr and every qb in the east not named Brady. He's healthier than luck and better than savage and bottles. Compared to AFC qbs he's pretty damn good
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26 minutes ago, Bunghole said:

Fuck his complacent ass. He can go fishing on a boat none of us could afford for the rest of his life.

 

What I am wondering is what happened to THIS Marvin. Did he die or just become comfortable? Does he still coach like this and we just don't see it? I cannot imagine that he does because something like this on a daily basis should produce results. 

 

 

I wonder this exact thing every year since. 

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9 hours ago, Bunghole said:

Fuck his complacent ass. He can go fishing on a boat none of us could afford for the rest of his life.

 

What I am wondering is what happened to THIS Marvin. Did he die or just become comfortable? Does he still coach like this and we just don't see it? I cannot imagine that he does because something like this on a daily basis should produce results. 

 

 

Yea, that was awesome! What year was that?

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10 hours ago, ccartman2 said:

 


Dalton sucks but comparing Winston it college. Krenzel won a championship for osu. Guess he should be our qb. Or tebow or Charlie ward. Leaf and art s from osu had better arms. Hell cutler has a better arm. Jeff George is still available.

Bottom line is dalton wins. He sucked as bad as akili on Sunday but on Thursday he could throw for 300 and be the savior. He's decent at qb. He's not Brady or manning. He's also better than every qb in the Afc west not named Carr and every qb in the east not named Brady. He's healthier than luck and better than savage and bottles. Compared to AFC qbs he's pretty damn good

 

Winston and Mariota have higher floors and ceilings than Dalton, any reasonable and knowledge observer of the NFL can see that. They are more physically talented and don't have a habit of playing horrible in big games. 

 

As for the AFC West QB's are concerned he's not better than Rivers or Smith and at this point I would rather have Siemian than Dalton. 

 

Dalton isn't that well respected around the league because he has a low floor and ceiling. When he's bad he's giving you 5 turnovers and no points, when he's good you are lucky to get 24 points a game. He shrinks in big spots and can't win a playoff game despite numerous attempts. 

 

I'm sure some other franchise would love to have him, well I say they can take him and be mediocre at best for next few years. 

 

The NFL is a what have you done for me lately type of business and Dalton just posted a 0.6 QBR, he couldn't even get a whole fucking number. Sure in 2015 he shoulda, coulda, woulda.... but he didn't. I know he's our QB for the remainder of the season or until Ced gets him hurt because of his superior athleticism and MMA skills, but I feel like this organization needs a reboot from the top down. 

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10 hours ago, Bunghole said:

Fuck his complacent ass. He can go fishing on a boat none of us could afford for the rest of his life.

 

What I am wondering is what happened to THIS Marvin. Did he die or just become comfortable? Does he still coach like this and we just don't see it? I cannot imagine that he does because something like this on a daily basis should produce results. 

 

 

I think the core group of players that have been there for 5 plus years are tried of Marvin's schtick.

 

15 years with no results and not holding guys responsible doesn't bode well for any HC. 

 

Marvin is like that hypocritical parent that gets shit faced drunk ever weekend but tells their teenager to not drink or use drugs. He's lost his credibility by not requiring competition for all spots on the roster and for giving umpteen chances and making extremely lame excuses for morons like Pacman.

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^ I feel like you're being way too hard on Andy.

 

I'm not saying he's an amazing or great QB, but he's more than OK for an NFL starter. I'm sure we'd all love to draft the next Tom Brady but it's easier said than done.

 

He has proven that if you put some good players and a good scheme in place that he can succeed ala 2015. Our issue right now is coaching and lack of OL talent. Our owner, HC, OC, and some position coaches aren't doing their jobs, and that's hurting us the most at the moment.

 

Russell Wilson had a game last year where he threw for 150 yards, a 38.8 rating, 2 INTs, and the team scored 5 points.

Aaron Rodgers had 4 games with a passer rating under 70 back in 2015.

Rapistberger barely completed half of his passes against Buffalo last year, threw 3 INTs, and they still won that game.

 

I could do this with basically every QB that's ever existed, every QB is going to have some bad games and Andy is no exception. Now, these aren't excuses for Andy's poor performance last week because it was definitely unacceptable, but I feel like people don't realize that all good QBs play like shit sometimes.

 

Andy had a passer rating of over 100 in 16 of the 29 games played between 2015 - 2016 (95+ rating in 2 others) and threw 43 TDs to 15 INTs over that same time period. He's been a good QB for us lately, he hasn't been the problem. Andy wasn't the reason we missed the playoffs last year and Andy wasn't the reason we lost in the 2015-2016 playoffs. He was a big reason we lost last Sunday but he's going to rebound with better games, I can't say the same for Ced, the rest of the o-line, and our coaches.

 

Dalton sucked last week but he isn't the reason we're going to suck going forward and I think there's a lot of evidence that supports that opinion.

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

I think the core group of players that have been there for 5 plus years are tried of Marvin's schtick.

 

15 years with no results and not holding guys responsible doesn't bode well for any HC. 

 

Marvin is like that hypocritical parent that gets shit faced drunk ever weekend but tells their teenager to not drink or use drugs. He's lost his credibility by not requiring competition for all spots on the roster and for giving umpteen chances and making extremely lame excuses for morons like Pacman.

 

 

Pacman was charged with crimes he did not commit.  You honestly think players prefer a coach who will cut a player for getting charged with crimes he was innocent of?  Where would you come up with such a ridiculous idea? The players love a coach who supports the players like Pacman when knee-jerk fans want to cut a player based on lies told against him.

 

This is just a case of you imagining that players agree with you despite having zero evidence.

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2 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

 They are more physically talented and don't have a habit of playing horrible in big games.

They have a habit of playing so poorly that they never make it to any "big games".

 

What did Winston do last year when his team was 8-5 and still in the playoff hunt?  He threw 3 interceptions in a loss to the Cowboys that torpedoed their playoff hopes.

 

But don't let facts get in the way of your judgement.  Who needs facts when you have already created a solid opinion based on total bullshit.

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2 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

Dalton isn't that well respected around the league because he has a low floor and ceiling.

Dalton finished 2nd in the league with a 106.2 passer rating in 2015.  He was being discussed as an MVP candidate.  How is that a "low ceiling"?

 

Oops, I forgot.  Who needs facts when you have a bullshit opinion, right?

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49 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Dalton finished 2nd in the league with a 106.2 passer rating in 2015.  He was being discussed as an MVP candidate.  How is that a "low ceiling"?

 

Oops, I forgot.  Who needs facts when you have a bullshit opinion, right?

You are right that Andy was having a very good year for him in 2015.  But other than 2015 hasn't Andy's rating been less than 85 in 50% of his games?  And under 75 in around 33% of his games.  Andy seems to be a pretty good vs not so hot kind of QB.  If Andy is hot for the right games then he is capable of winning a SB.  But the odds are not in his favor.

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