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Bengals TE Eifert reportedly considering another back surgery, which would end season


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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

Who said he was elite in '16 or 17?

 

BTW, you know how I can tell when I am winning an argument?  When the person on the other side has to resort to things like calling me "Skippy".

So now you are saying he isn't Elite or  are you saying for 13 WHOLE games in 2015, Tyler Eifert was as Elite as Nick Foles was in 2013?   My point is really more that you are ball washer.  You continue to carry water for an organization that has employed a coach for 15 years who hasn't even won a single playoff game and you defend him and the organization at every turn.    Eifert had one good season and that season ended with a complete meltdown in the wild card game.  Eiifert has an elite wife though.   

 

You make excuses for everything this organization does like drafting another TE in the first round 3 years after the first one.  From 2007 to 2016 only 6 TEs were chosen in the first round.  The teams that did it were the Jets, Bears, Detroit twice and the Bengals twice.  The Jets used the 30th pick to get Dustin Keller and Chicago used the 31st pick to get Greg Olsen.  Olsen is the only one who was worthy of being chosen in the first round albeit very late in the first round.   Good teams don't use high to mid first round picks on Tight ends.  It simply isn't a top 25 position.   We take 2 in 4 years.   You are way better off getting a good slot receiver and using your tight end to help pass and run block.   But you will defend the brain trust.  Brilliant moves. 

 

This begs the question why do we feel it is so important to spend first round picks on tight ends when the good teams use later picks to get decent players?   Why does Andy Dalton need so many weapons to be successful while most go QBs do with far less (and better O lines)?  Which brings us to,..

 

Why did we spend a first round pick on Ross, THE 9th pick no less?   He is not a #1 receiver.  He would not be a #1 receiver on this team until 2020 at best.  At 5'11" he is not tall enough to go up and get some of  Andy Dalton's passes time after time like Green can.  You don't use first round pics on #2 or #3 receivers.   In 10 years the Patriots highest drafted WR?  Aaron Dobson at pick 53 next is Brandon Tate at pick #83.   Green Bay?  Jordy Nelson  #36, Devante Adams #53, Randall Cobb #64.  Denver?  Demarious Thomas #22,  Eddie Royal #42.    Sure use a first round pick on a true #1 receiver, I have no problem with that.  Ross isn't that guy.   We just spent the #9 pick on Ted Ginn.   Brilliant. 

 

If he were on any NFC team most of us wouldn't even know who Eifert is other than for fantasy value.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, SF2 said:

 Good teams don't use high to mid first round picks on Tight ends.

 

 

Patriots.....Ben Watson and Danial Graham both in first round 2 years apart (not 3 like Bengals)...won a few Super Bowls

Giants......Jeremy Shockey in first round...won two Super Bowls

Colts........Dallas Clark in first round...won a Super Bowl

Ravens....Todd Heap in first round....won a Super Bowl

Stealers...Heath Miller in first round...won 2 Super Bowls

Niners......Vernon Davis in first round..made it to a Super Bowl

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10 hours ago, fredtoast said:

But if he only played 6 games that would be a lot less than eifert plyaed.  

 

So how could a guy who just played 6 games be elite?

Here's the problem with what you said: you didn't say that our hypothetical RB got hurt after those elite six games. I assumed you meant that he had put up those numbers so far and that you were trying to illustrate a point about a small sample size for qualifying for "eliteness", injuries or no. I should have amended what I replied to read "he's playing at an elite level right now" (like Eifert did in 2015 and hasn't before or since due to injury; hence, not elite).

 

I think the takeaway here is yet again, a body of work. Aaron Rodgers is elite despite now breaking both his collarbones because he continuously plays at an elite level, has done so for a long time, rarely has bad games and has won a Superbowl. And he isn't seriously injured often.

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5 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Patriots.....Ben Watson and Danial Graham both in first round 2 years apart (not 3 like Bengals)...won a few Super Bowls

Giants......Jeremy Shockey in first round...won two Super Bowls

Colts........Dallas Clark in first round...won a Super Bowl

Ravens....Todd Heap in first round....won a Super Bowl

Stealers...Heath Miller in first round...won 2 Super Bowls

Niners......Vernon Davis in first round..made it to a Super Bowl

First of all, you are going back more than 10 years. The rules have changed in favor of wide receivers in that time frame.  But just to humor you: 

 

I said, specifically, that using mid to early 1st round picks on a TE was foolish.  The position does NOT rate the pick in almost every case. 

 

Patriots.....Ben Watson 32nd pick.  

Patriots  Danial Graham bust.  Patriots learned their lessons and these 2 were hardly the reason why NE won Superbowls. 

 

Giants......Jeremy Shockey in first round...won two Super Bowls.  Chosen in 2002.  He was a good tight end.  There is 1.

 

Colts........Dallas Clark in first round...won a Super Bowl yeah, a team that needed defense chose a tight end.  Brilliant.  They only won 1 Superbowl with Peyton Manning and now the organization is garbage.  Wasted pick but good player. There is 2.

 

Ravens....Todd Heap in first round....won a Super Bowl 31st pick.

 

Stealers...Heath Miller in first round...won 2 Super Bowls 30th pick

 

Niners......Vernon Davis in first round..made it to a Super Bowl SF never had a top 10 offense in the 10 years he was there.  Good player though. There is 3.

 

BTW, neither Gresham or Eifert are as good as any of these guys save Daniel Graham. 

 

So going back 17 years we have what?  3 tight ends chosen mid round or higher in the first round of the draft that were worth the pick.   3 in 17 years.  

 

BTW, here are the first round WR chosen in that same time frame.  THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T WASTE a top 25 pick on a Tight END.  Protect your QB and let these guys get downfield. 

 

https://tinyurl.com/ycayzh4h

 

 

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2 hours ago, SF2 said:

First of all, you are going back more than 10 years. The rules have changed in favor of wide receivers in that time frame.  But just to humor you: 

 

I said, specifically, that using mid to early 1st round picks on a TE was foolish.  The position does NOT rate the pick in almost every case. 

 

Patriots.....Ben Watson 32nd pick.  

Patriots  Danial Graham bust.  Patriots learned their lessons and these 2 were hardly the reason why NE won Superbowls. 

 

Giants......Jeremy Shockey in first round...won two Super Bowls.  Chosen in 2002.  He was a good tight end.  There is 1.

 

Colts........Dallas Clark in first round...won a Super Bowl yeah, a team that needed defense chose a tight end.  Brilliant.  They only won 1 Superbowl with Peyton Manning and now the organization is garbage.  Wasted pick but good player. There is 2.

 

Ravens....Todd Heap in first round....won a Super Bowl 31st pick.

 

Stealers...Heath Miller in first round...won 2 Super Bowls 30th pick

 

Niners......Vernon Davis in first round..made it to a Super Bowl SF never had a top 10 offense in the 10 years he was there.  Good player though. There is 3.

 

BTW, neither Gresham or Eifert are as good as any of these guys save Daniel Graham. 

 

So going back 17 years we have what?  3 tight ends chosen mid round or higher in the first round of the draft that were worth the pick.   3 in 17 years.  

 

BTW, here are the first round WR chosen in that same time frame.  THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T WASTE a top 25 pick on a Tight END.  Protect your QB and let these guys get downfield. 

 

https://tinyurl.com/ycayzh4h

 

 

Bengals ... Mike Cobb.  1st round pick.  Cut after one season.

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4 hours ago, schotzee said:

Cool. I didn't know he could play tight end. :13_upside_down:

I don't think he can.  We don't need another tight end with Celestine Carter there to drop a ball with no one near him.  We're all set.

 

Nickerson was brought up to replace Burdock who was suspended during the bye week for unnecessary roughness while fluffing his pillow trying to go to sleep

Sunday night.

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13 hours ago, Bunghole said:

 

I think the takeaway here is yet again, a body of work.

I think the takeaway here is that you want to make up your own definition of "elite". If a player si elite at one time you can't later go back in tiome and say he was never elite because he got injure later in his career.

 

I said it was a shame we lost Eifert because he was elite.  Obviously he is not at an elite level now, but that does not mean he never was.  

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13 hours ago, SF2 said:

THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T WASTE a top 25 pick on a Tight END. 

 

 

Damn, SF2, if you are smarter than the trams that have won 12 of the last 17 Super Bowls why are you squealing on a message board instead of making millions in an NFL front office?

 

The best teams in the league choose TEs in the first round.  You can call them all stupid if you want, but the facts are the facts.

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3 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Damn, SF2, if you are smarter than the trams that have won 12 of the last 17 Super Bowls why are you squealing on a message board instead of making millions in an NFL front office?

 

The best teams in the league choose TEs in the first round.  You can call them all stupid if you want, but the facts are the facts.

No successful team (actually winning playoff games)  has spent a 1st round pick on a TE in the last 11 years unless you count this years  0-5 New York Giants who  took one this year.  Guess what, few good teams spend first round picks on running backs or #2 WRs either.

 

The game has changed and Eifert still isn't elite.  In the last 10 years neither Green Bay, Seattle, nor New England have chosen an offensive skill position in the first round.  The Stealers did in 2008. 

 

The last offensive player who wasn't a lineman chosen by the Packers?  QB Aaron Rodgers in 2005.

The last offensive player who wasn't a lineman chosen by the Patriots? RB Laurence Maroney in 2006 who only played 4 years there.

The last offensive player who wasn't a lineman chosen by the Seahawks? TE superstar Jerramy Stevens in 2002

The last offensive player who wasn't a lineman chosen by the Stealers? RB Rashard Mendenhall in 2008 who was decent.

The last offensive player who wasn't a lineman chosen by the Ravens? WR BUST Breshad Perriman in 2015 then Joe Flacco in 2008. 

The last offensive player who wasn't a lineman chosen by the Giants? WR Odell Beckham Jr. 2014 who is a #1 WR and possibly the best WR in the league when healthy.  Next RB David Wilson 2012 who was a bust. 

The last offensive player who wasn't a lineman chosen by the Broncos? QB Paxton Lynch 2016 sitting the bench.  Damarius Thomas WR 2010 who is a #1 receiver.

 

So what does the RECENT drafting habits of the recent Super Bowl winning teams tell you Fred (No, I don't care what happened in 2001)??      You spend first first round picks on lineman, QBs (if you have to) or #1 WRs.  Not tight ends, not #2 WRs and not  RBs.  

 

Now if you are Detroit, Cleveland or Cincinnati, you obviously are more intelligent and do the opposite.  I mean we do have a total of 2 playoff wins in a combined 75 years of of seasons among us.  I mean Cleveland loves drafting bad QBs, TEs, RBs  and slot receivers in the first round. Model franchise. 

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14 hours ago, fredtoast said:

I think the takeaway here is that you want to make up your own definition of "elite". If a player si elite at one time you can't later go back in tiome and say he was never elite because he got injure later in his career.

 

I said it was a shame we lost Eifert because he was elite.  Obviously he is not at an elite level now, but that does not mean he never was.  

How is defining "elite" by making it a prerogative to "join the elite club" by presuming elite level play without constant injury over a long (by NFL standards) period of time moving the goalposts? I meant what I said and I was clear. I don't know what the set amount of time is to be considered "elite" (and neither does anyone else), but in my example, Aaron Rodgers fits that definition while Eifert does not. Yes, Eifert played at an elite level in 2015, and never had before or since....therefore, not an elite player. Get it?

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9 hours ago, Bunghole said:

How is defining "elite" by making it a prerogative to "join the elite club" by presuming elite level play without constant injury over a long (by NFL standards) period of time moving the goalposts? 

Because you just said a player could be called "elite" after just six games.

 

When I see an elite player on a football field I say he is elite.  I don't say "I can't tell if he is elite or not becauase he might get hurt someday in the future."

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46 minutes ago, TheBeaverHunter said:

Did anyone else notice how Dalton used a lot of quick fakes in those plays to freeze players.  I haven't seen him do that at all this year.

 

Plus (and Lapham noted) Lazor has had the offense pick up the tempo of the game which I have been complaining about for years.  

It used to take for-freakin'-ever to get a play off and now not uncommon to get to the line and BOOM.

I like that a lot.

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3 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Plus (and Lapham noted) Lazor has had the offense pick up the tempo of the game which I have been complaining about for years.  

It used to take for-freakin'-ever to get a play off and now not uncommon to get to the line and BOOM.

I like that a lot.

It is one of the reasons much of the NFL is unwatchable.  Too many teams run the play clock down to 5 seconds on every play regardless of the situation.  Rookie QBs, backups, new coaches etc I guess.  Add in the penalties, replays and commercials and the games last too long and there are long breaks between each play and series.   Add in half the teams have adopted the New England Dink and Dunk and many games are simply unwatchable. 

 

I used to love when Boomer and the boys played the hurry up.  Exciting as hell and fun to watch.  At least Dalton throws the ball a lot and down field since we cant run it. 

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23 hours ago, SF2 said:

It is one of the reasons much of the NFL is unwatchable.  Too many teams run the play clock down to 5 seconds on every play regardless of the situation.  Rookie QBs, backups, new coaches etc I guess.  Add in the penalties, replays and commercials and the games last too long and there are long breaks between each play and series.   Add in half the teams have adopted the New England Dink and Dunk and many games are simply unwatchable. 

 

I used to love when Boomer and the boys played the hurry up.  Exciting as hell and fun to watch.  At least Dalton throws the ball a lot and down field since we cant run it. 

Yep. 

Its really noticeable at the stadium with a bunch of people on the field just standing around.

Also amusing how after a TV timeout or some other delay, Marvin calls a time out.

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34 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

Yep. 

Its really noticeable at the stadium with a bunch of people on the field just standing around.

Also amusing how after a TV timeout or some other delay, Marvin calls a time out.

That's the element of surprise.  No one expects a timeout after a timeout. :lol:

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ESPN had an interview with Eifert today.  Predictably, he declared his surgery a success and that he would be 100% by next season.  He referenced his looming free agency and said this off season will be just like it was heading into 2015, when he was injured early and recovered in time for OTA and training camp practices.  My takeaway is that he is as good as gone and everything we are hearing is to entice some team to gamble on him with a contract he likely won't live up to.  Remember, Eifert claimed he was 100% going into this season before suffering another back injury.  Needless to say buyer beware.  The history tells you this isn't a situation where Eifert will avoid injury or recover quickly if/when he does get hurt.  Anything other than an incentive based deal would be a mistake,  IMO.

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33 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

ESPN had an interview with Eifert today.  Predictably, he declared his surgery a success and that he would be 100% by next season.  He referenced his looming free agency and said this off season will be just like it was heading into 2015, when he was injured early and recovered in time for OTA and training camp practices.  My takeaway is that he is as good as gone and everything we are hearing is to entice some team to gamble on him with a contract he likely won't live up to.  Remember, Eifert claimed he was 100% going into this season before suffering another back injury.  Needless to say buyer beware.  The history tells you this isn't a situation where Eifert will avoid injury or recover quickly if/when he does get hurt.  Anything other than an incentive based deal would be a mistake,  IMO.

 

Yeah he obviously wasn't 100% at the start of the season, but he was good enough to limp onto the roster and get paid for the season anyway, then go on IR.  Kind of shady honestly.

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I believe Eifert has elite-level abilities, but abilities don't mean shit if you can't stay on the field.  I'd offer him a one-year, journeyman deal with benchmarks that would pay him elite-level money if he stays/produces on the field.  Anything more than that - let him walk.  Kroft is solid, Uzomah still shows promise, Hewitt is great at H-Back & Carter is more than serviceable for a UDFA.  1st/2nd string TE's are the very definition of Fungible.

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