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Eifert doubtful with back and knee injuries


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26 minutes ago, whodey? said:

He did say in a perfect world, which I took as when healthy he's as talented. 

When he is healthy he is upper middle of the road.  Julius Thomas type TE.  He is more like Dennis Pitta than anything else.  39 yards a game (based on games played in) is not even close to an upper echelon TE in this league. Even in his best season he  only averaged 47.3 yards per game.  

 

Tony Gonzales averaged 56.0 per game his ENTIRE career and 53.7 his final year at age 37 getting 859 yards while playing every game and that is with Julio Jones and Roddy White on the team.  Jason Witten has similar stats.  The most important  stat of course is that in 31 combined years of play only Jason Witten has missed a game.  1 game.

 

Eifert is a slightly above average TE that cant stay healthy.  He is easily replaceable and there is no reason to resign him unless it is an incentive heavy contract with little guaranteed money. 

 

Gresham was a better player for us.  

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3 minutes ago, SF2 said:

When he is healthy he is upper middle of the road.  Julius Thomas type TE.  He is more like Dennis Pitta than anything else.  39 yards a game (based on games played in) is not even close to an upper echelon TE in this league. Even in his best season he  only averaged 47.3 yards per game.  

 

Tony Gonzales averaged 56.0 per game his ENTIRE career and 53.7 his final year at age 37 getting 859 yards while playing every game and that is with Julio Jones and Roddy White on the team.  Jason Witten has similar stats.  The most important  stat of course is that in 31 combined years of play only Jason Witten has missed a game.  1 game.

 

Eifert is a slightly above average TE that cant stay healthy.  He is easily replaceable and there is no reason to resign him unless it is at league minimum with incentives for games played. 

You're contradictory in your own post.  You say when healthy he is only this.  Then you go on to say he can't stay healthy, so how on Earth can you make that first statement?

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9 minutes ago, schotzee said:

You're contradictory in your own post.  You say when healthy he is only this.  Then you go on to say he can't stay healthy, so how on Earth can you make that first statement?

So when he is healthy, he plays in games.   Now are you following me?  In 2015 he managed to play in 13 games and posted decent stats.  He still missed 3 games.  The year before he managed 1 game.  In 2016 he played in only 8 games.

 

So in those games he played,..he was a slightly above average tight end based on his stats.  If he played in every game, he would be considered a very good TE in the league.   He is a good blocker too but he simply cant stay on the field.   In the last 5 years he has broken 100 yards twice in 39 games.  Gronk has done it 15 times in 48 games and he has certainly had his share of injuries.  The fact is Gronk is difference maker when he plays, Eifert is another weapon but rarely has difference making games. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, SF2 said:

So when he is healthy, he plays in games.   Now are you following me?  In 2015 he managed to play in 13 games and posted decent stats.  He still missed 3 games.  The year before he managed 1 game.  In 2016 he played in only 8 games.

 

So in those games he played,..he was a slightly above average tight end based on his stats.  If he played in every game, he would be considered a very good TE in the league.   

 

 

So you are telling me in so many words that if Tyler stayed healthy and he was in New England with Brady and that supporting , he isn't at least just a notch below Gronkowski, which is what I originally said.... I say you're full of crap.

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20 minutes ago, schotzee said:

and.... I originally said I wouldn't put him much below. To me that doesn't mean I'm saying he's equal to begin with. I also stated staying healthier and a similar supporting cast as perfect world.

He is considerably below Gronk.  It is not even debatable.  Gronk takes over games and is near impossible to cover.   Granted, he has Brady as his QB but he terrorizes linebackers and safties particularly after he catches the ball.    

 

There is no comparison.   When Gronk plays he averages 69 yards per game / 15.1 yards per reception , Eifert only 39 / 12.1 yards per reception.  That is a huge difference.

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17 minutes ago, schotzee said:

So you are telling me in so many words that if Tyler stayed healthy and he was in New England with Brady and that supporting , he isn't at least just a notch below Gronkowski, which is what I originally said.... I say you're full of crap.

Eifert doesn't stay healthy and when he is, his stats suggest he isn't even close to Gronkowski production wise.  In 2015 Gronk averaged 78.4 yards per game.  He was their top receiver.   In that same year, Eifert's best year, he averaged 47.3 yards per game.  Do you think playing for New England is somehow his going to improve his health?   Gronk has sustained a lot of injuries most from his violent style of running and play.  Eifert gets hurt falling down from simple tackles.

 

This is simply the continuation of the "I hate Jermaine Gresham" debate.  Eifert has never been a great player.  He has had a few good games  and 1 good season.  

 

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Like 2005 when that idiot Kimo von Oelhoffen snapped Palmer's leg, I'm stuck on 2015. It's not often enough when you're team is really good, and if they're not going to win it all, at least you're supposed to get the fun of watching them make a serious run at it. The moment I realized I was probably Charlie Brown getting ready to try and boot the football Lucy was inevitably going to pull away at the last second was the Mitchell hit on Eifert. Tyler was on a roll, as was the Bengal offensive up to that point. The hit was clearly intentional and the $23,000 fine on Mike cost the Stealers exactly zero on the field. While Burfict sits 3 games on his sofa for a hit that's a borderline penalty, Mitchell digs spare change from his sofa to pay for a hit that has cost Tyler a step that he never regained.

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59 minutes ago, A Rock said:

Like 2005 when that idiot Kimo von Oelhoffen snapped Palmer's leg, I'm stuck on 2015. It's not often enough when you're team is really good, and if they're not going to win it all, at least you're supposed to get the fun of watching them make a serious run at it. The moment I realized I was probably Charlie Brown getting ready to try and boot the football Lucy was inevitably going to pull away at the last second was the Mitchell hit on Eifert. Tyler was on a roll, as was the Bengal offensive up to that point. The hit was clearly intentional and the $23,000 fine on Mike cost the Stealers exactly zero on the field. While Burfict sits 3 games on his sofa for a hit that's a borderline penalty, Mitchell digs spare change from his sofa to pay for a hit that has cost Tyler a step that he never regained.

The fact is both Gresham and Eifert took more punishment than they should have because Dalton has a TERRIBLE habit of not hitting players in stride.  The result is they have to slow down and in some cases come to a complete stop to catch the ball which simply allows Safties and Linebackers the ability to line  them up for big hits.   Also, the insane amount of sit down routes we throw to our tight ends is crazy. It just gets them killed.  Watching Eifert and even Gresh catch the rare seam pass was a thing of beauty, too bad Dalton can't make that throw consistently without throwing numerous picks.  Today, Dalton throws to stationary receivers, out patterns (all the time) and the over the top pass.  

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Unlike Gresham, I never saw Eifert drop multiple passes in a playoff game and top it off with a false start.  He may have posted OK numbers overall but if you needed a clutch play he'd be focused on whether that cloud really looked like a dragon.  Duuuude it totally does :smoke:

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46 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Unlike Gresham, I never saw Eifert drop multiple passes in a playoff game and top it off with a false start.  He may have posted OK numbers overall but if you needed a clutch play he'd be focused on whether that cloud really looked like a dragon.  Duuuude it totally does :smoke:

I don't disagree.  He  is tied with most TD passes in the playoffs the last 26 years with Housh and Coles.   The figure is 1.

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On 9/19/2017 at 12:24 PM, SF2 said:

The fact is both Gresham and Eifert took more punishment than they should have because Dalton has a TERRIBLE habit of not hitting players in stride.  The result is they have to slow down and in some cases come to a complete stop to catch the ball which simply allows Safties and Linebackers the ability to line  them up for big hits. 

Dalton is no worse at this than the average NFL QB.  Dalton always ranks pretty much the same in YAC as he does in total yards.  If he was always throwing to stationary targets he would rank much lower in YAC.  In 2016 Eifert was 6th in the league in YAC among TEs. 

 

This reminds me of the old argument that "Bengal receivers are always tightly covered, but opponents receivers get wide open".  I would crush this argument by showing that the Bengal pass defense was one of the best in the league and that our passing numbers were always better than our opponents, but some people would refuse to admit that they were wrong.

 

Just a classic case of Bengal fans being the harshest critics of the Bengals.  Dalton is not below average in hitting receivers in stride.

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Eifert is not as good as Gronk.  Gronk is arguably the greatest receiving TE in the history of the game.  However Gronks his total yardage numbers are somewhat inflated by the fact that the Patriots never had a good WR on the field with Gronk while Eifert has always been playing with Green.

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11 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Eifert is not as good as Gronk.  Gronk is arguably the greatest receiving TE in the history of the game.  However Gronks his total yardage numbers are somewhat inflated by the fact that the Patriots never had a good WR on the field with Gronk while Eifert has always been playing with Green.

I agree but that is by design.  They haven't had a true #1 receiver since Moss.  In the last 9 years the top receivers have been Welker 5X, Gronk 2X Edelman 2X.

 

No doubt it has helped Gronk's numbers but he will never pass Tony Gonzales as the greatest receiving TE due to numbers and Gonzales missing  only 1 game in 17 years which is just crazy.

 

If Eifert could stay healthy and Dalton/OC used him better than simple sit down routes he could be pretty special.  

 

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On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 12:24 PM, SF2 said:

The fact is both Gresham and Eifert took more punishment than they should have because Dalton has a TERRIBLE habit of not hitting players in stride.  The result is they have to slow down and in some cases come to a complete stop to catch the ball which simply allows Safties and Linebackers the ability to line  them up for big hits.   Also, the insane amount of sit down routes we throw to our tight ends is crazy. It just gets them killed.  Watching Eifert and even Gresh catch the rare seam pass was a thing of beauty, too bad Dalton can't make that throw consistently without throwing numerous picks.  Today, Dalton throws to stationary receivers, out patterns (all the time) and the over the top pass.  

Eifert had back injuries at Notre Dame as well.  

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50 minutes ago, SF2 said:

No doubt it has helped Gronk's numbers but he will never pass Tony Gonzales as the greatest receiving TE due to numbers and Gonzales missing  only 1 game in 17 years which is just crazy.

 

He will never match the career totals, but I still argue that Gronk is much better.

 

.........................................Gonzales.......Gronk......% better than Gonzales

yards per catch....................11.4............15.1...........32%

yards per game....................56.0............69.4...........24%

tds per game........................0.41...........0.77...........87%

 

Gronks yards per catch is just ridiculous for a TE.  Since he came into the leagu in 2010 there are 57 players with at least 300 receptions.  Gronk ranks 7th in yards per catch ahead of WRs like Jordy Nelson, Victor Cruz, AJ Green, Mike Wallace, Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, DeAndre Hopkins, Jeremy Maclin, Antonio Brown, and Larry Fitzgerald.

 

Only two players have more catches and a higher average per catch than Gronk since he came into the league and they are a couple of good ones....Calvin Johnson and Julio Jones.

 

And no player has more receiving tds than Gronk despite the fact that he has missed 24 games (a full season and a half) in the last 5 years.

 

 

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4 hours ago, fredtoast said:

He will never match the career totals, but I still argue that Gronk is much better.

 

.........................................Gonzales.......Gronk......% better than Gonzales

yards per catch....................11.4............15.1...........32%

yards per game....................56.0............69.4...........24%

tds per game........................0.41...........0.77...........87%

 

Gronks yards per catch is just ridiculous for a TE.  Since he came into the leagu in 2010 there are 57 players with at least 300 receptions.  Gronk ranks 7th in yards per catch ahead of WRs like Jordy Nelson, Victor Cruz, AJ Green, Mike Wallace, Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, DeAndre Hopkins, Jeremy Maclin, Antonio Brown, and Larry Fitzgerald.

 

Only two players have more catches and a higher average per catch than Gronk since he came into the league and they are a couple of good ones....Calvin Johnson and Julio Jones.

 

And no player has more receiving tds than Gronk despite the fact that he has missed 24 games (a full season and a half) in the last 5 years.

 

 

Gonzales played in 270 of 272 games which is 180 more than Gronk so far and has almost 9000 more reviving yards. 

 

Using your method, Bo Jackson is the second greatest RB because of his 5.4 yards per carry.  Longevity is important in the NFL,..unless you are a Stealer.

 

 

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9 hours ago, SF2 said:

Using your method, Bo Jackson is the second greatest RB because of his 5.4 yards per carry.

 

Bo Jackson WAS one of the greatest running backs to ever play in the NFL.  Curtis Martin is #4 in career rushing yards, but I don't consider him to be in the same class as Jackson.

 

We are just arguing semantics here.  I am talking about great talent while you are talking about great careers.

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9 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Bo Jackson WAS one of the greatest running backs to ever play in the NFL.  Curtis Martin is #4 in career rushing yards, but I don't consider him to be in the same class as Jackson.

 

We are just arguing semantics here.  I am talking about great talent while you are talking about great careers.

I agree.  Billy Simms is another Bo Jackson type RB.  My guess is Gonzales would have had 20,000+ yards playing in New England's Dink and Dunk offense.

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Eifert reportedly having more "tests" on his injured back.

 

I love Eifert.  When he is healthy I consider him one of only 4 "elite" players on our roster (Atkins, Green, Burfict).  But I am afraid he may be finished as a Bengal.  Back injuries are a nightmare. 

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The most important thing from this article is "Another notable development on the day was Trey Hopkins working on the rehab field. Hopkins is dealing with a knee injury that was thought to be significant, perhaps season-ending." Hopkins has looked pretty solid in preseason and until he went down in week 1. If he can turn into a solid starter, then we've actually got at least a pretty good interior line to go along with two projects at tackle. I haven't given up hope on either Ogbuehi or Fisher--remember that it took Bodine 2.5 seasons as a terrible starter before he actually turned into a pretty good center.

21 hours ago, Marlon23 said:

 

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4 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Eifert reportedly having more "tests" on his injured back.

 

I love Eifert.  When he is healthy I consider him one of only 4 "elite" players on our roster (Atkins, Green, Burfict).  But I am afraid he may be finished as a Bengal.  Back injuries are a nightmare. 

I agree. 

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