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Ross Tucker's opinion on Cedric


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4 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

Any chance that we take an LT in round 1 this year and move Ced inside? Could he salvage his career being a guard instead? 

 

I think his skillset would make him an even worse guard than he is OT. Maybe his pass blocking could slightly improve inside but I don't think it would outweigh how badly he'd get punished in the run game and that's where we really need to see improvement right now. You can kind of scheme around bad pass blocking but there's nothing you can really do to scheme holes opening up to run through.

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Generally I don't put much faith in claims made by fans who claim they can see into the souls of players.

 

"Dude, it is obvious by the way AJ Green holds his shoulders while sitting on the bench that he hates Andy's guts and thinks Marvin is a sub-human mongoloid."

 

But at times it really looks like Ogbuehi's biggest problem is that he doesn't care very much.  A player's heart is hard to measure.  That is a big reason there are multiple first round flops in every draft.

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14 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

Any chance that we take an LT in round 1 this year and move Ced inside? Could he salvage his career being a guard instead? 

Probably not.  His big flaw seems to be drive and effort.  I don't think changing positions will make a difference.

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Nuthin' I'm gonna argue with.  Drafting him was a big mistake.  Going into this season thinking he was going to magically transform into even a mediocre LT was a monumental shitting of the bed - a fireable offense.  This alone should cost Lewis/Alexander their jobs.

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2 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Probably not.  His big flaw seems to be drive and effort.  I don't think changing positions will make a difference.

I'd put on the field strength and technique up there too. Which is crazy that the entire coaching staff didn't see this coming, or maybe they did and didn't want to admit it publicly, but the point is they didn't do anything about it.

 

Ogbuehi doesn't have much going for him except that he's got some athleticism for an OT. You don't have to be an expert on tackles to see that his form is terrible and that he isn't strong enough in the run game. He's bad at the basics and he's bad at the intricacies of the position, it's mindblowing that he was the 21st overall pick in the draft.

 

The positives that I can say about the Og pick are - 1. The 2015 draft was awful overall. Outside of the top 10-12 guys, there are actual GOOD players few and far between. No matter who we picked up there likely wouldn't have done much for us. Looking over that draft class again (not just ours but in the entire NFL) makes me at least feel a little bit less bad about our picks that year. Almost every team in the league had a bad 2015 draft. 2. He has looked OK in a game or two for us recently where the right side of the line has been awwwwwwwwwwwwwful pretty much all year. Bodine, anyone at RG, and Fisher have been unexplainable (is that a word?) levels of putrid. I've been focusing a lot on the right side and how bad they've been that I've been cutting Og a little bit of slack even though he's been basically awful himself.

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33 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

I'd put on the field strength and technique up there too. Which is crazy that the entire coaching staff didn't see this coming, or maybe they did and didn't want to admit it publicly, but the point is they didn't do anything about it.

 

Ogbuehi doesn't have much going for him except that he's got some athleticism for an OT. You don't have to be an expert on tackles to see that his form is terrible and that he isn't strong enough in the run game. He's bad at the basics and he's bad at the intricacies of the position, it's mindblowing that he was the 21st overall pick in the draft.

 

The positives that I can say about the Og pick are - 1. The 2015 draft was awful overall. Outside of the top 10-12 guys, there are actual GOOD players few and far between. No matter who we picked up there likely wouldn't have done much for us. Looking over that draft class again (not just ours but in the entire NFL) makes me at least feel a little bit less bad about our picks that year. Almost every team in the league had a bad 2015 draft. 2. He has looked OK in a game or two for us recently where the right side of the line has been awwwwwwwwwwwwwful pretty much all year. Bodine, anyone at RG, and Fisher have been unexplainable (is that a word?) levels of putrid. I've been focusing a lot on the right side and how bad they've been that I've been cutting Og a little bit of slack even though he's been basically awful himself.

Watch how bad this is..  lol https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/11/9/16626204/bengals-should-try-cedric-ogbuehi-at-wr-or-te

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19 minutes ago, snarkster said:

Nuthin' I'm gonna argue with.  Drafting him was a big mistake.  Going into this season thinking he was going to magically transform into even a mediocre LT was a monumental shitting of the bed - a fireable offense.  This alone should cost Lewis/Alexander their jobs.

That '15 draft killed this team.  Can't deny that.  But I'd just like to point out.

 

1.  Paul Alexander has been our O-line coach for 23 years and before Ogbuehi and Fisher we had had zero high picks (first two rounds) on the O-line flop. (Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Whitworth, Andre Smith).

 

2.  Ogbuehi had not yet had a healthy training camp.  Once the season starts there is very little contact. Rookies can't get the live reps they need to adjust to the NFL during the regular season.  Training camp is where all the learning and technique adjustments take place.  Regular season is more about meetings and walk throughs to game plan for a specific opponent.

 

3.  We could not have afforded to sign both Zeitler and Whitworth.  We have less than $13 million in cap space while Whitworth and Zeitler account for over $17 million this year.

 

All that being said, this wasn't just a couple of high picks that did not play up to their ratings.    These are guys who look horrible.  Not just "below average" bad, but like "worst in the league" bad.  I have seen some lame running games in my years as a Bengal fan, but none worse than this.

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5 hours ago, snarkster said:

Nuthin' I'm gonna argue with.  Drafting him was a big mistake.  Going into this season thinking he was going to magically transform into even a mediocre LT was a monumental shitting of the bed - a fireable offense.  This alone should cost Lewis/Alexander their jobs.

 

Drafting him was a mistake, but that's going to happen.  Every team misses on draft picks from time to time.  What bothers me is the stubborn unwillingness to admit it was a mistake, or at least hedge their bets with Whit or a cheaper stop-gap FA (eg; someone other than Smith, who you'd already let walk as being another whiff of a first round draft pick.)

 

Here's the thing with Alexander: he's protected. He's the only pre-Marvin AC still lingering. Suppose Marvin went to Mike and asked to dump him & got shut down.  Alexander would have to know he was on thin ice; this makes it very hard for him to admit he's fucked up, because that would make it difficult for the Redeemer to go on redeeming him.  It's like the entire organization is operating in C.Y.A. mode & has been for quite some time.  That's bad for any business, let alone one as scrutinized as an NFL franchise.

 

All speculation on my part I admit, but I'd say the accountability issue is an obvious one if nothing else.

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14 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

Alexander would have to know he was on thin ice; this makes it very hard for him to admit he's fucked up, because that would make it difficult for the Redeemer to go on redeeming him.  It's like the entire organization is operating in C.Y.A. mode & has been for quite some time.  That's bad for any business, let alone one as scrutinized as an NFL franchise.

 

I keep seeing this same argument over and over again and it makes zero sense.

 

A coach does not make himself look better or "cover his ass" by playing a bad player.  I don't know why anyoine would ever claim anything like this.  The only way a coach will look good is by putting the best player out there.  It is crazy to claim that a coach would intentionally play a lesser player to try and make himself look better.

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47 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

I keep seeing this same argument over and over again and it makes zero sense.

 

A coach does not make himself look better or "cover his ass" by playing a bad player.  I don't know why anyoine would ever claim anything like this.  The only way a coach will look good is by putting the best player out there.  It is crazy to claim that a coach would intentionally play a lesser player to try and make himself look better.

This team lets the coaches choose their players. If he stops playing Bodine-Fisher-Ogbuehi he is admitting that he chose wrong. 

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20 hours ago, fredtoast said:

That '15 draft killed this team.  Can't deny that.  But I'd just like to point out.

 

1.  Paul Alexander has been our O-line coach for 23 years and before Ogbuehi and Fisher we had had zero high picks (first two rounds) on the O-line flop. (Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Whitworth, Andre Smith).

 

2.  Ogbuehi had not yet had a healthy training camp.  Once the season starts there is very little contact. Rookies can't get the live reps they need to adjust to the NFL during the regular season.  Training camp is where all the learning and technique adjustments take place.  Regular season is more about meetings and walk throughs to game plan for a specific opponent.

 

3.  We could not have afforded to sign both Zeitler and Whitworth.  We have less than $13 million in cap space while Whitworth and Zeitler account for over $17 million this year.

 

All that being said, this wasn't just a couple of high picks that did not play up to their ratings.    These are guys who look horrible.  Not just "below average" bad, but like "worst in the league" bad.  I have seen some lame running games in my years as a Bengal fan, but none worse than this.

Whitworth is the only one they had to sign. The line just had to be average and not worst in the league. By not signing Whitworth this led directly to Dalton's bad season which has led to AJ Greens meltdown. Whit makes us a contender with a below average line. 

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On 11/10/2017 at 10:53 AM, fredtoast said:

Generally I don't put much faith in claims made by fans who claim they can see into the souls of players.

 

"Dude, it is obvious by the way AJ Green holds his shoulders while sitting on the bench that he hates Andy's guts and thinks Marvin is a sub-human mongoloid."

 

But at times it really looks like Ogbuehi's biggest problem is that he doesn't care very much.  A player's heart is hard to measure.  That is a big reason there are multiple first round flops in every draft.

Tucker is an ex nfl player. I believe he is a football anylsis now.

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5 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

This team lets the coaches choose their players. If he stops playing Bodine-Fisher-Ogbuehi he is admitting that he chose wrong. 

But he looks smarter by playing someone better.  

 

There is no way a coach thinks he looks better by playing inferior players.  That makes no sense at all.

 

Every coach knows that the only way he can look good is to play the best players.

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