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John Ross - PLOT TWIST


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3 minutes ago, Jpoore said:

If I've said it once I've said it 100 times. Lewis knows he is out, he got over ruled on picking Ross over whoever he wanted, and is taking it out on Ross by not playing him even though he is clearly better than core and Erickson.

 

Based on what?  His one reception for a fumble? Imaginary Pro Bowl appearances?

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5 minutes ago, Jpoore said:

If I've said it once I've said it 100 times. Lewis knows he is out, he got over ruled on picking Ross over whoever he wanted, and is taking it out on Ross by not playing him even though he is clearly better than core and Erickson.

 

Seriously?  You honestly think Marvin would screw over an entire team of players he respects and ruin his own reputation just to punish Ross for something ROSS DIDN'T EVEN DO?

 

And how do you explain the fact that Marvin actually played Ross and tried to throw the ball deep to him if he was trying to punish Ross?

 

Do you realize how completely insane this makes you sound?

 

Oh wait, I just realized who I was responding to.

 

Never mind.

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3 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

Seriously?  You honestly think Marvin would screw over an entire team of players he respects and ruin his own reputation just to punish Ross for something ROSS DIDN'T EVEN DO?

 

And how do you explain the fact that Marvin actually played Ross and tried to throw the ball deep to him if he was trying to punish Ross?

 

Do you realize how completely insane this makes you sound?

 

Oh wait, I just realized who I was responding to.

 

Never mind.

Yes I do believe that. And Erickson has muffed how many punts this season? But has yet to be called out on it. And his practices seems to show he was more than ready. U mess up on one play u get taken out for year? That's insane.lewis is being a stubborn crybaby and taking it out on Ross.

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12 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Last year when McVay was OC for the Redskins they used a first round pick on WR Josh Doctson and he only had 2 receptions all year.

 

This year with the Rams McVay has Tavon Austin who was a higher draft pick (#8 in 2013) than Ross and he only has 10 catches despite playing in every game.

 

Doctson was hurt all of last year. I said healthy. Comprehend better, please.

 

what’s your point? Tavon Austin is shorter than Ross, slower than Ross, and jumps about 5 inches less than Ross. He was the product of a gadget offense in college. He’s worked out about as well as Pat White and Steve Slaton did. I couldve told you it’s dumb to draft a 5’8 WR who doesn’t jump off the page athletically in the top 10. Too much would have to go right for him to be worth the pick. He’s competing against Watkins, Cupp, Woods, and Gurley for snaps. Why would he play?

 

If Ross was 5 years in and had yet to show a glimpse of top WR potential, I wouldn’t expect a new coach to fix that. Ross is not Austin. Yet. 

 

New Coaches Please

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12 hours ago, fredtoast said:

James Urban is one of the best positions coaches on the team.

 

He got more out of Brandon LaFell than anyone here thought he would.

 

He got 54 catches out of a rookie second round pick (Boyd) last year.

 

He developed a third round pick (Sanu) and a 5th round pick (Jones) into two of the highest paid free agent WRs on the market.

 

He got the only 50 reception season out of Jerome Simpson in his 7 year 3 team NFL career.

Who says that he is? Because Andy Benoit told you so?

 

I’m glad you’re happy with Lafell. I watch his effort when it comes to blocking and I won’t see who coaches him. 

 

Boyd got 54 catches last year. I’m glad. Must have been tough competing with Lafell, Core, Erickson, and Uzomah for that target share. What happened this year? Good coaching or bad coaching?

 

Im sure he helped them some. Both players seem to be playing their best football away from the Bengals. Good for them. 

 

There was no no one else to throw to in 2011 besides AJ. Every time Caldwell got a target, it was intercepted. Simpson best play as a Bengal came at the end of 2010.

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20 hours ago, fredtoast said:

But is he just not very good because of injuries?  That is the question.

 

If I understand it correctly this thread is about Ross being healthy and good but just kept on the bench because Marvin likes to lose and make himself look bad.

If it were just injuries I would think the organization would have his back which doesn't seem to be the case. Sure, a healthy Ross who knows the plays and runs good routes might be a good receiver

 

Ross posting a few videos of himself and adding the healthy scratch caption is laughable and not helpful.  Reminds me of my friend who put together a lacrosse recruiting video for his son. Scene after scene of him scoring. Never showed all the times he lost the ball since he was the biggest ball hog in the history of the sport.

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32 minutes ago, SF2 said:

If it were just injuries I would think the organization would have his back which doesn't seem to be the case. Sure, a healthy Ross who knows the plays and runs good routes might be a good receiver

 

Ross posting a few videos of himself and adding the healthy scratch caption is laughable and not helpful.  Reminds me of my friend who put together a lacrosse recruiting video for his son. Scene after scene of him scoring. Never showed all the times he lost the ball since he was the biggest ball hog in the history of the sport.

 

So long as there's a meddlesome owner insistent on coddling his players like errant children, instead of dealing with them as highly-paid employees based on a standard of performance that applies equally to everyone in the organization,  this kind of immaturity & lack of discipline or focus will continue to relegate his team to "almost" greatness at best, and mediocrity on average.

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2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

So long as there's a meddlesome owner insistent on coddling his players and especially head coaches like errant children, instead of dealing with them as highly-paid employees based on a standard of performance that applies equally to everyone in the organization,  this kind of immaturity & lack of discipline or focus will continue to relegate his team to "almost" greatness at best, and mediocrity on average.

As far as Ross, I vote "bust" until proven otherwise.

Wish it were otherwise but "potential" means virtually nothing until

it turns into "production".

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1 minute ago, High School Harry said:

As far as Ross, I vote "bust" until proven otherwise.

Wish it were otherwise but "potential" means virtually nothing until

it turns into "production".

 

Boggles my mind that he got paid millions of dollars this season in return for a fumble.  It wasn't even one of those funny fleebed ones where the ball changes hands 4-5 times.

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On 12/15/2017 at 10:46 PM, Madieu Superstar said:

 

 Both players seem to be playing their best football away from the Bengals. Good for them. 

 

Sanu had his career high seasons in receiving yards, yards per catch, and tds all with the Bengals.

 

Oh, wiat, I forgot.  "Facts are for trolls", right?

 

 

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35 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Sanu had his career high seasons in receiving yards, yards per catch, and tds all with the Bengals.

 

Oh, wiat, I forgot.  "Facts are for trolls", right?

 

 

Sanu is 212 yards away from is career high in yards. He still has 3 games to go. He also has already tied his career high in TD receptions.

He's also going to play one less game this year than he did in his career-best season.

He also has now won playoff games and appeared in a Super Bowl.

 

But don't let these facts prohibit your innate ability to distort other facts in order to prove your bizarre and worthless points of view. 

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8 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said:

Sanu is 212 yards away from is career high in yards. He still has 3 games to go.

Doesn't matter how many games he has played because he is still avceraging fewer yards per game than he did with the Bengals in 14.

 

But you still not escape the fact that it was Urban who developed Sanu. The Falcons paid him $32 million because he was a finished product. Sanu was the 12th WR taken in the '12 draft and only 2 of the 11 WR taken before him have more receptions (Kendall Wright, Alshon Jeffery.

 

Same with Marvin Jones.  Jones was the 24th WR taken in the '12 draft and after a few years of Urban's coaching he got a $40 million contract.  His production has gone up with the Lions, but a lot is due to the fact that the Lions throw the ball a lot more than the Bengals and Marvin does not have to compete with AJ Green for targets.  He was coached up before he left the Bengals.

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1 hour ago, Madieu Superstar said:

Sanu is 212 yards away from is career high in yards. He still has 3 games to go. He also has already tied his career high in TD receptions.

He's also going to play one less game this year than he did in his career-best season.

He also has now won playoff games and appeared in a Super Bowl.

 

But don't let these facts prohibit your innate ability to distort other facts in order to prove your bizarre and worthless points of view. 

 

 

You're trying to argue with a guy who compared himself to Galileo.  

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35 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Doesn't matter how many games he has played because he is still avceraging fewer yards per game than he did with the Bengals in 14.

 

But you still not escape the fact that it was Urban who developed Sanu. The Falcons paid him $32 million because he was a finished product. Sanu was the 12th WR taken in the '12 draft and only 2 of the 11 WR taken before him have more receptions (Kendall Wright, Alshon Jeffery.

 

Same with Marvin Jones.  Jones was the 24th WR taken in the '12 draft and after a few years of Urban's coaching he got a $40 million contract.  His production has gone up with the Lions, but a lot is due to the fact that the Lions throw the ball a lot more than the Bengals and Marvin does not have to compete with AJ Green for targets.  He was coached up before he left the Bengals.

The premise of your argument is stupid. Is James urban responsible for developing AJ Green? Coaches are always responsible for developing players, but don't forget that Sanu had 115 catches during his last year at Rutgers. He wasn't exactly a scrub. Furthermore, he's been fortunate to play next to WR's who command a lot of attention (Green & Jones). While many high picks are saddled with having to be "the guy", he's been the perfect complementary piece, which has always been his ceiling. 

 

Again, Marvin Jones has been better since leaving the Bengals. Keep making your argument that cannot be proven. It's the only argument that can't be proven false. That's progress for you.  

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On 12/15/2017 at 8:21 PM, T-Dub said:

 

:Thoughtful-min:

 

Maybe you should watch it again.  HINT: Ross is wearing a white jersey with stripes.  The blue jerseys are the other team.

 

 

 

 

Showed the lateral agility as well as the top end speed. That's all I needed to see.

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18 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

You're trying to argue with a guy who compared himself to Galileo.  

Which makes him more of a man than you who just runs and hides whenever I show up.

 

BTW aren't you supposed to be ignoring me?  Do you know what the term "ignore" means?  Because you make more posts about me than you do the Bengals.

 

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21 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Sanu had his career high seasons in receiving yards, yards per catch, and tds all with the Bengals.

 

Oh, wiat, I forgot.  "Facts are for trolls", right?

 

 

Sanu played 986 snaps on O in 2014 and had 56 receptions on 98 targets (57.1 catch percentage), 9 dropped passes (9.2% drop rate, only 3 players dropped more passes and his percentage worse than almost all other WRs that actually saw targets), 790 yards, 5 TDs, and spent some time in a bigger role due to one of the NFL's best WRs being injured for 3 games.

 

Sanu played 744 snaps on O in 2016 and had 59 receptions on 81 targets (72.8 catch percentage), 1 dropped pass (1.2% drop rate, one of the best in the league among WRs), 653 yards, 4 TDs, and spent some time in a bigger role due to one of the NFL's best WRs being injured for 2 games.

 

He's always been considered a good blocker and not only was he more productive on a per snap basis in 2016, he actually got to enjoy playoff success and played well in 2 of the games catching some TD passes along the way. Hell the dude even got to play in a Super Bowl. I'd say his 2016 was most likely superior to his 2014 with all things considered.

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On 12/17/2017 at 11:39 AM, Madieu Superstar said:

The premise of your argument is stupid. Is James urban responsible for developing AJ Green? Coaches are always responsible for developing players, but don't forget that Sanu had 115 catches during his last year at Rutgers. He wasn't exactly a scrub. Furthermore, he's been fortunate to play next to WR's who command a lot of attention (Green & Jones). While many high picks are saddled with having to be "the guy", he's been the perfect complementary piece, which has always been his ceiling. 

 

Again, Marvin Jones has been better since leaving the Bengals. Keep making your argument that cannot be proven. It's the only argument that can't be proven false. That's progress for you.  

 

9 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

Sanu played 986 snaps on O in 2014 and had 56 receptions on 98 targets (57.1 catch percentage), 9 dropped passes (9.2% drop rate, only 3 players dropped more passes and his percentage worse than almost all other WRs that actually saw targets), 790 yards, 5 TDs, and spent some time in a bigger role due to one of the NFL's best WRs being injured for 3 games.

 

Sanu played 744 snaps on O in 2016 and had 59 receptions on 81 targets (72.8 catch percentage), 1 dropped pass (1.2% drop rate, one of the best in the league among WRs), 653 yards, 4 TDs, and spent some time in a bigger role due to one of the NFL's best WRs being injured for 2 games.

 

He's always been considered a good blocker and not only was he more productive on a per snap basis in 2016, he actually got to enjoy playoff success and played well in 2 of the games catching some TD passes along the way. Hell the dude even got to play in a Super Bowl. I'd say his 2016 was most likely superior to his 2014 with all things considered.

 

 

Do you guys remember the point you were trying to make?  Who cares if Marvin Jones and MO Sanu might bhave increased their production slightly since leaving the Bengals.  They were still developed by Urban.  They were the 12th and 23rd WRs taken in th 2012 draft and they outperformed 90% of the WRs taken in front of them before they ever left the Bengals.  How the hell does that make Urban a "complete moron"?  And if he is a complete moron then doesn't that mean trhat every other WR coach in the league is a complete moron also because the players they drafted higher than Jones and Sanu did not perform as well.

 

Only on a Bengals website would a coach who turned a 5th and a 3rd round pick into two of the top free agents on the market get called a complete moron.

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3 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

 

 

Do you guys remember the point you were trying to make?  Who cares if Marvin Jones and MO Sanu might bhave increased their production slightly since leaving the Bengals.  They were still developed by Urban.  They were the 12th and 23rd WRs taken in th 2012 draft and they outperformed 90% of the WRs taken in front of them before they ever left the Bengals.  How the hell does that make Urban a "complete moron"?  And if he is a complete moron then doesn't that mean trhat every other WR coach in the league is a complete moron also because the players they drafted higher than Jones and Sanu did not perform as well.

 

Only on a Bengals website would a coach who turned a 5th and a 3rd round pick into two of the top free agents on the market get called a complete moron.

Your go-to move is to state things that can't be proven one way or another. All players develop some once they leave college and become professionals. So what? 

Both of those players have increased production since they left. I could argue that getting away from James Urban is the reason for that increased production. Could you prove me wrong? 

 

You give Urban credit for "developing" the 12th and 23rd WR's taken in the 2012 draft.

By your own logic, we SHOULD then castigate him for the abject failure in developing the 6th (Boyd) and 23rd (Core) WR's taken in the 2015 draft. 

 

That's not counting the disaster that we witnessed this season with the 3rd (Ross) WR taken in the draft, as well as the relatively nothing that we saw from the 27th (Malone) WR taken.

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