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schotzee

Marvin Lewis's biggest fault

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I agree schotzee, he coaches with clenched buttocks, that's for sure.  I think there is something to teams taking on the personality of their coach, which is not an overall good thing when it comes to Marvin.

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7 minutes ago, Khatmandude said:

I agree schotzee, he coaches with clenched buttocks, that's for sure.  I think there is something to teams taking on the personality of their coach, which is not an overall good thing when it comes to Marvin.

His buttocks is clinched around his head.

 

Yes, 100% to the team being a reflection of the coach.  Just like winning is contagious, so is mediocrity.

 

I think the teams are often mentally unprepared (all the dumb ass pre snap penalties) ... too many time outs before snaps to get organized or the right or right number of people on the field.  I recall once when they came out of the two minute warning and took a time out.   And are too often complacent with a 3 point lead late in the game... and blow it.  I do not think Marvin has a good awareness of what is going on on the field at all ... clock management especially late in the half or game.

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14 minutes ago, Khatmandude said:

I agree schotzee, he coaches with clenched buttocks, that's for sure.  I think there is something to teams taking on the personality of their coach, which is not an overall good thing when it comes to Marvin.

 

I am with this for sure too...   

I don't hate Marvin.. I will actually always have a soft spot for him for getting us out of the 90's/early 2000's.. but his shit has gotten old..

and 0-7 speaks for itself, you can blame players, refs and bad luck (which I have on all of these)... but still 0-7 and we see his game management...

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36 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

His buttocks is clinched around his head.

 

Yes, 100% to the team being a reflection of the coach.  Just like winning is contagious, so is mediocrity.

 

I think the teams are often mentally unprepared (all the dumb ass pre snap penalties) ... too many time outs before snaps to get organized or the right or right number of people on the field.  I recall once when they came out of the two minute warning and took a time out.   And are too often complacent with a 3 point lead late in the game... and blow it.  I do not think Marvin has a good awareness of what is going on on the field at all ... clock management especially late in the half or game.

You nailed it. He coaches in a bubble. Needs to pay more, or any, attention to the game in front of him. He'd make an excellent coordinator, but he can't coach a second half to save his life. There's a time to realize your going to have to loosen up your game plan, or you'll have no chance of winning. There's also a time to realize the opposing team, unlike us, is going to take chances when they have nothing left to lose. 

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4 hours ago, schotzee said:

He's too conservative. Why? I suppose he doesn't trust his players to always do their jobs. Any thoughts on this thought?

Marvin's philosophy is not to screw-up and hope the other team screws-up. So, you could say that he trusts his players to do their jobs more than he trusts the other team to do theirs.

You'll hear it every time he talks about "Limiting explosive plays". "Taking advantage of what the defense gives us..." I don't ever think I've heard him talk about the offense "setting the tone". That's code for being aggressive.

IMHO - You see that with Defensive coaches who become HC's. It's part of the mentality that drew them to coaching defense in the first place.

Beyond that, his clock management makes me want to puke. He should be forced to play Madden until he learns how to use them at the end of the game.

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12 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:


Beyond that, his clock management makes me want to puke. He should be forced to play Madden until he learns how to use them at the end of the game.

This.  One of the worst I've ever seen.  He hasn't learned a damned thing from all the mistakes he has made. 

 

The challenges, or lack therof are pretty bad too. 

 

Basically, I think Marvin is a really good coach until it is gameday.

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4 hours ago, Khatmandude said:

I agree schotzee, he coaches with clenched buttocks, that's for sure.  I think there is something to teams taking on the personality of their coach, which is not an overall good thing when it comes to Marvin.

Good to see you back Khat

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13 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

Good to see you back Khat

 

The start of another NFL season brings out unsavory characters lol

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First of all before I start defending Marvin I will agree that he still has problems with clock management, and for some reason his teams fall flat in the playoffs.  But many of the criticisms I see are just not true.

 

First of all people complain that Marvin is too conservative, yet whenever I ask for a list of losses that were caused by him being too conservative no one seems to come up with any examples of us blowing a lead and losing a game because we played to conservative with a lead.  On the other hand I can point out that we lost to Tampa Bay in 2010 because Marvin was to aggressive throwing the ball with a 7 point lead and only 2 minutes left in the game.  The truth is that most teams in the league run the ball more when they have a lead in the 2nd half.  The reason they do that is because it gives them the best chance to win. 

 

Second, many fans claim that Marvin never makes any in game adjustments, but since 2011 the Bengals have been one of the best come from behind teams in the league.  Only 5 teams have more come from behind wins and a higher win percentage in games where they trailed.

 

Finally, regarding challenges, Marvin has doen something to improve his record early in his career.  His first 5 years as a head coach he threw the flag 29 times and was only right 7 times (24.1%).  Over the next 5 years he was right on 13 of 27 (48.1%).  And over the last 4 years he has been correct on 18 of 27 (66.7%).  The most recent numbers I can find comparing all NFL coaches are from before the '15 season.  At that time Marvin had been correct on 44.3% of his challenges and that ranked 26th out of the 87 coaches that had made at least 10 challenges.

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42 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

First of all before I start defending Marvin I will agree that he still has problems with clock management, and for some reason his teams fall flat in the playoffs.  But many of the criticisms I see are just not true.

 

First of all people complain that Marvin is too conservative, yet whenever I ask for a list of losses that were caused by him being too conservative no one seems to come up with any examples of us blowing a lead and losing a game because we played to conservative with a lead.  On the other hand I can point out that we lost to Tampa Bay in 2010 because Marvin was to aggressive throwing the ball with a 7 point lead and only 2 minutes left in the game.  The truth is that most teams in the league run the ball more when they have a lead in the 2nd half.  The reason they do that is because it gives them the best chance to win. 

 

Second, many fans claim that Marvin never makes any in game adjustments, but since 2011 the Bengals have been one of the best come from behind teams in the league.  Only 5 teams have more come from behind wins and a higher win percentage in games where they trailed.

 

Finally, regarding challenges, Marvin has doen something to improve his record early in his career.  His first 5 years as a head coach he threw the flag 29 times and was only right 7 times (24.1%).  Over the next 5 years he was right on 13 of 27 (48.1%).  And over the last 4 years he has been correct on 18 of 27 (66.7%).  The most recent numbers I can find comparing all NFL coaches are from before the '15 season.  At that time Marvin had been correct on 44.3% of his challenges and that ranked 26th out of the 87 coaches that had made at least 10 challenges.

Idk Fred, it just seems like when this team has leads(obviously talking about past years teams)it just seems like they don't have the go for the jugular attitude when momentum is way on their side. If that makes sense.No I don't have examples off the top of my head.

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8 minutes ago, schotzee said:

Idk Fred, it just seems like when this team has leads(obviously talking about past years teams)it just seems like they don't have the go for the jugular attitude when momentum is way on their side. If that makes sense.No I don't have examples off the top of my head.

This is what almost everyone who agrees with you claims.  The fact is that Marvin is more conservative with a lead in the 2nd half because that is the best way to win games.  Fans may not like it, but Marvin is more about winning games than pleasing fans, and pretty much no one can come up with an example where his conservative play has cost us a game.  And the "go for the jugular attitude" that some fans want cost us a victory in 2010.

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46 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

This is what almost everyone who agrees with you claims.  The fact is that Marvin is more conservative with a lead in the 2nd half because that is the best way to win games.  Fans may not like it, but Marvin is more about winning games than pleasing fans, and pretty much no one can come up with an example where his conservative play has cost us a game.  And the "go for the jugular attitude" that some fans want cost us a victory in 2010.

I'll take your word because I really don't have facts otherwise. For the record , a win doesn't have to be pretty for me. 

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49 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

This is what almost everyone who agrees with you claims.  The fact is that Marvin is more conservative with a lead in the 2nd half because that is the best way to win games.  Fans may not like it, but Marvin is more about winning games than pleasing fans, and pretty much no one can come up with an example where his conservative play has cost us a game.  And the "go for the jugular attitude" that some fans want cost us a victory in 2010.

For me it's not just that he's too conservative, it's that he's too inflexible.  He's a great defensive coordinator, and his stick to the plan style does work often. Just never in the playoffs or even most big regular season games. Last year the team blew first half leads three times (Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Houston) out of nine losses. That doesn't tell the story to me though. Our defense wasn't as good as 2015 when all indicators early on were that Cincy was the team to beat. There weren't leads to blow, the system wasn't working as well. Things were firing on all cylinders 2015 though. Second best defense in the entire league. Then the wheels started falling off. 8-0 first half of season. 4-4 second half of season. Three of the four losses are blown first half leads. Still, the story isn't the stats to me. Mike Mitchell says on social media that he's going to intentionally injure Bengal players, then he brutally spears Eifert in the head. Tyler gone with a serious concussion. Marvin claps encouragement on the sideline and accepts 15 yards in exchange for our star tight end. No amount of flipping out would've been too much for Lewis at this point. Even an ejection would've been good because the attention would've also been on why you were ejected (Mitchell's dirty hit). To your point that his aggression has cost us games, again I think it's his inflexibility. No way Hill should have been screaming into the Steeler secondary alone with the football in the wild card game. That's the play they call with 1st and 10 at that field position. Probably too aggressive when a turnover is the only way you can lose the game though.

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