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7 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

 

 One ref called holding 2.5 times more than another over a seven game stretch. So, some refs call it more than others. Do you really think all seven games saw twice as much actual hoding when Ron Winter was reffing?

No, but I don't think Winter was picking on one team more thanothers.

 

Just like different umpires will have a different strike zone.  That is not a good thing, but as long as he calls it the same for both teams there is nothing crooked going on.

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I've said it before and I will say it again.  There is no officiating conspiracy in the NFL.  Too many people involved to keep it undisclosed this long.

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7 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Well, 7 teams... This was over a 7 game stretch.

Was he cvalling all of the holds on one team and none on the other?

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7 hours ago, fredtoast said:

That is exactly what every single delusional person says.

Great non sequitur. 

 

And I do not have a clue as to what you are even saying. 

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3 hours ago, Jason said:

I've said it before and I will say it again.  There is no officiating conspiracy in the NFL.  Too many people involved to keep it undisclosed this long.

Jay: have you read anything in this thread? 

 

Of course there is no "conspiracy". But, there is also an obvious league-developed slant towards making the games turn out the most profitable for them. It goes beyond just favoring the present "elites" ( those change annually), it is the fundamental transformation of legitimate sport to glitz entertainment. And if that is what the people want, the league will deliver it. 

 

But, as I continuously say, don't say that this transformation doesn't exist and that the game is a pristine as it was (sort of) 50 years ago. It is nowhere close, and that is completely obvious. 

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1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

But, as I continuously say, don't say that this transformation doesn't exist and that the game is a pristine as it was (sort of) 50 years ago. It is nowhere close, and that is completely obvious. 

If you want "pristine " football then that means you hate the forward pass.

 

Football, like every other sport has changed over the years.  But that does not mean it is getting worse. You say you love the game the way it was played 50 years ago, but back in 1967 there were grumpy old farts complaining about how facemasks and "specialists" who didn't play both offense and defense were turning a "legitimate sport" into "glitz entertainment".

 

And 20 years before that the old whiners were complaining about how the forward pass had turned football players into pussies.

 

The game is just as much a "legitimate sport" as it ever was.  In fact in my opinion it is more of a "legitimate sport " now than when it was just a bunch of guys in a scrum gouging each others eyes out.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Jay: have you read anything in this thread? 

 

Of course there is no "conspiracy". But, there is also an obvious league-developed slant towards making the games turn out the most profitable for them. It goes beyond just favoring the present "elites" ( those change annually), it is the fundamental transformation of legitimate sport to glitz entertainment. And if that is what the people want, the league will deliver it. 

 

But, as I continuously say, don't say that this transformation doesn't exist and that the game is a pristine as it was (sort of) 50 years ago. It is nowhere close, and that is completely obvious. 

There are those that disagree with that.

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5 hours ago, fredtoast said:

If you want "pristine " football then that means you hate the forward pass.

 

Football, like every other sport has changed over the years.  But that does not mean it is getting worse. You say you love the game the way it was played 50 years ago, but back in 1967 there were grumpy old farts complaining about how facemasks and "specialists" who didn't play both offense and defense were turning a "legitimate sport" into "glitz entertainment".

 

And 20 years before that the old whiners were complaining about how the forward pass had turned football players into pussies.

 

The game is just as much a "legitimate sport" as it ever was.  In fact in my opinion it is more of a "legitimate sport " now than when it was just a bunch of guys in a scrum gouging each others eyes out.

 

 

 

 

Who are you trying to convince, Fred? And what views are you trying to sway? If I say the pro game was more real on Opening Day 1968 at Nippert than Opening Day 2017 at PBS, will you just pull out some other series of non sequiturs? And since I just happened to be at both of those Opening Days, and countless other NFL contests in between, you don't think I haven't seen the changes over all that time? 

 

I guess this is where, in certain conversations where there is not even a partial agreeable conclusion to be reached, the ending is: "whatever, Fred". Feel free to follow this farce as you will--in the end, it is of no matter anyway. Enjoyment is of a personal nature. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

However, they were at least transparent about what they were doing, as opposed to the present-day NFL who hide behind this mirage of legitimacy--and just take the money of those schmucks who happen to pay to watch their Milwaukee Bucks, in the deluded belief they actually have a chance to be dealt with on the same levels as the chosen elites. 

 

It's eyes wide open: if one knows the situation--and enjoys it anyway--wonderful. Please enjoy. But, as I said, don't anyone say it doesn't exist. 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

 

 

Of course there is no "conspiracy".

 

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On 11/10/2017 at 6:42 PM, fredtoast said:

In fact, if you were really honest with yourself you would see missed calls go in favor of the Bengals from time to time.

On 01/10/2017 at 8:02 PM, VonBlade said:

against the Browns we can experience what all the other teams get. Nice to have dodgy calls go your way.

 

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59 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Conclusion, counselor? Both are accurate statements. I need not argue with myself. 

 

Again: whatever, Fred.

Right, because claiming there is a secret covert plan to favor certain elite teams is not the same as saying there is a conspiracy.

 

How could "anyone with a brain" ever think those two things are the same?

 

:lol:

 

 

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4 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Right, because claiming there is a secret covert plan to favor certain elite teams is not the same as saying there is a conspiracy.

 

How could "anyone with a brain" ever think those two things are the same?

 

:lol:

 

 

No, because you conclude nothing--other than running with non sequitur scissors. Arrogant inference is not conclusive, persuasive, argument. You have shown nothing, and continue to double-down on nothing. 

 

As I will say for the umpteenth time: the game has changed--from its purer roots to an entertainment industry. It does favor those who make them the most money. The changes in the game favor the maximization of profit and protection from litigation. This is done by regulatory means. This fundamentally changes the game. "Conspiracy"--or whatever the fuck you think it is, not only does not exist, it is unnecessary.

 

Is this clear enough, or do you again wish to put out mocking non sequiturs which only prove you have nothing to say? Whatever you do, I am done here.  

 

Please continue to follow this sport and believe it is this pristine example of professional purity. Many do, and no issues with that whatsoever. Just drop the Moses on The Mountain superiority bullshit. 

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2 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

 It does favor those who make them the most money. The changes in the game favor the maximization of profit and protection from litigation. This is done by regulatory means.

Okay, give me an example of an NFL regulation that treats the elite teams better than the rest of the league.  Because all I hear is the elite teams complaining about the revenue sharing with the poor teams.  Seems to be the exact opposite of what you are claiming.

 

If everything is rigged to help the big money makers then why do so many teams in the biggest richest markets suck.  The Giants, Chargers, Rams, Jets, Bears, Eagles, Cowboys, Niners, Redskins, and Texans all play in the 8 largest Designated Market Areas in the NFL.  Meanwhile Super Bowls are being won in many smaller DMAs like Seattle (14th), Denver (17th), Pittsburgh (23rd), and Green Bay (68th).

 

So give me a specific example to prove your point.

 

 "Conspiracy"--or whatever the fuck you think it is, not only does not exist, it is unnecessary.

 

If it is not necessary then why does the NFL "hide" behind the "mirage of legitimacy".  If it is so plain and out in the open then why doesn't everyone else see it?  If all of the poorer teams are being treated so unfairly why don't they complain.  They are all separate owners trying to make the most money they can.  So why would they not complain about the NFL favoring the elite teams?

 

 

 

Please continue to follow this sport and believe it is this pristine example of professional purity.

 

What do you even mean by "professional purity" and when did the NFL lose it?  Was it in 1943 when they made helmets mandatory?  Was that just a "cash grab" for the elite teams that ruined the game?  How about when they made it illegal to grab a runner by the facemask in 1953.  Was that decision just "profit driven" and did it turn the league into an "abomination"?  What about making crack back blocks illegal in 1974?  Was that a move to avoid litigation that ruined the "purity" of the game?

 

Seems to me that the NFL has been changing rules for years to protect the safety of the players.  So why has this suddenly become a bad thing that has ruined the game?

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2 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

No, because you conclude nothing--other than running with non sequitur scissors. Arrogant inference is not conclusive, persuasive, argument. You have shown nothing, and continue to double-down on nothing. 

 

As I will say for the umpteenth time: the game has changed--from its purer roots to an entertainment industry. It does favor those who make them the most money. The changes in the game favor the maximization of profit and protection from litigation. This is done by regulatory means. This fundamentally changes the game. "Conspiracy"--or whatever the fuck you think it is, not only does not exist, it is unnecessary.

 

Is this clear enough, or do you again wish to put out mocking non sequiturs which only prove you have nothing to say? Whatever you do, I am done here.  

 

Please continue to follow this sport and believe it is this pristine example of professional purity. Many do, and no issues with that whatsoever. Just drop the Moses on The Mountain superiority bullshit. 

Amen...

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On 10/12/2017 at 8:00 AM, fredtoast said:

No, but I don't think Winter was picking on one team more thanothers.

 

Just like different umpires will have a different strike zone.  That is not a good thing, but as long as he calls it the same for both teams there is nothing crooked going on.

 

18 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Okay, give me an example of an NFL regulation that treats the elite teams better than the rest of the league.  Because all I hear is the elite teams complaining about the revenue sharing with the poor teams.  Seems to be the exact opposite of what you are claiming.

 

If everything is rigged to help the big money makers then why do so many teams in the biggest richest markets suck.  The Giants, Chargers, Rams, Jets, Bears, Eagles, Cowboys, Niners, Redskins, and Texans all play in the 8 largest Designated Market Areas in the NFL.  Meanwhile Super Bowls are being won in many smaller DMAs like Seattle (14th), Denver (17th), Pittsburgh (23rd), and Green Bay (68th).

 

So give me a specific example to prove your point.

 

If it is not necessary then why does the NFL "hide" behind the "mirage of legitimacy".  If it is so plain and out in the open then why doesn't everyone else see it?  If all of the poorer teams are being treated so unfairly why don't they complain.  They are all separate owners trying to make the most money they can.  So why would they not complain about the NFL favoring the elite teams?

 

 

What do you even mean by "professional purity" and when did the NFL lose it?  Was it in 1943 when they made helmets mandatory?  Was that just a "cash grab" for the elite teams that ruined the game?  How about when they made it illegal to grab a runner by the facemask in 1953.  Was that decision just "profit driven" and did it turn the league into an "abomination"?  What about making crack back blocks illegal in 1974?  Was that a move to avoid litigation that ruined the "purity" of the game?

 

Seems to me that the NFL has been changing rules for years to protect the safety of the players.  So why has this suddenly become a bad thing that has ruined the game?

Because the Bengals cant win when they want them to.....no fair, no fair, no fair.   

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17 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Seems to me that the NFL has been changing rules for years to protect the safety of the players.  So why has this suddenly become a bad thing that has ruined the game?

Because they haven't changed the rules to a set of clear rules that are enforced to every player on every play.

 

They have introduced yet more vague rules open to wide interpretation that enable them to make the odd bogus call now and then, referring back to my previous "it's not how many but when" point.

 

Or are you suggesting that Burfict's hits were all illegal. Or Justin Smith cuddling the QB to the ground was a roughing call? Or ...

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6 hours ago, VonBlade said:

 

Or are you suggesting that Burfict's hits were all illegal. Or Justin Smith cuddling the QB to the ground was a roughing call? Or ...

Are you suggesting that there were never any questionable judgement calls made by refs 50 years ago?

 

Nothing has changed.  It has always been like that.  And sometimes the calls favor the Bengals.

 

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2 hours ago, fredtoast said:

  And sometimes the calls favor the Bengals.

 

Sure when they're playing the Cleveland Browns. Against say the Stealers, um not so much.

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1 hour ago, schotzee said:

Sure when they're playing the Cleveland Browns. Against say the Stealers, um not so much.

word 

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Hell no there is no collusion by refs and the NFL for the “marquee “ teams...

 

No way in hell that the NFL gave the Patriots a win today versus the Jets...

 

:ninja:

 

Take your ostrich ass heads out of the sand and acknowledge reality.

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I was just about to pop in and reinforce my "not how many but when" comment regarding the Jets game.

 

Funny how things work out isn't it. It's kind of the NFL to provide me with an instant demonstration of my point.

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