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How often do Bengals lose a lead.


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There is a lot of criticism of Marvin Lewis costing us games with his conservative play calling when we have the lead.  I have always argued that Marvin is not really that much more conservative with a lead than most other NFL coaches.  In fact whenever some makes that claim I ask them for an example.  So far no one has been able to give me one.  If anyone wants to post one in this thread I'd be glad to see it.

 

I know some of you hate facts, but here are the numbers.

 

Since 2011 only 6 teams in the league have been better at protecting a lead than the Bengals.  We have only lost 25 games in which we have held a lead.  The only teams with fewer losses in games where they held a lead are the Patriots (15), Stealers (19), Packers  (19), Broncos (20), Seahawks (23), and Cardinals (24).  The winning percentage numbers are exactly the same.  Bengals have a .711% in games where they have held a lead which also ranks 7th in the league.

 

If you look at the entire Marvin Lewis era we still rank in the top half of the league (14th) in both number of wins when we have held a lead (66) and winning percentage (.648).

 

These numbers do not fully answer the question about Marvin being too conservative because I have seen many games where the Bengals blew a lead and it had nothing to do with being too conservative.

 

BTW please try too keep this thread on topic.  I know some of you are queuing up your cut-and-past answer to everything Marvin related (Only stat that matters is 0-7!!!), but some people actually care about nuance and discussing specific isssues.  So lets keep this discussion to cases where you claim that conservative play calling has cost the Bengals a game where they held the lead.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, fluhartz said:

IDK how often..

 

but I know I never feel safe when they have one.. in fact....

Statistics prove that they lose every game they don't win.

Not counting ties. Those they both win and lose.

Or lose and win.

 

I'm glad I could clear that up.  Statistically.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, fluhartz said:

IDK how often..

 

but I know I never feel safe when they have one.. in fact....

 

This brings up another good point.  EVERY team in the NFL blows leads.  Even the almighty Patriots have done it 15 times in the last 6 1/2 seasons.  Jacksonville has done it FORTY-EIGHT times over the same period.  Nineteen teams have done it at least 30 times.

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9 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

 

This brings up another good point.  EVERY team in the NFL blows leads.  Even the almighty Patriots have done it 15 times in the last 6 1/2 seasons.  Jacksonville has done it FORTY-EIGHT times over the same period.  Nineteen teams have done it at least 30 times.

How do you even get all these stats like this? Those two teams you mentioned blowing leads, does that also mean they went on to lose all of them? Unless you have a photographic memory or maybe going through every game recap or rewatch every game I don't know how you prove anything. Did they blow them by being too conservative or was it bc of turnovers, losing key players to injury , etc.

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No matter what anyone posts you're just going to post an irrelevant stat that doesn't actually prove the point you're attempting to make. As it's already been pointed out, these stats don't prove anything about being "conservative" because there's no stat for that. Games are won and lost for many different reasons, there is no statistic that will prove anyone right or wrong regardless of your inability to comprehend that.

 

So basically:

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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2 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Statistics prove that they lose every game they don't win.

Not counting ties. Those they both win and lose.

Or lose and win.

 

I'm glad I could clear that up.  Statistically.

 

 

 

 

The game not yet played is neither won nor lost, but waiting to become*

 

Ask yourself:  What is the sound of one hand fapping?

 

 

 

*probably lost tho LOL

 

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2 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

No matter what anyone posts you're just going to post an irrelevant stat that doesn't actually prove the point you're attempting to make. As it's already been pointed out, these stats don't prove anything about being "conservative" because there's no stat for that. Games are won and lost for many different reasons, there is no statistic that will prove anyone right or wrong regardless of your inability to comprehend that.

 

So basically:

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

31 minutes ago, A Rock said:

Blah, blah, blah. In fact, over the past 7 and 15/49 seasons, blah, blah, blah.

I agree that stats don't prove everything.  That is exactly why I always ask for examples of the Bengals losing a game due to Marvin being too conservative with a lead.  You all claim it happens.  Then just tell me when.

 

"Stats are for trolls.  Facts are for trolls.  Specific evidence is for trolls.  All it takes to make something true is for someone to say it on a message board.  Anyone who does not accept as fact every claim on a message board is a troll.  Anyone who disagrees with me is a troll."

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2 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

388EC055-B0BB-407D-8BA7-518056751416.jpeg

 

I don't think you people even know the definition of the term "troll".

 

You can't just claim that every person who proves you wrong is a troll. 

 

What have I done in this thread that would fit the definition of "trolling"?  You are the one who has refused to address the subject of the thread and resorted to nothing but name calling.  So look up the definition of troll and see which one of us fits that description.

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5 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

I don't think you people even know the definition of the term "troll".

 

You can't just claim that every person who proves you wrong is a troll. 

 

What have I done in this thread that would fit the definition of "trolling"?  You are the one who has refused to address the subject of the thread and resorted to nothing but name calling.  So look up the definition of troll and see which one of us fits that description.

 

On this board, "Troll" generally means you have "critical thinking skills"!

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Not empirical, but I have a general feeling that when we're up a good amount (say two scores) at the half then we play the next half in "grind the clock" mode. Which we continue to use long after the other team has come back and taken the lead.

 

I think a better indicator would be how many games we were up a couple of scores early and then put our foot on their throat to put them away. Rather than playing nickel D and runs up the gut and hoping the clock sped up.

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1 minute ago, VonBlade said:

Not empirical, but I have a general feeling that when we're up a good amount (say two scores) at the half then we play the next half in "grind the clock" mode. Which we continue to use long after the other team has come back and taken the lead.

 

I think a better indicator would be how many games we were up a couple of scores early and then put our foot on their throat to put them away. Rather than playing nickel D and runs up the gut and hoping the clock sped up.

I think that's generally what people are referring to with "playing Marvin ball" type of comments. I don't mind if we go into conservative mode with a nice lead as a lot of NFL teams do that on a weekly basis. However, we don't adjust until it's too late sometimes and it's very frustrating. We aren't the only NFL team that does this kind of stuff but it doesn't mean us, the fans, aren't allowed to vent our frustrations when our coaching staff does it.

 

It's not only the offense, it's not only the defense, our entire team sucks way too often in the 2nd half of games whether we're winning or not. It's a huge problem and it needs addressed. You can blame Marvin, Mike, Andy, Geno, Burfict, A.J., or the abominable snowman for all I fucking care, I just want to see it fixed.

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2 hours ago, VonBlade said:

Not empirical, but I have a general feeling that when we're up a good amount (say two scores) at the half then we play the next half in "grind the clock" mode.

 

I think that's at least part of it, and it's not very effective if you're typically not getting a lot of yards rushing.

 

Hue Jackson has his faults but usually had our offensive ready to play and he wasn't afraid to twist the knife a bit & put teams away to finish games.

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its fucking hilarious that people think marvin calls plays. or even tells the OC what plays to call.. ot tells the OC so "call a bunch of palys where andy throws the ball out of bounds or in the ground" ..

 

blaming marvin for andy shitting his pants in any remotely tough game situations is completely insane. 

 

 

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22 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

The game not yet played is neither won nor lost, but waiting to become*

 

Ask yourself:  What is the sound of one hand fapping?

 

 

 

*probably lost tho LOL

 

 

16 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

:grin-min:

 

Keep telling yourself that

 

Isn't the biggest indicator of being a troll the fact that the poster never actually addresses the topic of the thread?

 

:39:

 

 

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There is a reason that every NFL team gets more conservative with a lead.  Incompletions stop the clock and interceptions are far more common than RBs fumbling.

 

I still see that no one can give a specific example of the Bengal losing a game due to conservative play calling, but I can give an example of the opposite.  Tampa Bay 2009.  Bengals have a 7 point lead and the ball at their own 38 with 2:28 left in the game.  Bucs have ZERO timeouts left.  Our defense had been playing well and had only given up 14 points.  On 3rd and 13 with a very slim chance of converting Bengals throw the ball down the filed instead of the usual draw/screen.  Interception by Tampa Bay leads to a td.  Bengals get the ball back and are facing a first and twenty in their own territory with just 25 seconds and one time out left.  Bengals are not losing.  Game is tied.  Again Palmer throws deep and again it is picked off.  Interception is returned deep into Bengal territory allowing the Bucs to kick the game winning FG.

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37 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

 

 

Isn't the biggest indicator of being a troll the fact that the poster never actually addresses the topic of the thread?

 

:39:

 

 

When you have over a dozen different posters referring to you as a troll, it might be time to look in the mirror and embrace your inner troll.

 

 

troll.jpg

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11 minutes ago, USN Bengal said:

When you have over a dozen different posters referring to you as a troll, it might be time to look in the mirror and embrace your inner troll.

 

 

troll.jpg

 

It is not a dozen.  Not even close.  It is only a few members who I prove wrong and who are afraid to address the points I make.

 

The proof is right here in this thread. Look at the number of posts in this thread that have nothing to do with the OP but instead just personally attack me.

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56 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

1. its fucking hilarious that people think marvin calls plays. or even tells the OC what plays to call.. ot tells the OC so "call a bunch of palys where andy throws the ball out of bounds or in the ground" ..

 

2. blaming marvin for andy shitting his pants in any remotely tough game situations is completely insane. 

 

 

 

1. I'll have to chalk that one up to yet another thing that Marvin Lewis has nothing to do with. People keep saying all of these things that we can't blame Marvin for, so what does that man actually do?

 

2. If only we could see another QB play under Marvin to see if the same thing happens. Maybe we could grab that kid from Arizona, I heard he had a really good season a couple of years back and he was highly rated coming out of college.

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1 hour ago, GoBengals said:

its fucking hilarious that people think marvin calls plays. or even tells the OC what plays to call.. ot tells the OC so "call a bunch of palys where andy throws the ball out of bounds or in the ground" ..

 

blaming marvin for andy shitting his pants in any remotely tough game situations is completely insane. 

 

 

lol.. fucking broken record..

 

I know I love all the super bowls ole marv has from when the golden boy quitter was here

 

 

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