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fredtoast

Reality and our 2018 O-line

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Currently the Bengals don't have a current O-lineman under contract beyond 2019, and they only have 2 signed that long (Boling, Westerman). 

 

Technically the Bengals have an option to keep Ogbuehi for the '19 season at $9.3 million, but I don't see that happening.  So basically here are the 5 other O-linemen the Bengals have under contract for next season.....Ogbuehi, Fisher, Hopkins, T.J. Johnson, and Alex Redmond.

 

First question...CENTER....Do we re-sign Bodine?  I kind of think we will.  Johnson has been here 4 years.  If he was any better than Bodine he would have been playing already.  If Center was our only hole on the O-line then I think Bodine would be gone.  Contrary to a popular message board myth the Bengals do not stick with lame centers forever.  Ghiaciuc was only our opening day starter for two years, and we cut Cook after just one bad post-injury season..  But with so many other problems I think we re-sign Bodine.

 

GUARDS...Boling is a lock to be one of th starting five, and I am 90% sure it will be at Guard, but he did play OT in college so if he is one of our best 2 olinemen then anything is possible.  Same with Hopkins.  I assume he will start at Guard, but they could try him at Tackle.

 

TACKLES....First round pick (most likely in top 10) used on a LT.  Second round used on RT or other O-lineman.  We will also sign a free agent to compete as a starter.  Not a top tier guy, but something better than our usual bottom of the barrel deals.  At least a guy with some solid starting experience.

 

 

 

 

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I would retain Boling. I’d be interested in seeing what Fisher could do at RG. (Are we sure his heart condition hasn’t affected his play at RT?) I don’t want any of the others in starting roles. 

 

Sign a quality OG in free agency and draft 2 OTs and a C 

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If the Bengals are going to improve the offensive line, Bodine can't be in the equation. I was really hoping they would have added some guys last offseason. Some good options were available for a reasonable price like Joe Hawley and Stefen Wisniewski. I know you are speculating they will bring Bodine back BUT if you really want to change this group you gotta change them all except maybe Boling.  

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4 hours ago, BengalFanInTO said:

If the Bengals are going to improve the offensive line, Bodine can't be in the equation. I was really hoping they would have added some guys last offseason. Some good options were available for a reasonable price like Joe Hawley and Stefen Wisniewski. I know you are speculating they will bring Bodine back BUT if you really want to change this group you gotta change them all except maybe Boling.  

I just don't see being able to replace 4 guys on the line in one year. They have to keep some of these guys and Bodine is better than the other swill.

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Bodine is absolutely terrible. They need to start trying to fix the line now by playing Redmon, Westerman and Dielman. Johnson as well. Figure out what we have. It can't get worse. Also start looking at good offensive lines practice squads. If you can fix just 1 spot by the end of the year you are way better off. Titans and Eagles are 2 lines I would look at. Wins don't matter the rest of the year. Fix the line for 2018. 

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9 minutes ago, JC said:

Jim O. thinks Bodine is gone.

Hopefully.

 

He played a few good games last year and had an OK season overall so I had decent expectations for his contract year, but he's been awwwwwwwwwwfffffuullllllllllll this season. Like historically bad C play. Maybe it's because it's so fresh in my mind, but I don't recall ever being this baffled before when watching a center play football at the NFL level.

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This is interesting

 

Per @pff_cincinnati the Bengals' offensive line had a pass blocking efficiency of 91.0%. Dalton was pressured on 4/36 passing plays with 1 sack, 1 hit & 2 hurries. OT Andre Smith earned an 87.4 @PFF grade, ranking 1st in Week 10 among OTs.

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2 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said:

This is interesting

 

Per @pff_cincinnati the Bengals' offensive line had a pass blocking efficiency of 91.0%. Dalton was pressured on 4/36 passing plays with 1 sack, 1 hit & 2 hurries. OT Andre Smith earned an 87.4 @PFF grade, ranking 1st in Week 10 among OTs.

What you are starting to see is teams dropping back into coverage because they know we can't run the ball.  We only have 1 receiver who can actually get himself open and they simply double up on Green.  Tennesee's pass defense is pretty weak to boot.   I certainly thought this was a game we could win based on what I have seen out of the Titans this year.  They are mehhh at best.

 

I think we can beat Denver as well  but does it really matter?  We are soooo far away from having a legitimate playoff contender its laughable.  The AFC is garbage other than New England, Pittspuke and maybe Kansass City.  I think the Ravens will end up in the playoffs as well.  Team is getting healthier and their schedule is a joke.  They have a legitimate shot of going 6-1 down the stretch.

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LT - They've got to have an option at LT, if they can find one in FA then fine - sign him.  The chances that a LT of the quality the Bengals need makes it to FA is slim & the chances the Bengals Brown Trust OKs that kind of contract though are infinitesimal, so the reality is you probably need to take one in the first round - McGlinchey/Okorafor?(even if you have to deal down to a place where you feel comfortable taking them).  May not be ideal, but even in this down year, there have to be at least a two or three better options than Oblowme.

 

LG - Try to salvage at least one starting spot from holdovers - Boling, Johnson, Hopkins, Westerman, Redmon

 

C  - A 2nd-tier FA or a 2nd-4th round pick (my preference, unless there's FA too good to pass)

 

RG - If they some how find a decent FA LT option then I strongly would consider Quenton Nelson of Notre Dame (I know the Bengals don't historically value guards this highly, but he seems to be the best OL in the draft & they have to feel holes). 

 

RT - Another spot where they could go with a decent (but not top tier) FA.  Even if they do, I'd still like to see a 3rd pick spent on a young RT that might be able to help at RG as well if needed.

 

There are a lot of possible combinations.  Bottomline...I believe they have to fill at least four OLine spots from the outside.  I would like to see them spend on a starting FA to fill one spot (Bengals won't spent top-dollar so the very next step down), a journeyman OL who is capable of handling another starting spot and three OL draft picks in rounds 1-5 (two starters and a versatile 3rd capable of pushing for a starting spot and the versatility to back a couple of places).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jpoore said:

Last year at least there were some who were close to being 1sts

An now we have 3 starting LTs from that group. I am beginning to question the logic of many draftniks. 

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Posted this in another thread, but if there's not a 1st-worthy LT, if there's a QB the new staff really likes, how about taking them with the 1st rounder and dealing Dalton for an LT, then let the rook battle with McWebb for the starting job.  Not sure someone will deal an LT for AJ, but one option to consider.  They MUST acquire a starting LT in some manner.

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8 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

An now we have 3 starting LTs from that group. I am beginning to question the logic of many draftniks. 

 

No need to even look at draft rankings this early.  They always change a lot once the college season is over.

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6 hours ago, snarkster said:

Posted this in another thread, but if there's not a 1st-worthy LT, if there's a QB the new staff really likes, how about taking them with the 1st rounder and dealing Dalton for an LT, then let the rook battle with McWebb for the starting job.  Not sure someone will deal an LT for AJ, but one option to consider.  They MUST acquire a starting LT in some manner.

 

Dalton is not the problem, and a hole at QB is a lot harder to fill than a hole at LT.  That is why QBs are paid so much more than LTs.  So this would just make our situation worse.

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6 hours ago, snarkster said:

Posted this in another thread, but if there's not a 1st-worthy LT, if there's a QB the new staff really likes, how about taking them with the 1st rounder and dealing Dalton for an LT, then let the rook battle with McWebb for the starting job.  Not sure someone will deal an LT for AJ, but one option to consider.  They MUST acquire a starting LT in some manner.

 

I just don't think it's a realistic option even if the team did want to trade Andy for a tackle. Which of the other 31 teams has 2 starting caliber LTs (let's face it, no team is trading for a QB just to get rid of one of their best guys to block for him) and also needs a QB bad enough to trade for one but isn't drafting high enough to take one of the top prospects? I probably think Andy Dalton is better than a lot of other folks here, but let's be real, the dude is 30 years old and isn't a GREAT quarterback. Who is going to give up a decent to good LT for him? Any team with a good enough LT that we'd want that also happens to needs a QB that badly will just draft Jackson, Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, etc. before trading for a guy like Andy.

 

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We cant fix this line in one year unless either Fisher or Ced somehow learn to play NFL football.  You just cant fix an oline that fast without spending a ton in FA which we won't.  O line isn't a plug and play position regardless.  Takes some time to be good at simply knowing the plays and what to do faced with the defense in front of you.    This will take two years minium.

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13 minutes ago, SF2 said:

We cant fix this line in one year unless either Fisher or Ced somehow learn to play NFL football.  You just cant fix an oline that fast without spending a ton in FA which we won't.  O line isn't a plug and play position regardless.  Takes some time to be good at simply knowing the plays and what to do faced with the defense in front of you.    This will take two years minium.

Even with better coaching especially on the offensive side? 

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Depends on how you define “fix”. We have enough other talent that if they could get to average this team would be pretty good. 

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1 hour ago, SF2 said:

We cant fix this line in one year unless either Fisher or Ced somehow learn to play NFL football.  You just cant fix an oline that fast without spending a ton in FA which we won't.  O line isn't a plug and play position regardless.  Takes some time to be good at simply knowing the plays and what to do faced with the defense in front of you.    This will take two years minium.

I fully agree with not being able to fix the OL in a single offseason - as in bringing them up to a top-10 level unit.  I think they can (and must) bring in several options that can lift the OL up to at least one that can keep the QB from getting killed and open the occasional hole for a RB.  Not saying they will necessarily be long-term solutions.  A couple of them may even be back ups after future acquisitions.  For now though, this OLine is like a critical ER patient. 

 

The new staff will need to come in, Triage and then stablize.  Boling is the only starter I have much hope for - Fisher & Hopkins might be possible backups, but they have no one even resembling a starting LT, the Bodine experiment needs to be over and Sugar Tits/Winston?  Desperation fillers on even a bad unit.  Some people still hold out hope that Johnson, Westerman & Redmon might be answers, but they can't even break through competing against this mess (granted, part of that might be current coaching stupidity).

 

I believe that while they won't be world-beaters next year, much can be done to staunch the bleeding.  They need a major (by Bengal standards) FA investment in an OL starter (wonder if Bobby Williams is up to?) and they need to find a low-cost journeyman or two to come in and fill holes and compete.  I feel pretty good about most of the other units on the team (although a starting level safety would be nice).  There should be 3 or 4 comp picks (including a couple of premium 3rd/4th rounders) and there are a couple of possible trade options so we should be looking at 11 or 12 picks again.  I see no reason that they can't spend three or even four of those picks on the OL in addition to FA signings.

 

There is no viable LT on this team (not even a so-so imposter) and that is both unimaginable & inexcuseable.  That must be priority one (& probably 1A) for the new staff, followed closely by a quality starting Center and there needs to be new competition options at every OL spot.  If they aren't overseen/implemented by a new staff, everything else is moot.

 

BTW, NO Hue or existing staffers - fresh start!

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7 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

Dalton is not the problem, and a hole at QB is a lot harder to fill than a hole at LT.  That is why QBs are paid so much more than LTs.  So this would just make our situation worse.

Not saying he's the problem, but never been as enamored of him as many, so I'm not sure he's the answer either.  Not sure there are any LT's out there that anyone would sacrifice for him, but it's one of the options I'd consider.  If the new staff sees a QB in the draft they want to grow with and I can fill the LT canyon, I'd do it while McCarron is here to allow him to grow at his own pace without being thrown to the wolves.  I'm not sure there's a top-ten worthy LT out there, so I'm willing to look at all options (that's how desperate I am to see them fill LT).

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