What the heck is the real story about Ross?

[Madieu Superstar]

6 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

In general (not last night) he's a good CB. Lots of penalties, but some are BS too.

 

People act like CBs can't get beat. Who do you guys think A.J. Green, Julio Jones, OBJ, and all the other elite WRs in the league are getting all of these yards and TDs on? Generally some pretty damn good CBs throughout the year.

 

Corners are going to give up yards and points sometimes. Shit happens. Some people are way too harsh on these guys without looking at them fairly compared to others around the league.

He's the 12th highest paid cornerback in the league this season. I just don't think he's the 12th best CB in the league and I never wanted him to get a contract extension. But you end up paying guys like him when Dennard sits for 3 seasons and you elect to activate Cedric Peerman off of IR instead of your 1st round rookie. Bad organization. 

[omgdrdoom]

2 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said:

He's the 12th highest paid cornerback in the league this season. I just don't think he's the 12th best CB in the league and I never wanted him to get a contract extension. But you end up paying guys like him when Dennard sits for 3 seasons and you elect to activate Cedric Peerman off of IR instead of your 1st round rookie. Bad organization. 

Right I mean he's probably not the 12th best CB this year so I get the frustration there. It was smart to extend him at the time if only because Adam Jones is nearly AARP eligibility and Dennard hadn't played many meaningful snaps at the time to get an idea of what we had in him. Was Jackson ready last year? I really don't remember if he was healthy enough to play if we activated him.

 

It can be quite the shitty organization though, I'll give ya that. Mike Brown is a turd.

[T-Dub]

8 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said:

He's the 12th highest paid cornerback in the league this season. 

 

And the most penalized defensive player.  That's terrible.  It's not like he's some hard-hitting corner that's running afoul of the NFL "defenseless receiver" stuff, either.  He's getting beat and grabbing onto guys in desperation.

[Madieu Superstar]

7 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Right I mean he's probably not the 12th best CB this year so I get the frustration there. It was smart to extend him at the time if only because Adam Jones is nearly AARP eligibility and Dennard hadn't played many meaningful snaps at the time to get an idea of what we had in him. Was Jackson ready last year? I really don't remember if he was healthy enough to play if we activated him.

 

It can be quite the shitty organization though, I'll give ya that. Mike Brown is a turd.

I think that's the point though. The team sucked last year. I actually think they were worse last year than they are this year. So why during that season when you know Kirkpatrick is going to be a free agent are you not giving Dennard extra snaps in order to evaluate?

 

According to this article, both Peerman and Jackson were cleared:

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2016/11/03/cincinnati-bengals-william-jackson-iii-cedric-peerman-injured-reserve-return/93249838/

 

So we kept a special teams player in a lost season over a 1st round CB, when you're current starter is going to be a free agent. 

 

I'm not saying that Kirkpatrick can't play in the league, but I would rather have resources spent in other places (or on a better CB). 

And I'm so tired of seeing him covering Brown. Why can we not have WJIII shadow Brown the whole night?

He's yet to give up a catch to him for God's sake!

 

 

[Jamie_B]

1 hour ago, omgdrdoom said:

In general (not last night) he's a good CB. Lots of penalties, but some are BS too.

 

People act like CBs can't get beat. Who do you guys think A.J. Green, Julio Jones, OBJ, and all the other elite WRs in the league are getting all of these yards and TDs on? Generally some pretty damn good CBs throughout the year.

 

Corners are going to give up yards and points sometimes. Shit happens. Some people are way too harsh on these guys without looking at them fairly compared to others around the league.

I think Dre makes a good to great #2 CB, the problem is we need a guy to shut down the other side. Jackson imo can be that guy but it's basically his rookie year since he didn't play last year. In time I think our CBs can be good. imo we still need a DT to replace Peko and better linebacking core outside of Vontaze. Would also like to see some better Safties but contract wise that's not gonna happen, so maybe getting a 3rd guy that can take some snaps away would be nice.

 

Then you have the O....

[LostInDaJungle]

2 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

In general (not last night) he's a good CB. Lots of penalties

He's the most penalized player in the league since 2015. Even with the bad calls, that's an outlier.

[T-Dub]

33 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

He's the most penalized player in the league since 2015. Even with the bad calls, that's an outlier.

 

That's one word for it.  Inexcusable is another.  "Stupid as fuck" is 3 words, and "this is what happens when Pacman Jones is your idea of locker room leadership" is probably too many.

[omgdrdoom]

1 hour ago, LostInDaJungle said:

He's the most penalized player in the league since 2015. Even with the bad calls, that's an outlier.

 

28 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

That's one word for it.  Inexcusable is another.  "Stupid as fuck" is 3 words, and "this is what happens when Pacman Jones is your idea of locker room leadership" is probably too many.

 

Last year the following had more flags thrown on them: Xavier Rhodes, Josh Norman, David DeCastro, Jason Peters, Patrick Peterson, Jadaveon Clowney, Trai Turner, Jalen Ramsey, Aaron Donald, AJ Bouye, Michael Bennett, and dozens of other players

 

2017: Von Miller, Rob Gronkowski, Philip Rivers, Cam Robinson, William Jackson III, Michael Bennett, Richard Sherman, and a lot more guys. You get where I'm going with this, right?

 

2015: Brandon Browner - that's it.

 

 

You guys are falling into the media narratives that you claim to hate. Do you know why they say "Dre is the most flagged in the past THREE years!!!!". Because if you only go back 2 years you'd realize he isn't flagged that much compared to some of the good, great, and elite players around the NFL. C'mon, man. You dudes are both better than this. Dre was flagged a metric fuck ton in 2015 and rightfully so, he was finally seeing the field and adjusting to being a full time CB and he had the natural learning curve. He made a lot of mistakes for sure. He's also fucked up in 2016-2017 but not nearly as much as everyone is making it seem. Don't fall into the narratives. They pick 3 years to look at for a reason.

 

EDIT - I'm not trying to say Dre is never flagged or whatever, just pointing out that the whole "most penalized in 3 years!" bullshit is worded that way specifically to poo-poo on Dre. It doesn't look quite as bad if you go season by season and see that he's cleaned it up, at least a little bit. He still needs to work on some things and not molesting the WR after he's beat is one of them. Try to make a play on the ball more often and less on the WR. He's heading for a lot of flags thrown on him this season too but he was damn good last year statistically and also had less flags than a lot of the elite corners.

[turningpoint]

My biggest issue with Dre was he just seems like a half step behind with his arms. If he can get his damn hands up a millisecond quicker, he probably deflects 3-5 more passes and that would have easily been enough to change the outcome of the game. WJ3 seems to have it figured out in less then 1 year in the league.

[BengalFanInTO]

He was a joke last night. An absolute joke.

 

The bottom line is that Kirkpatrick is average in coverage, awful on run defense and is penalized far too often (15 flags since the start of 2016 and 120 yards this season-the most in the NFL). He's not worth the money he's paid. He has no business being a #1 CB. To add insult to injury, his on field antics of chest pounding and running his mouth after making a tackle after the 1st down has been obtained on a third and long is nauseating.

[omgdrdoom]

3 minutes ago, turningpoint said:

My biggest issue with Dre was he just seems like a half step behind with his arms. If he can get his damn hands up a millisecond quicker, he probably deflects 3-5 more passes and that would have easily been enough to change the outcome of the game. WJ3 seems to have it figured out in less then 1 year in the league.

WJIII has 1 more penalty than Dre but in like half of the snaps. Dre is also on the WR1 more often than Jackson. Just pointing that out, pretty much all of our CBs need to work on being penalized less frequently.

 

I think the issue a lot of people have with Dre is that at least a couple of his DPI from this year have been deep passes which really hurts.

[omgdrdoom]

1 minute ago, BengalFanInTO said:

He was a joke last night. An absolute joke.

 

The bottom line is that Kirkpatrick is average in coverage, awful on run defense and is penalized far too often (15 flags since the start of 2016 and 120 yards this season-the most in the NFL). He's not worth the money he's paid. He has no business being a #1 CB. To add insult to injury, his on field antics of chest pounding and running his mouth after making a tackle after the 1st down has been obtained on a third and long is nauseating.

Average in coverage compared to who? Other CB1s or are you talking CBs in general? I think it's laughable if you're speaking of all corners in the league but in 2017 he's probably average @CB1 at best, probably a little lower honestly and I'm a fan of his. I don't think anyone has confused Dre with a good run stopper this season, so we agree there.

 

Dre would be an excellent CB2 if Jackson can become that shut down CB1 by 2018 that we're all hoping he becomes. We shall see I guess. Dre was really good in 2016 so it sucks to see so many people writing him off after a few bad weeks.

[T-Dub]

16 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Average in coverage compared to who? Other CB1s or are you talking CBs in general? I think it's laughable if you're speaking of all corners in the league but in 2017 he's probably average @CB1 at best, probably a little lower honestly and I'm a fan of his. I don't think anyone has confused Dre with a good run stopper this season, so we agree there.

 

Dre would be an excellent CB2 if Jackson can become that shut down CB1 by 2018 that we're all hoping he becomes. We shall see I guess. Dre was really good in 2016 so it sucks to see so many people writing him off after a few bad weeks.

 

It's not a few bad weeks AFAIC.  Never been a fan.  Struck me as a "me first" guy from day one & I don't like his attitude.  Too many bonehead plays & penalties. Needs to get off Twitter & get his head in the game.

 

He's at best a tick above replacement level.  Should've given that money to Whitworth.

[BengalFanInTO]

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

It's not a few bad weeks AFAIC.  Never been a fan.  Struck me as a "me first" guy from day one & I don't like his attitude.  Too many bonehead plays & penalties. Needs to get off Twitter & get his head in the game.

 

He's at best a tick above replacement level.  Should've given that money to Whitworth.

Agreed. The guy got beat like he was rented last night. Throw in his two pass interference penalties and getting run over like a bitch by Bell numerous times and it was another stellar Dre Kirkpatrick performance. And let's not forget his fall down whiff on the screen pass that was so painful and laughable to watch at the same time. The kid is gah-bage. He's lucky if he's a mid-level #2 CB. His apologists need to stop.

[T-Dub]

3 minutes ago, BengalFanInTO said:

Agreed. The guy got beat like he was rented last night. Throw in his two pass interference penalties and getting run over like a bitch by Bell numerous times and it was another stellar Dre Kirkpatrick performance. And let's not forget his fall down whiff on the screen pass that was so painful and laughable to watch at the same time. The kid is gah-bage. He's lucky if he's a mid-level #2 CB. His apologists need to stop.

 

Yeah, I forgot to mention soft.  Fuckin' 10-ply, buddy.  Wouldn't bust a grape in a foodfight.

[snarkster]

He's small, injury-prone and evidently quite slow picking up the system.  He's a bust.  End of story.

[Madieu Superstar]

4 minutes ago, snarkster said:

He's small, injury-prone and evidently quite slow picking up the system.  He's a bust.  End of story.

Possibly all true. I’ll wait for another coaching staff though before I make assumptions. Personally, I think this coaching staff is a lot more 2016 Rams than 2017 Rams. They don’t have a clue how to use the players that they have. 

[UncleEarl]

Man coverage on Antonio Brown is suicide if you don’t get pressure on the rapist.   There is a reason they gush over WJIII when he can cover Brown 1 on 1.  Few can do it.  

 

Kirkptrick’s penalty numbers are an issue. He needs to tighten that up or see a little less PT. 

[T-Dub]

8 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

 

 

Kirkptrick’s penalty numbers are an issue. He needs to tighten that up or see a little less PT. 

 

 

I think he should get more PT, personally.  For some other team.  One like, say, Dallas, where referring to yourself in the 3rd person and wearing your own jersey to nightclubs is normal & accepted behavior.

[Inigo Montoya]

LOL John Ross placed on injured reserve with a shoulder injury.

[|SF2|]

1 minute ago, Inigo Montoya said:

LOL John Ross placed on injured reserve with a shoulder injury.

Probably hurt it playing FIFA 2018 or NBA 2K18

[whodey365]

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/12/06/cincinnati-bengals-place-first-round-pick-john-ross-injured-reserve/928595001/

 

Yup..

[T-Dub]

38 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

LOL John Ross placed on injured reserve with a shoulder injury.

 

 

NOW they put him on IR?

[Inigo Montoya]

Jim Owczarski is reporting Ross will have surgery on his shoulder.  No word if it's the same shoulder he previously injured.  Pretty hilarious he was placed on IR after being a healthy scratch several times.  Or maybe they hid the injury.  Who the fuck knows. 

 

Bottom line, his entire rookie season was a waste and it's hard to be optimistic going forward.  He has already had multiple injuries and the team is likely to change coaching staffs.  I don't see much reason to believe he will stay healthy or be able to adjust to another new play book.  The Bengals are looking bad for botching a top 10 pick for an oft injured player, IMO.

[UncleEarl]

Wonder if this is Hill x2.  Maybe Ross needs some additional surgery, figured out he wasn't going to play anyway, so he just shut it down and had the surgery.  I doubt the Bengals care.