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Ross Tucker's opinion on Cedric


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24 minutes ago, pucksinwah said:

Ced needs to be cut....

but he signed a 4 yr deal...

so I guess he will be here sucking for the next 2 seasons....

A.D. needs to roll out to his right on every passing play....

b/c Ced's going to get beat...

I say next draft...1st pick better be a LT

2nd pick should be a Center....

 

While I agree they need to draft replacements, they aren't going to go from bag of suck to credible NFL-quality OL in one draft.  Realistically they're going to need to overpay a free agent or two if they want to fix this in a single offseason.  Unfortunately that seems less likely than Alexander continuing to "see improvement" while his group loses us more games.  We have to hope that a new HC will be allowed to clean house in a way Marvin wasn't.  I wouldn't bet much on that, either.

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7 hours ago, fredtoast said:

But he looks smarter by playing someone better.  

 

There is no way a coach thinks he looks better by playing inferior players.  That makes no sense at all.

 

Every coach knows that the only way he can look good is to play the best players.

I think typically thats true. But he is so attached to those picks that he is being stubborn. Everything you are saying makes logical sense. It's just not how our perfectionistic brains actually work. 

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If we are talking about fixing the line I would start by pulling guys off stud lines practice squads. Cody Wichman has started in this league and is on the Titans line. Brad Seaton is a T on the Titans PS as well. Dillon Gordon is a tackle on the Eagles line. AT this point you can't keep walking the same guys out there. 

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2 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

If we are talking about fixing the line I would start by pulling guys off stud lines practice squads. Cody Wichman has started in this league and is on the Titans line. Brad Seaton is a T on the Titans PS as well. Dillon Gordon is a tackle on the Eagles line. AT this point you can't keep walking the same guys out there. 

 

Why not? They got rid of the blackout rules.

 

:ninja:

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17 hours ago, pucksinwah said:

Ced needs to be cut....

but he signed a 4 yr deal...

so I guess he will be here sucking for the next 2 seasons....

A.D. needs to roll out to his right on every passing play....

b/c Ced's going to get beat...

I say next draft...1st pick better be a LT

2nd pick should be a Center....

It really boils down to this question:  Is he worth the $1.7 mil and roster spot he would take up next year?

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7 hours ago, SF2 said:

It really boils down to this question:  Is he worth the $1.7 mil and roster spot he would take up next year?

 

How much dead money do they have to pay if they cut him?  If it's more than the price of a late-model Chevy Lumina with low mileage and AM-only radio, he's not going anywhere.

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45 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

How much dead money do they have to pay if they cut him?  If it's more than the price of a late-model Chevy Lumina with low mileage and AM-only radio, he's not going anywhere.

You don't pay or owe dead cap money, it was already paid as a signing bonus.  You are allowed to spread it out over the life of the contract so teams have more cap space the first year of the contract.

 

That money is gone.

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30 minutes ago, SF2 said:

You don't pay or owe dead cap money, it was already paid as a signing bonus.  You are allowed to spread it out over the life of the contract so teams have more cap space the first year of the contract.

 

That money is gone.

 

Yeah I guess I didn't word that right; what's the cap hit on Ogbusti after this season?

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28 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Yeah I guess I didn't word that right; what's the cap hit on Ogbusti after this season?

1.64mil if we cut him (already been paid) , 2.96 if we keep him and Mike Brown forks out another 1.76 mil in real money.

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13 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

How much dead money do they have to pay if they cut him?  If it's more than the price of a late-model Chevy Lumina with low mileage and AM-only radio, he's not going anywhere.

 

12 hours ago, SF2 said:

You don't pay or owe dead cap money, it was already paid as a signing bonus.  You are allowed to spread it out over the life of the contract so teams have more cap space the first year of the contract.

 

That money is gone.

It was already paid, but T-Dub was basically asking if there's any dead money against our cap next year if he's cut, which the answer is 100% yes. No, we won't have to give Og more money, but there is $2.369M that would count against our team salary cap without that player on the roster, which is typically a BIG time no-no in the Brown household.

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55 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

It was already paid, but T-Dub was basically asking if there's any dead money against our cap next year if he's cut, which the answer is 100% yes. No, we won't have to give Og more money, but there is $2.369M that would count against our team salary cap without that player on the roster, which is typically a BIG time no-no in the Brown household.

Dead cap is $1.68 mil. In other words, if we cut him, that would be how much less money we have for the salary cap in 2018.  Could have kept Marshall Newhouse for $1.5 a year. He sucks less than Cedric.

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19 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Dead cap is $1.68 mil. In other words, if we cut him, that would be how much less money we have for the salary cap in 2018.  Could have kept Marshall Newhouse for $1.5 a year. He sucks less than Cedric.

Yeah I think that's what T-Dub was trying to ask though, was just clarifying. You weren't wrong with what you said, we wouldn't have to pay him extra or anything if we cut him, but I don't think T-Dub intended for that to be the question even though that's kinda how it was worded. Salary cap can be confusing.

 

2018 dead cap on Ogbuehi is $1.68M according to Spotrac but $2.37M according to Overthecap. Hmmmmm either way, Mikey doesn't like paying for players not on the roster, and I can't see them flat out cutting him. He's likely going to be our backup OT next year if they draft a LT or happen to bust open Mike's piggy bank.

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14 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Yeah I think that's what T-Dub was trying to ask though, was just clarifying. You weren't wrong with what you said, we wouldn't have to pay him extra or anything if we cut him, but I don't think T-Dub intended for that to be the question even though that's kinda how it was worded. Salary cap can be confusing.

 

2018 dead cap on Ogbuehi is $1.68M according to Spotrac but $2.37M according to Overthecap. Hmmmmm either way, Mikey doesn't like paying for players not on the roster, and I can't see them flat out cutting him. He's likely going to be our backup OT next year if they draft a LT or happen to bust open Mike's piggy bank.

Again, if he is cut, Mike Brown owes him nothing.  The dead cap money is his ORIGINAL signing bonus spread out over the lifetime of the contract for Salary Cap purposes.  Cedric was already paid that money.

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7 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Again, if he is cut, Mike Brown owes him nothing.  The dead cap money is his ORIGINAL signing bonus spread out over the lifetime of the contract for Salary Cap purposes.  Cedric was already paid that money.

Exactly, I know that lol I've unfortunately learned far too much about the salary cap over the past 5-10 years from posting on boards like this.

 

I was clarifying T-Dub's question because I know what he was trying to ask, he was wanting to know how much dead cap would be against our team cap if we cut Ogbuehi this year, as Mike Brown doesn't like that. The Bengals really, really don't like having shelled out the cash for a guy while they're on their couch or playing for a different team. Even if the money was already technically paid years ago, the Bengals HATE dead money, our own beat writers that have the inside scoop have flat out admitted the Bengals FO does what they can to not have dead money against their cap.

 

edit - I also want to clarify my last statement there. I'm sure every team in the league does what they can to avoid dead cap money, but I meant that our beat writers have hinted that Mikey tries to avoid it to a fault at times. You're rarely ever going to see the Bengals cut a guy that's carrying more than a few hundred thousand of dead cap cash.

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5 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

Exactly, I know that lol I've unfortunately learned far too much about the salary cap over the past 5-10 years from posting on boards like this.

 

I was clarifying T-Dub's question because I know what he was trying to ask, he was wanting to know how much dead cap would be against our team cap if we cut Ogbuehi this year, as Mike Brown doesn't like that. The Bengals really, really don't like having shelled out the cash for a guy while they're on their couch or playing for a different team. Even if the money was already technically paid years ago, the Bengals HATE dead money, our own beat writers that have the inside scoop have flat out admitted the Bengals FO does what they can to not have dead money against their cap.

 

edit - I also want to clarify my last statement there. I'm sure every team in the league does what they can to avoid dead cap money, but I meant that our beat writers have hinted that Mikey tries to avoid it to a fault at times. You're rarely ever going to see the Bengals cut a guy that's carrying more than a few hundred thousand of dead cap cash.

I would think that saving actual money by not paying a very bad football player may be the way to go here.  I know most owners don't want to carry dead cap money but do we really want to use a roster spot next year for this guy?  Is there any hope he can be at least a backup?  He would still be on rookie contract which isn't very high but this guy really sucks.

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3 minutes ago, SF2 said:

I would think that saving actual money by not paying a very bad football player may be the way to go here.  I know most owners don't want to carry dead cap money but do we really want to use a roster spot next year for this guy?  Is any hope he can be at least a backup?  He would still be on rookie contract which isn't very high but this guy really sucks.

I think best case (realistic) scenario is that he's a backup until his rookie deal is up. I really can't see the team flat out cutting him, especially with Andre & Winston being a combined million years old, bad, and without contracts after 2017. Oogie Boogie is here to stay even if we make a move for a LT in free agency or the draft.

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There are kids playing Pop Warner, who put forth a better effort to block than he does.

I'm sure Paul Alexander thinks he is a nice kid and has, shall I say, "Potential", but he is a disgrace to this team.

I don't see how he can look at his teammates in the huddle or on the sidelines, after constantly letting his man take free shots at our QB and RBs.

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$1.5-2.5 mil is not that big of a hit, in NFL salary cap terms anyway.  I'm sure they've carried that or more many times for various reasons, and it's not like we're anywhere near going over (unless you're Hobson.)  Like SF2 pointed out, the actual money is already gone, so what's the problem other than admitting your buddy the AC couldn't pour piss out of a boot? 

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32 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

$1.5-2.5 mil is not that big of a hit, in NFL salary cap terms anyway.  I'm sure they've carried that or more many times for various reasons, and it's not like we're anywhere near going over (unless you're Hobson.)  Like SF2 pointed out, the actual money is already gone, so what's the problem other than admitting your buddy the AC couldn't pour piss out of a boot? 

 

29 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Dead money against the cap is meaningless when we don't come close to spending the full cap amount.

 

The money is already out of Mike Browns pocket.

Hey tell Mike Brown that.

 

It's well documented that he doesn't like cash counting against us without that player on the roster. I'm not saying I 100% agree with it, just trying to be realistic with how he operates. In the past 4 years the Bengals have been either the least (3 times) or 2nd least (1 time) in dead money against the cap.

 

Now, that's a good thing if you look at it like "hey, we must sign a lot of good contracts here!" (which is true some of the time), but a bad thing if you look at the whole picture and see that some players likely deserved to be moved on from in that timeframe to free up space for some others that we lost or others that we could have obtained.

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42 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

"Sunk-cost fallacy" describes a lot of things where this franchise is concerned. 

That the classic mindset of every Land Rover and Jaguar owner.  "But I spent so much on this thing, I can't get rid of it now."  "Ok then, that will be $800 to replace the wiper blades."

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