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SF2 Hall Of Fame

|SF2|

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

Wow, our victory this weekend really does have you worked up in a lather doesn't it?

 

Instead of just losing your head and squirting all over yourself with my name in all caps why don't you try to address the original point of this discussion?

 

In 2003 Kitna was a top 10 QB (3rd in td passes, 7th in yardage, 10th in passer rating).  Due to his excellent play the Bengals were in the playoff hunt until the final week of the season.  The next year Carson Palmer started, and despite having an entire year to absorb the Bengals system he failed to finish in the top ten in any passing category.  If he had started as a rookie he would have most likely been even worse and there was no way the Bengals would have been in the playoff hunt.  So basically Marvin made a decision that won the Bengals more games and kept them in the playoff hunt, but fro some reason I am supposed to shit on him for this.

 

Kitna was a top 10 QB for the Bengals in '03 and led us on a surprise season where we were in contention for sa playoff spot until the final game.  Anyone who bitches and whines about that is just a crybaby who enjoys complaining more than winning.

I am happy about the victory.  I am the one who thought we would win 3 in a row.    Kitna sucked.   We still have a losing record BTW but you are fine with that because you are a homer.   Let me repeat, we have a LOSING record, not winning.  You understand how that works right?  Maybe not since you seem infatuated with a former QB who was 18-28 here as a starter, never led us to the playoffs and choked in his one chance to pull that feat off at home against a 4-11 team. 

 

Kitna choked almost as bad as the guy who committed 3 turnovers in the second half of a  home playoff game against San Diego but of course you have always blamed the defense for that loss.

 

I hope the Bengals pay you well. 

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fredtoast Hall Of Fame

fredtoast

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SF2 said:

I am happy about the victory.  I am the one who thought we would win 3 in a row.    Kitna sucked.   We still have a losing record BTW but you are fine with that because you are a homer.   Let me repeat, we have a LOSING record, not winning.  You understand how that works right?  Maybe not since you seem infatuated with a former QB who was 18-28 here as a starter, never led us to the playoffs and choked in his one chance to pull that feat off at home against a 4-11 team. 

 

Kitna choked almost as bad as the guy who committed 3 turnovers in the second half of a  home playoff game against San Diego but of course you have always blamed the defense for that loss.

 

I hope the Bengals pay you well. 

 

 

Again dancing all over the place but afraid to address the actual discussion.

 

In '03 Kitna played better than palmer would have and kept us in the p[layoff hunt until the final game.  That is much better than we would have done with Palmer starting.

 

Now go spin and squirt all you want about what what happened every other year, or what happened with other QBs, but all that deflection and all the red herrings in the world will not change the fact that you are wrong.  Marvin made the right decision to start Kitna in '03 instead of Palmer because Kitna played better and kept us in the playoff hunt until the final game. 

 

Personally I prefer to win as much as possible so I am in favor of playing the best players. Would we have been better than 8-8 in '04 if Palmer had started in '03?  We have no way of knowing. But if you really care about winning so much maybe you should complain about Marvin not starting Kitna in '04 also.  He started the last three games and went 2-1 after Palmer compiled a losing record (6-7).  So we might actually have made the playoffs in '04 if Kitna had started every game.

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SF2 Hall Of Fame

|SF2|

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

 

 

Again dancing all over the place but afraid to address the actual discussion.

 

In '03 Kitna played better than palmer would have and kept us in the p[layoff hunt until the final game.  That is much better than we would have done with Palmer starting.

 

Now go spin and squirt all you want about what what happened every other year, or what happened with other QBs, but all that deflection and all the red herrings in the world will not change the fact that you are wrong.  Marvin made the right decision to start Kitna in '03 instead of Palmer because Kitna played better and kept us in the playoff hunt until the final game. 

 

Personally I prefer to win as much as possible so I am in favor of playing the best players. Would we have been better than 8-8 in '04 if Palmer had started in '03?  We have no way of knowing. But if you really care about winning so much maybe you should complain about Marvin not starting Kitna in '04 also.  He started the last three games and went 2-1 after Palmer compiled a losing record (6-7).  So we might actually have made the playoffs in '04 if Kitna had started every game.

LOL, now you have a Delorean that goes back in time and you swapped out Palmer for Kitna and ran your above scenario.   You kill me.   By the way , we DIDN'T make the playoffs in 2003.  Didn't even have a winning season. 

 

You have NO idea how Palmer would have played and you certainly have no idea how Palmer would have played in 2004 after starting for a year.  Just imagine him in 2005 with 2 years under his belt?  Did you wait those extra two years or was your Delorean running out of Plutonium?

 

How is Jarrod Goff playing in his second year?  How is Carson Wentz playing in his second year?   We wasted a fucking year with Kitna starting the ENTIRE year. He was NEVER the long term answer at QB and EVERYONE besides you knew it.  Replacing him when the team was 1-4 after the bye was the OBVIOUS move.  So fucking what if we go 5-11 that year, the pieces were in place to make a real long term run.  You of  course, would rather have the 3 extra meaningless wins.  Almost making the playoffs is good enough for you.  Most of us realize that a QB MUST have real playing time to improve.  

 

You would have kept Jim Harbaugh (better QB than Kitna) as QB and never started Peyton Manning.  You would have kept Aikman on the bench for Steve Pueller.  Better chance to pick a few more meaningless wins.

 

Why didn't Marvin start Kitna in 2004?  That is good question. He obviously gave us a better chance that year than a guy who had never thrown a pass in a live NFL game, even I admit that.  Let me guess, you wished John Kitna has remained the starter so maybe we could finally get that wildcard berth?   The guy who was 18-28 as a starter here?  Should have just kept Carson on the bench.    

 

The future of the team was Carson Palmer, NOT John Kitna.   You are unable to look to the future which was what first year coach Marvin Lewis was hired to do, not try and squeak into the playoffs with a marginal QB while your franchise QB holds a clipboard. 

 

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fredtoast Hall Of Fame

fredtoast

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, SF2 said:

LOL, now you have a Delorean that goes back in time and you swapped out Palmer for Kitna and ran your above scenario.   You kill me.   By the way , we DIDN'T make the playoffs in 2003.  Didn't even have a winning season.....................                                                                                                                                                                                                                  So fucking what if we go 5-11 that year,       


 In '03 we were in the playoff hunt for the entire season.  I know you have no problem with 5-11 seasons, but I prefer to root for a playoff contender.  Maybe you need to raise your standards a little

15 hours ago, SF2 said:

 

 

How is Jarrod Goff playing in his second year?  How is Carson Wentz playing in his second year?   We wasted a fucking year with Kitna starting the ENTIRE year.

 

 

Neither the Rams nor the Eagles had a top 10 QB to play instead of Goff or Wentz. After 5 weeks of the '03 season when you claim Marvin should have made the change Kitna was 5th in the league in passing yards and 8th in tds.  Marvin made the correct decision to stick with Kitna.  Over the final 11 weeks of the season Kitna's 20 td passes were just one behind the league leader (Favre 21) and only 3 other QBs won more games than Kitna despite Kitna being sacked more than all but 4 other QBs in the league.

 

It is not as easy as you think to tell a locker room full of veterans that you are going to tank an entire season when you have aQB who could possibly lead them to the playoffs.  The NFL is not like baseball or basketball.  NFL players know that every game could be their last. 

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Hooky Hall Of Fame

Hooky

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Sign me up for Team SF  

They both have their own redeeming qualities:

 

Sf2 has posts filled with wit and sarcasm. At least I think it is.

 

Fredtoast is good with the stats. So good, in fact, that he often uses the same stats to support two opposing arguments.

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High School Harry Hall Of Fame

|High School Harry|

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Hooky said:

They both have their own redeeming qualities:

 

Sf2 has posts filled with wit and sarcasm. At least I think it is.

 

Fredtoast is good with the stats. So good, in fact, that he often uses the same stats to support two opposing arguments.

I agree and am not down on Fred.  A guy once told me the thing about statistics is that they can be used to prove anything you want and, as you said, support both sides of a position at the same time.  For example, and I think I said this somewhere before, Kitna had decent stats however if he had a low interception percentage, it was when he threw it.  Like late in the game driving for a go ahead score or when we were ahead leading to a score by the opposing team.  A high completion percentage could be a lot of screens or short stuff that didn't go for a lot of yardage but look good in the box scores.  I usually just skim the stat stuff, find it boring and not really telling the story.  I do think he trolls trying to bait people into useless, popcorn inducing pointless discussions.  Shit gets old.

 

I highly favor cynicism, droll humor etc. to "Just the facts, m'am".  Criticizing  a player or aspect does not mean you want the team to lose, but to improve and change for the better.  

 

Who Dey and Retire Marvin.

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