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What the heck is the real story about Ross?


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24 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

I remember Peter Warrick coming back only a few weeks after a knee scope to try to help the Bengals make the playoffs.  He was never the same.  I still feel like he screwed his career to try to help his team.  It was a bad move, but I'lll always love him for it.  One of my favorite players.

yep

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The last time he was in he came limping off the field did not see him since, I would think something to do with the foot or toe, and also knee.  I think his knee is not well enough and it is causing other issues with the foot area, but that is just my opinion.  I guess like they say a Ford is good to look at but Lamborghini's are practical for everyday driving. 

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On 11/28/2017 at 1:59 PM, SF2 said:

In defense of the Bengals, they spent their first 2 picks in 2105 on tackles.  For both of them to be substandard is almost like bad Voodoo.  Cedric has actually played better of late but still not first round pick good.

 

Next Monday will be a big game for him to prove to many he doesn't totally suck.  

 

Eifert should be in the prime of his career.  Hard to predict injuries.

Not for Eifert, you could set your watch.

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On 11/29/2017 at 6:51 AM, SF2 said:

It was one time that was obvious in a game.  Lord knows how many times it actually happens in games but more importantly practice.  Keep in mind, we are talking about a limited number of plays he needs to know. The most likely issue is he doesn't know what to do if Andy calls an audible.  The probable issue on that play  was that Andy saw no deep safety coverage so he audible a post to Ross who didnt know what to do.

I find this hard to believe. He was injured the entire preseason and offseason. And tc. If that's me I've got my head buried in the playbook. Learning every audible.

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3 hours ago, Jpoore said:

I find this hard to believe. He was injured the entire preseason and offseason. And tc. If that's me I've got my head buried in the playbook. Learning every audible.

There is an old saying in the military that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.  A vast conspiracy by a coach on the last year of his contract and his assistants to purposely call out Ross and not give him snaps because he didn't want him is not a simple nor likely explanation.   

 

The player not being mentally ready to play  (he was a healthy scratch) is a pretty simple explanation.  

 

Warrick was a 2X All-American at a school that ran a pro offense.  Washington plays a spread with the QB always in the shotgun for the most part.   OF COURSE Warrick  was the better prospect.

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3 hours ago, Jpoore said:

No he wasn't. At all.

I agree at least in part because I have no idea what Ross' potential is.  Right now, I am skeptical until something changes my mind.

 

I thought Warrick was more print than production.  Excellent receiver on one of the best college football teams in history.  But went on to prove the pros are not like college.  How many seasons did it take to break himself of the habit of running back a few yards after catching the ball to get a better view of the field, or whatever.  Pro defensive players hammered him for a loss after catch more often than not.  He was also slow for a pro receiver.  I didn't care for the pick when it happened or the product on the field most of the time.

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21 hours ago, SF2 said:

There is an old saying in the military that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.  A vast conspiracy by a coach on the last year of his contract and his assistants to purposely call out Ross and not give him snaps because he didn't want him is not a simple nor likely explanation.   

 

The player not being mentally ready to play  (he was a healthy scratch) is a pretty simple explanation.  

 

Warrick was a 2X All-American at a school that ran a pro offense.  Washington plays a spread with the QB always in the shotgun for the most part.   OF COURSE Warrick  was the better prospect.

News flash most nfl offenses are most spread than they've ever been. Ross could run every route in the route tree extremely well. And furthermore u don't see the coach calling out Erickson for dropping like 4-5 punts this year.

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2 hours ago, Jpoore said:

News flash most nfl offenses are most spread than they've ever been. Ross could run every route in the route tree extremely well. And furthermore u don't see the coach calling out Erickson for dropping like 4-5 punts this year.

Dropping a punt and KNOWING a few plays are not the same thing and last game, Adam Jones replaced Erickson when it mattered.

 

Ross has already proven he can't run a simple route very well or properly.  If there was a conspiracy, somebody on the team would have leaked it by now.

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1 hour ago, SF2 said:

Ross has already proven he can't run a simple route very well or properly. 

 

Maybe while we're benching Ross we should consider benching whoever made him the 9th overall pick.   If your kid trades their lunch for a fidget spinner you don't punish the spinner.

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20 hours ago, SF2 said:

Dropping a punt and KNOWING a few plays are not the same thing and last game, Adam Jones replaced Erickson when it mattered.

 

Ross has already proven he can't run a simple route very well or properly.  If there was a conspiracy, somebody on the team would have leaked it by now.

So because he messed up on one play u take him out? A lot of Dalton's interceptions his rookie year was because aj ran a wrong route. Lewis didn't call him out. And u can easily tell him to go out there and just run a go route a couple times a game. That's all core does and sorry but cores "value" on special teams is next to nothing.

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3 hours ago, Jpoore said:

So because he messed up on one play u take him out?

No.  The coaches make their decisions base on hundreds of reps they have seen in practice. 

 

Apparently that "one play" just confirmed what they had been seeing in practice.

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22 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

Maybe while we're benching Ross we should consider benching whoever made him the 9th overall pick.   If your kid trades their lunch for a fidget spinner you don't punish the spinner.

 

And you don't judge a draft pick after half of a rookie season.

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On 12/2/2017 at 9:13 AM, High School Harry said:

I agree at least in part because I have no idea what Ross' potential is.

We're talking about them as "prospects".

John Ross may well go on to have a better career than Warrick did. Warrick played on an inept Bengals team and had his career cut short. But, as a prospect? Peter Warrick was a front runner for the Heisman. As a WR.

Warrick's running mate at FSU was Laverneus Coles... Coles didn't go until the third round and had a much better career that Warrick. But he was not a better PROSPECT. That's why he got picked 100 guys later.

Saying that John Ross is a better prospect that Peter Warrick is just plain false. 

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23 hours ago, fredtoast said:

No.  The coaches make their decisions base on hundreds of reps they have seen in practice. 

 

Apparently that "one play" just confirmed what they had been seeing in practice.

I honestly believe there is only 1 coaching staff in the NFL that doesn't at least put a package of plays in place for a guy like Ross, even if it means he is on the field for less than 10 plays.  If they haven't got him up to speed enough to do that, then they should be fired for being unable to develop talent alone.  Fuck Marvin and his entire staff.

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Just now, rcarpenter62 said:

I honestly believe there is only 1 coaching staff in the NFL that doesn't at least put a package of plays in place for a guy like Ross, even if it means he is on the field for less than 10 plays.  If they haven't got him up to speed enough to do that, then they should be fired for being unable to develop talent alone.  Fuck Marvin and his entire staff.

 

I hate defending this coaching staff, but maybe John Ross just really isn't a good NFL WR at this point? Maybe he needs more time, maybe he's just not good in general. All I know is that I wasn't impressed with him during draft time and I'm surely not any more impressed with him now.

 

Everyone wants to assume that Marvin is a moron when it could very easily be John Ross not being able to learn the playbook. For your assumed rebuttal of "yeah, but they don't need a full playbook when he's out there for a couple snaps!" 1. Didn't Ross fuck up a simple 9 route already this season? 2. What if Andy needs to audible? Can't have guys out there that don't know the playbook and can't run a 9 in the NFL. Just can't.

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30 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

I hate defending this coaching staff, but maybe John Ross just really isn't a good NFL WR at this point? Maybe he needs more time, maybe he's just not good in general. All I know is that I wasn't impressed with him during draft time and I'm surely not any more impressed with him now.

 

Everyone wants to assume that Marvin is a moron when it could very easily be John Ross not being able to learn the playbook. For your assumed rebuttal of "yeah, but they don't need a full playbook when he's out there for a couple snaps!" 1. Didn't Ross fuck up a simple 9 route already this season? 2. What if Andy needs to audible? Can't have guys out there that don't know the playbook and can't run a 9 in the NFL. Just can't.

Man all I'm saying is this... If you cannot prepare him enough for a set of plays, then you are incompetent as a coaching staff.  He certainly isn't the dumbest WR they have ever coached, I'm not buying it.  It all boils down to the same stubborn bullshit that we see from Marvin all the time.  I repeat... Fuck Marvin and his entire staff.

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Just now, rcarpenter62 said:

Man all I'm saying is this... If you cannot prepare him enough for a set of plays, then you are incompetent as a coaching staff.  He certainly isn't the dumbest WR they have ever coached, I'm not buying it.  It all boils down to the same stubborn bullshit that we see from Marvin all the time.  I repeat... Fuck Marvin and his entire staff.

Again, hate defending Marvin so much, but what stubborn bullshit?

 

The myth that Marvin doesn't play rookies has been heavily debunked. People run with it because they want as much ammo to hate Marv as possible. The dude has plenty of reasons to bitch about him, so bitch about the legitimate ones. Marvin plays rookies when they're ready to go. He plays young players when they're good. Vets tend to start for us just like they do for every other NFL team. I don't know what the issue is here. Malone played over 50% of the O snaps last night and he's from the same draft class as Ross.

 

Maaybbbee, just maybe, Ross can't learn the playbook and/or isn't a good football player? I don't know for sure, but all the signs are pointing toward that being a more reasonable conclusion than "Marv sucks because I said so therefore Ross should be playing".

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2 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Again, hate defending Marvin so much, but what stubborn bullshit?

 

The myth that Marvin doesn't play rookies has been heavily debunked. People run with it because they want as much ammo to hate Marv as possible. The dude has plenty of reasons to bitch about him, so bitch about the legitimate ones. Marvin plays rookies when they're ready to go. He plays young players when they're good. Vets tend to start for us just like they do for every other NFL team. I don't know what the issue is here. Malone played over 50% of the O snaps last night and he's from the same draft class as Ross.

 

Maaybbbee, just maybe, Ross can't learn the playbook and/or isn't a good football player? I don't know for sure, but all the signs are pointing toward that being a more reasonable conclusion than "Marv sucks because I said so therefore Ross should be playing".

The 2 quickest things I can think of about him being stubborn...

 

WJ III not playing every down on D.

Starting J. Hill all season to begin every game and every 2nd half.

 

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5 minutes ago, rcarpenter62 said:

The 2 quickest things I can think of about him being stubborn...

 

WJ III not playing every down on D.

Starting J. Hill all season to begin every game and every 2nd half.

 

I like Jackson seeing the field but I also don't think it's the worst thing to limit his snaps when the other guys are healthy. Dre isn't nearly as bad as people say he is, Dennard has been decent to good and we need to see what we have in him this year, and Adam Jones has been playing some good football for his age. I think WJIII could use more snaps but then we see something happen like the play where he just stopped and let Bell score a TD.....that's not good. That was pretty much 100% his fault and that's a huge mental error that can't happen.

 

Agree on Hill, he just doesn't fit with our current scheme and would be better suited elsewhere. I think everyone realizes that we've seen the last of him in Cincinnati though, Mixon + Gio is the future.

 

I'm not sure that Hill playing a few snaps early on and Jackson playing 50% of our snaps plus some ST means that John Ross not playing = Marvin sucks though. Mixon looked a bit lost with the blitz pickup early so it made sense to keep the better blocking RBs out there, not to mention that Mixon's YPC wasn't anything to brag about early in the season anyway. Our line was run blocking so poorly that I'm not sure it mattered which RB we put out there.

 

We're all just taking educated guesses here but I'm really leaning toward Ross not being ready to see the field being the most logical of the options we have to go with. You can roll with "Marvin sucks" if ya want, I just don't think I'll take that stance on this specific topic.

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14 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

I like Jackson seeing the field but I also don't think it's the worst thing to limit his snaps when the other guys are healthy. Dre isn't nearly as bad as people say he is, Dennard has been decent to good and we need to see what we have in him this year, and Adam Jones has been playing some good football for his age. I think WJIII could use more snaps but then we see something happen like the play where he just stopped and let Bell score a TD.....that's not good. That was pretty much 100% his fault and that's a huge mental error that can't happen.

 

Agree on Hill, he just doesn't fit with our current scheme and would be better suited elsewhere. I think everyone realizes that we've seen the last of him in Cincinnati though, Mixon + Gio is the future.

 

I'm not sure that Hill playing a few snaps early on and Jackson playing 50% of our snaps plus some ST means that John Ross not playing = Marvin sucks though. Mixon looked a bit lost with the blitz pickup early so it made sense to keep the better blocking RBs out there, not to mention that Mixon's YPC wasn't anything to brag about early in the season anyway. Our line was run blocking so poorly that I'm not sure it mattered which RB we put out there.

 

We're all just taking educated guesses here but I'm really leaning toward Ross not being ready to see the field being the most logical of the options we have to go with. You can roll with "Marvin sucks" if ya want, I just don't think I'll take that stance on this specific topic.

They picked on Kirkpatrick all night. He was abysmal. 

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5 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said:

They picked on Kirkpatrick all night. He was abysmal. 

In general (not last night) he's a good CB. Lots of penalties, but some are BS too.

 

People act like CBs can't get beat. Who do you guys think A.J. Green, Julio Jones, OBJ, and all the other elite WRs in the league are getting all of these yards and TDs on? Generally some pretty damn good CBs throughout the year.

 

Corners are going to give up yards and points sometimes. Shit happens. Some people are way too harsh on these guys without looking at them fairly compared to others around the league.

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