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How far can Andy Dalton take the Bengals?


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43 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Why not start him?  

Because Andy Dalton is the best NFL QB available to us between our roster and the free agency pool and we're only heading into the 3rd week of the season.

 

Sure this year doesn't look good, but week 3 isn't the time to declare the season to be lost and start getting your backups more reps.

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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

Funny that he did not mention that we lost on a McCarron fumble in overtime.

 

And that was the game he was holding up to prove how clutch McCarron was.:lol:

It was his second career start and he took them to overtime.  Two weeks later he threw a 24 yard td pass with 1:54 left in the 4th quarter of a PLAYOFF game to take the lead.  First time in 24 years we lead a playoff game in the 4th quarter.

 

Sorry, Dalton' s utter vomit job against San Diego in his 54th career start is the only thing I remember about The Red Rifle.  I don't remember any of his great games because that one was so aweful.

3rd Quarter 12:49 Dalton sacked, punt            7-10 Cincinnati

3rd quarter 5:31 Dalton Fumble                     14-10 San Diego

3rd quarter 1:19 Dalton Interception              17-10 San Diego

4th quarter 10:33 Dalton Interception            20-10 San Diego

4th Quarter 4:50  Turnover ball on downs      20-10 San Diego

4th Quarter 3:13   Turnover ball on downs      20-10 San Diego

And to top it our last possession, 3 and goal on the 6 with no timeouts and 12 seconds remaining, Andy throws a 3 yard pass to Gio in the middle of the field.  Clock runs out, game over. 27-10 San Diego.

 

That is what I remember most about Andy Dalton.  He has done nothing since to remove this memory from my brain.  

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17 minutes ago, SF2 said:

It was his second career start and he took them to overtime.  Two weeks later he threw a 24 yard td pass with 1:54 left in the 4th quarter of a PLAYOFF game to take the lead.  First time in 24 years we lead a playoff game in the 4th quarter.

 

Sorry, Dalton' s utter vomit job against San Diego in his 54th career start is the only thing I remember about The Red Rifle.  I don't remember any of his great games because that one was so aweful.

Apology accepted.

 

Thanks for admitting that you only judge McCarron by one pass and Dalton by one game.  That explains why you come to such stupid conclusions.

 

Now run along and start a thread about how the Bengals should sign unemployed QB Mark Sanchez.  I mean he is one of the greatest QBs in history based on his 127 passer rating in a playoff win against the Patriots.  That is all it takes to convince you, right?

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50 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Apology accepted.

 

Thanks for admitting that you only judge McCarron by one pass and Dalton by one game.  That explains why you come to such stupid conclusions.

That is fine.   You keep riding your unicorn and follow that rainbow, eventually, maybe in Marvin's 18th or 20th year, we will win that elusive playoff game.   Robert E. Lee won a lot battles, he also got his ass kicked in the most important one: Gettysburg.  Only someone like me who studied the Civil War can name battles Lee won but almost everyone knows about Gettysburg, its his legacy.

 

I remember how many would point to Peyton Manning talking about how long it took him win a playoff game.  The Colts played in the AFC title game in Manning's 6th year.  Last year, Dalton's 6th, we were 24th in points scored and won 6 games.  That was with Whit and Zeitler.

 

BTW, I don't think McCarron is any better than Dalton,  I just don't want to see that frightened deer at QB anymore.  It has been close to two years since he has played well for more than a game.  The terrible games stand out due to them being so horrible.  Can you name another QB who has had a passer rating of 2 in a home loss(to the Browns)?  How about the OT loss to the Dolphins in 2013?   Drop back 8 yards into the endzone and get sacked in OT?  Dalton is so Jekyl and Hyde.  You never know what the hell you are getting.   

 

Eli Manning got his ass kicked yesterday.  He kept getting back up and tried to make plays.  Stood in the pocket like he has his whole career and tried to make plays knowing his left tackle was garbage and he was going to get hit.  I think he is close to done but at least he is going out like a football player. 

 

Baltimore and Pitt are both 2-0 and both are better teams than we are.  The AFC West has Denver, KC and Oakland.  It would be a miracle to win 10 of the next 14 games and somehow get a wildcard at this point. 

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Welp if the OL continues as is, Dalton will be riding the injury report and McC will be the next one running for their lives..

I'll be honest, the minute Hill fumbled away the Steeler playoff victory it was like they unplugged the vacuum. 

THAT was clean house time - starting with Marvin ending with Dalton, but instead KEEPING the OL guys. 

Ugh barf.

At 51, I'm starting to consider the reality that this team may never win another playoff in my lifetime.

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1 hour ago, SF2 said:

BTW, I don't think McCarron is any better than Dalton,  I just don't want to see that frightened deer at QB anymore. 

Dalton is not a "frightened deer".  He is much better in the pocket than McCarron.  AJ just freezes and gets sacked.  That is why he was sacked TWICE as often as Dalton playing behind the same O-line in 2015.

 

Dalton is inconsistent, but he is still one of the better starting QBs in the league.

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4 hours ago, BENGALS666 said:

Welp if the OL continues as is, Dalton will be riding the injury report and McC will be the next one running for their lives..

I'll be honest, the minute Hill fumbled away the Steeler playoff victory it was like they unplugged the vacuum. 

THAT was clean house time - starting with Marvin ending with Dalton, but instead KEEPING the OL guys. 

Ugh barf.

At 51, I'm starting to consider the reality that this team may never win another playoff in my lifetime.

Watching Marvin on the sideline while they were kicking the field goal, at the end of that game, made me feel sad for the entire organization.  I think you are correct though, if the OL does not hold, AJ McCarron will see some playing time, just because AD will sustain an injury.  

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55 minutes ago, Rick said:

Don’t tell me it’s Andy!

As of 2017's NFL off-season, Dalton held at least 18 Bengals franchise records, including:

  • Completions: playoff game (29 on 2014-01-05 SDG), rookie season (300 in 2011)
  • Pass Attempts: season (586 in 2013), playoff game (51 on 2014-01-05 SDG), rookie season (516 in 2011)
  • Passing Yards: season (4,293 in 2013), rookie season (3,398 in 2011)
  • Passing TDs: season (33 in 2013), rookie season (20 in 2011)
  • Passer Rating: career (89.1)
  • Sacked: season (46 in 2012)
  • Pass Yds/Game: career (238.9)
  • 300+ yard passing games: season (6 in 2013), rookie season (2; with Carson Palmer)
  • 4,000+ passing yard seasons: career (2; with Carson Palmer)
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17 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

As of 2017's NFL off-season, Dalton held at least 18 Bengals franchise records, including:

  • Completions: playoff game (29 on 2014-01-05 SDG), rookie season (300 in 2011)
  • Pass Attempts: season (586 in 2013), playoff game (51 on 2014-01-05 SDG), rookie season (516 in 2011)
  • Passing Yards: season (4,293 in 2013), rookie season (3,398 in 2011)
  • Passing TDs: season (33 in 2013), rookie season (20 in 2011)
  • Passer Rating: career (89.1)
  • Sacked: season (46 in 2012)
  • Pass Yds/Game: career (238.9)
  • 300+ yard passing games: season (6 in 2013), rookie season (2; with Carson Palmer)
  • 4,000+ passing yard seasons: career (2; with Carson Palmer)

I was afraid of this. 

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15 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

You want to hear something really crazy - That puts him at #18 on the all-time list for any team.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

Yeah,  right behind Colin Kaepernick, 2 spots behind Matt Schaub and 4 spots lower than Chad Pennington.   Superstar!!!

 

BTW, after two games he is 33rd in QB rating.  Last year he was 15.  Regressing. 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Yeah,  right behind Colin Kaepernick, 2 spots behind Matt Schaub and 4 spots lower than Chad Pennington.   Superstar!!!

 

 

 

The only accurate way to judge QBs is against other QBs who played at the same time.

 

Over the first 6 seasons of Dalton's career he ranked...

 

2nd in rushing tds

4th in wins

5th in Pro Bowl selections

6th in lowest fumbles per pass attempt (min 1500 att)

7th in winning percentage

8th in "fourth quarter comebacks" (fourth quarter scoring drive when the team is trailing by one score in a game that ends in a win or tie)

8th in "game winning drives" (a scoring drive in the fourth quarter or overtime that puts the winning team ahead to stay)

9th in passing tds

10th in passing yards

14th in passer rating (min 1500 att)

 

Superstar?  No.  Not claiming he is.

 

Deserving of being benched.  Not even close.

 

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2 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

The only accurate way to judge QBs is against other QBs who played at the same time.

 

Over the first 6 seasons of Dalton's career he ranked...

 

2nd in rushing tds

4th in wins

5th in Pro Bowl selections

6th in lowest fumbles per pass attempt (min 1500 att)

7th in winning percentage

8th in "fourth quarter comebacks" (fourth quarter scoring drive when the team is trailing by one score in a game that ends in a win or tie)

8th in "game winning drives" (a scoring drive in the fourth quarter or overtime that puts the winning team ahead to stay)

9th in passing tds

10th in passing yards

14th in passer rating (min 1500 att)

 

Superstar?  No.  Not claiming he is.

 

Deserving of being benched.  Not even close.

 

Actually, I was just making fun of the ranking system, not Dalton.  The system gives way too much credit for cimpleted 2 yard passes.  The Superstar comment was actually directed to Schaub, Penmington and Kap in jest.

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23 hours ago, fredtoast said:

The only accurate way to judge QBs is against other QBs who played at the same time.

 

Over the first 6 seasons of Dalton's career he ranked...

 

2nd in rushing tds

4th in wins

5th in Pro Bowl selections

6th in lowest fumbles per pass attempt (min 1500 att)

7th in winning percentage

8th in "fourth quarter comebacks" (fourth quarter scoring drive when the team is trailing by one score in a game that ends in a win or tie)

8th in "game winning drives" (a scoring drive in the fourth quarter or overtime that puts the winning team ahead to stay)

9th in passing tds

10th in passing yards

14th in passer rating (min 1500 att)

 

Superstar?  No.  Not claiming he is.

 

Deserving of being benched.  Not even close.

 

Dalton has threw more interceptions than any QB since 2011, 32 to be exact. But thats not important to Dalton humpers.

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13 minutes ago, fresno bengal said:

Dalton has threw more interceptions than any QB since 2011, 32 to be exact. But thats not important to Dalton humpers.

Matthew Stafford has thrown 88 INT since 2011. Also, Andy has thrown 85, not 32 since 2011.

 

But, nice try? I'm not even sure what to say about that :lol:

 

Oh, and has THROWN. Thrown, not threw. Thrown.

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57 minutes ago, A Rock said:

Stats are never the whole story, and sometimes they're downright misleading.

Sure...

 

Like, his shitty stats this year, in and of themselves, don't explain just how putrid and insufficient his protection has been. It's so easy to look at line item stats like QBR, rating, completion percentage, turnovers and just blame the individual. But, it's largely bullshit.

 

It may well be that Andy has begun a downhill slide, it really could be happening. But, it's not fair to judge it after this season's body of work...nor last season's. He's working behind some garbage and with an inept, incapable coordinator to boot.

Remember when Jackson was here? Remember how much autonomy Dalton had? How much leeway he had to hurry the offense up and check down at the line? I'd love to see someone dig up stats on how much audibling he did under Zamp versus previous seasons.

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On 9/19/2017 at 3:34 PM, SF2 said:

 

 

BTW, I don't think McCarron is any better than Dalton,  I just don't want to see that frightened deer at QB anymore.  

I think this is the crux of the argument, and Dalton has to erase this perception on Sunday or he does in fact need to be benched. I agree that Dalton and McCarron are about equal in terms of talent, but the big question is...are they equal in terms of leading the team, even under severe duress because the line sucks? That's the $100 million dollar question Bengals fans are dying to find out. I mean, are we trying to save our season, or what? If Dalton continues to suck and we continue to stick with him, by the time we're 2-8 it's a little late for saving the season and then all you're doing by benching Dalton is showcasing McCarron for other teams because I guarantee you he will walk.

 

My take is that Dalton starts the first half against the Packers, and if he sucks by halftime, we make the change and make it permanent if McCarron even shows SLIGHT improvement over Dalton. Recall that Andy has a team friendly contract...we could cut him after this season if McCarron does well and not suffer too badly in dead money, cap room, etc. 

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1 hour ago, thezerawkid said:

Sure...

 

Like, his shitty stats this year, in and of themselves, don't explain just how putrid and insufficient his protection has been. It's so easy to look at line item stats like QBR, rating, completion percentage, turnovers and just blame the individual. But, it's largely bullshit.

 

It may well be that Andy has begun a downhill slide, it really could be happening. But, it's not fair to judge it after this season's body of work...nor last season's. He's working behind some garbage and with an inept, incapable coordinator to boot.

Remember when Jackson was here? Remember how much autonomy Dalton had? How much leeway he had to hurry the offense up and check down at the line? I'd love to see someone dig up stats on how much audibling he did under Zamp versus previous seasons.

It does seem like Dalton had more freedom with Jackson here and the offense was a lot faster. I believe it helped a lot. 

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