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It’s “official” Marvin is leaving..


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6 hours ago, A Rock said:

This is true, but it wasn't the first quarter against the Dolphins in September. It definitely was his job to asses the situation and make sure his team knew the dynamics and priorities of the final 90 seconds. The promised land of a playoff victory against the dreaded Stealers was at hand. The air was electric and the crowd in a frenzy. Yes, you need to remind your back that looking after the ball is now more than #1, #2, and #3. It is everything because of the situation. That play certainly didn't look like it was run by a team that had been calmed down and focused despite the adrenaline of the moment. Quite the opposite after Burfict, et al, finally finished running up and down the tunnel gloriously, if not somewhat stupidly, prematurely celebrating what should have been the game winning pick.

 

Meh people would complain no matter what he did.

 

If he was calm on the sidelines then he "lacked fire".  If he was fiery then he was "out of control".  No matter what he did it was wrong.

 

And he should not have had to tell a RB not to fumble.  Can y0ou blame every one opf Dalton's interceptions on Marvin if Marvin failed to tell him not top throw an interception on each possession.

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23 hours ago, whodey365 said:

I dont buy the whole poorly paid assistants. Did these assistants not sign contracts? The money was right when they signed but now after two poor seasons they're treated unfair? 

 

23 hours ago, thezerawkid said:

Yeah, this doesn’t pass the smell test for me, either. I bet assistants, based on their title and responsibility, basically receive slotted, relatively industry-determined amounts.

I thought the one single thing that everyone here could agree on was that Mike Brown is cheap.  Every time a free agent leaves the fans rip Mike for being too cheap.

 

But the first time Marvin says something about it everyone turns on him.

 

"Mike Brown, Cheap?  Who ever heard of such a ridiculous notion?  Clearly this is just Marvin Lewis making up some bullshit."

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51 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Then pretty much every coach in the league has an ass hole mentality.

 

Marvin talks to the press just like almost every other coach in the league.

Ehh I'm not sure you're getting the context.  We were speaking about how Marvin treats the fans like they're nothing more than another tool in his arsenal (stadium loudness) and they shouldn't have an opinion about actual football matters.  I don't believe I've ever heard another coach say that before.  I'm not saying it hasn't happened and not saying other coaches don't have the same attitude (or worse), but does that make it better somehow?  A real coach is mature and professional enough to *at least* understand that the fans pay his salary, and he should *at minimum* acknowledge them when addressing the media.  It doesn't mean he has to be your best buddy on the street, it doesn't mean he has to address every fan query - he has to simply acknowledge that the fans often are deeply involved and take it seriously.  If you want an example of a professional coach who does it "the right way" take a look at Mike Babcock of the Maple Leafs.  Dude explains lineups and strategy, why one guy is out or in, and acknowledges that a lot of the fans are *very savvy and observant hockey people* and doesn't try to just brush them off - far from it, he treats them exactly like a professional should.

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56 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

 

I thought the one single thing that everyone here could agree on was that Mike Brown is cheap.  Every time a free agent leaves the fans rip Mike for being too cheap.

 

But the first time Marvin says something about it everyone turns on him.

 

"Mike Brown, Cheap?  Who ever heard of such a ridiculous notion?  Clearly this is just Marvin Lewis making up some bullshit."

Marvin denied the report so apparently the assistants don't feel that way and if they did then why sign in the first place?

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2 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Meh people would complain no matter what he did.

 

If he was calm on the sidelines then he "lacked fire".  If he was fiery then he was "out of control".  No matter what he did it was wrong.

 

And he should not have had to tell a RB not to fumble.  Can y0ou blame every one opf Dalton's interceptions on Marvin if Marvin failed to tell him not top throw an interception on each possession.

Meh you just like to argue. He never seemed too calm or fiery to me. He was quite even keeled in demeanor. He just had a propensity to choke when it mattered most. I already, in great detail, described the problem was the play itself. As a head coach, it was absolutely his job to make sure his team ran three consecutive plays without losing possession. Worst case scenario has got to be a field goal attempt. If Hill, or anyone else in our backfield could've gotten 10 yards pushing forward behind linemen, great. Game over. Hill burst through the right side like it was 3rd and 7 in the first quarter. The Stealers must've been ecstatic as stripping the ball was their only chance. This, and Marvin's asinine comment about it after the game is what I was talking about. In fact, the team was blocking like it was 3rd and 7 as I look at the video of it. Just not situational football at all. The team's been tanking for two years since this debacle, but apparently some people will not complain no matter what.

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The impression I get from Marvin leaking news that he is leaving after this season is that he's trying to make it look like it was his decision even though he was probably gone no matter what.  Whatever he thinks is the case isn't relevant because he will be gone next year and it is overdue, IMO.  I do believe whoever replaces him will be at a disadvantage because of the Brown family and their chintzy ways.  Along with Dallas, the Bengals remain one of two franchises with an owner who doubles as GM.  My hope is that they hire outside the current organization and I would prefer an offensive coach since that side of the ball badly needs a new direction.

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Backstabbing his former employer like this and selling out his team before the season is over is not 

something he should want on his resume.  Other teams notice this stuff, too, and the obvious thought

is "if he did it to them, be would do it to us".  Maybe he can get a job doing public relations for the Stealers.

They deserve each other.

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14 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Backstabbing his former employer like this and selling out his team before the season is over is not 

something he should want on his resume.  Other teams notice this stuff, too, and the obvious thought

is "if he did it to them, be would do it to us".  Maybe he can get a job doing public relations for the Stealers.

They deserve each other.

I just can't believe that Mike or Katie or anyone was blindsided or didn't have an inkling that Marvin had had enough. Hell Jon Gruden made a comment about it a couple weeks ago. I imagine Marvin made that statement way earlier not just recently out of the blue. I'm not sure I'd say he sold out the team either. They were still quite in the thick of things and we're playing very inspiring football the first half against the Stealers. Then we'll, the Stealers pulled their usual Stealers bullshit.

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the conspiracy theorist in me is hoping and I know hope is not a method, but that Marvin did leak the story. But the intention was not what we all assume. It's a warning to MB. I think there are still things that Marvin wants more control over and if MB wants him back he has to conceded more decision making or Marivn walks.

 

I have to like this theory better as it portray Marvin as the saavy one playing the best hand he can. Otherwise, the narrative is that he really is checked out and clueless.

 

I doubt it makes a difference to MB. He will, IMHO, always think as a business owner first and not as a fan.

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On 12/18/2017 at 4:41 PM, fredtoast said:

 

I thought the one single thing that everyone here could agree on was that Mike Brown is cheap.  Every time a free agent leaves the fans rip Mike for being too cheap.

 

But the first time Marvin says something about it everyone turns on him.

 

"Mike Brown, Cheap?  Who ever heard of such a ridiculous notion?  Clearly this is just Marvin Lewis making up some bullshit."

I think Mike Brown, when it comes to paying people, used to be way cheaper than he is now. You still see a problem with spending in free agency, sure, but the extensions he pays out in house are generally good enough. If they weren’t, guys would leave all the time. 

 

And, as I alluded to, I think paying assistant coaches is a much more exact science across the league than even paying players. 

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1 hour ago, thezerawkid said:

I think Mike Brown, when it comes to paying people, used to be way cheaper than he is now. You still see a problem with spending in free agency, sure, but the extensions he pays out in house are generally good enough. If they weren’t, guys would leave all the time. 

 

And, as I alluded to, I think paying assistant coaches is a much more exact science across the league than even paying players. 

Yeah, but the cheap-ass still won't spring for a covered practice facility.  I'm not sure the money is always the only thing in free agency.  It's how you run your operation. 

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18 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

 

 

I doubt it makes a difference to MB. He will, IMHO, always think as a business owner first and not as a fan.

 

Aren't they kind of the same thing?  If the team sucks people stop buying tickets & merch.  

 

Maybe he's satisfied with the matching funds and shared TV revenue?  That might fit the mindset of a guy who thinks putting butter on his toast is extravagant, IDK.  

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12 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

Maybe he's satisfied with the matching funds and shared TV revenue?  That might fit the mindset of a guy who thinks putting butter on his toast is extravagant, IDK.  

I think this is pretty much it.  Over the years the Brown family has been notorious for whining about being a small market team and begging for handouts from the richer teams.

I think the richer teams understand the small cap teams problems but their issue with MB specifically is they feel he does nothing on his own to help grow the "Bengals" brand and help himself.  He just wants free handouts from everyone else.

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30 minutes ago, westside bengal said:

 

I think the richer teams understand the small cap teams problems but their issue with MB specifically is they feel he does nothing on his own to help grow the "Bengals" brand and help himself.  He just wants free handouts from everyone else.

Why would other teams care about money they would never see?

 

If all Mike cared about was money then he would sell the naming rights to Paul Brown stadium for millions of dollars, but other owners in the league don't give a shit if he does or not because they would not get any of that money and it would have zero effect on "shared revenue".

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The reality is Mike Brown and family didn't found Microsoft, didn't marry a Walton heiress and didn't start an automotive bumper empire.  They have the Bengals which is their business.  They can't spend more than they make since they don't have a spare 3 or 4 billion laying around. 

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1 minute ago, SF2 said:

The reality is Mike Brown and family didn't found Microsoft, din't marry a Walton heiress and didn't start and automotive bumper empire.  They have the Bengals which is their business.  They can't spend more than they make since they don't have a spare 3 or 4 billion laying around. 

This.

 

Just look at the other team that approaches free agency something like the Bengals.  The Packers are the only publicly held team in the league.  Their front office has to answer to a board of directors and shareholders regarding spending decisions.

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3 hours ago, SF2 said:

The reality is Mike Brown and family didn't found Microsoft, din't marry a Walton heiress and didn't start and automotive bumper empire.  They have the Bengals which is their business.  They can't spend more than they make since they don't have a spare 3 or 4 billion laying around. 

 

That's an excellent point.  Most NFL owners approach it more like a hobby or vanity project.  I'm sure they don't want to lose a ton of money, but it's a status symbol, not something they rely on.

 

At the same time,  I don't see how money or the lack of it causes the playoff meltdowns and other problems. 

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4 hours ago, SF2 said:

The reality is Mike Brown and family didn't found Microsoft, didn't marry a Walton heiress and didn't start an automotive bumper empire.  They have the Bengals which is their business.  They can't spend more than they make since they don't have a spare 3 or 4 billion laying around. 

Meh, he DID invest all of the profits from the 90's buying back team stock so that the Brown family were the only owners. I mean... I get your point, but it's hard to say that they're somehow struggling.

 

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38 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

That's an excellent point.  Most NFL owners approach it more like a hobby or vanity project.  I'm sure they don't want to lose a ton of money, but it's a status symbol, not something they rely on.

 

At the same time,  I don't see how money or the lack of it causes the playoff meltdowns and other problems. 

No, the playoff meltdowns are a different thing.  The thing that hurts us is the Browns can't spend an additional $100 million an ancillaries like Jerry Jones or Paul Allen in Seattle.   Its hard to attract the best available coach here this year when New York has money everywhere, a new stadium and the coach will get paid more.   Plenty of other gigs the New York Giants coach can do to make even more money plus all the media connections you can make.   You are right, for most of these guys, their football team is more like a vanity plate than a business.    

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13 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Meh, he DID invest all of the profits from the 90's buying back team stock so that the Brown family were the only owners. I mean... I get your point, but it's hard to say that they're somehow struggling.

 

No they are certainly not struggling but retaining the team once Mike dies is going to cost them a lot of money in Estate Taxes unless the Trump tax plan passes and Mike lives past 2024.  Still the state of Ohio will still want some money.  Using profits to buy back company stock is being done so they can retain ownership and pay taxes.   The money they are spending is not going into a new practice facility or a better game experience at PBS. 

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2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

At the same time,  I don't see how money or the lack of it causes the playoff meltdowns and other problems. 

I often defend the Bengals for not spending exorbitant amounts in free agency, and except for 2011 they have spent as much or more than the average NFL team.  In fact, thanks to the salary space that they had rolled over (instead of pocketing like some NFL owners) the Bengals were able to spend OVER the NFL salary cap in both 2015 and 2016.

 

But here is the problem.  The Bengals still had a large amount of salary space they did not use.  It is not wise for any NFL team to constantly blow money on risky free agent deals, but the ONE time that I think it is acceptable is if you are really close to having a contender for a championship and your fans have not had a single postseason win 25 years.  So while Mike Brown has not been super cheap these last few years he has still been maddeningly conservative with a plan that has NEVER produced a postseason win since he took control.

 

I am not talking about a bunch of signings or even signing the #1 player at any position.  I am just talking about paying up for one good starter a year.  Just look at the difference one good player could have made in each of the recent playoff years.

 

I can almost forgive them not spending in 2011 because everyone was saying we were going to be one of the very worst teams in the league, but the fact is that the Bengals admitted they needed an OG when they tried to sign Duce Latui, but when that fell apart we did not go after anyone else.

 

2012....BenJarvus Green-Ellis may not have fumbled very much, but his lack of receiving ability severely limited our offense.  Especially when the #2 WR (Hawkins) only had 533 receiving yards and the #3 WR was Armon Binns (18 rec 210 yds).  RBs are cheap in free agency.  We should have had an upgrade.

 

2013...SLB.  Again a cheap position to fill in free agency.  James Harrison did not play that bad, but he was a round peg in a square hole.

 

2014....OC.  After three straight first round playoff losses it was no time to be starting a 4th round pick at OC.  Even if you are 100% committed to building through the draft you need to use a first or second round pick when you know you are drafting a guy to start as a rookie.

 

2015....SLB.  A washed up A.J. Hawk is all they could come up with for a team that was seriously talented enough to contend for the Supe Bowl?  Again LB is a cheap position to fill in free agency.

 

To be perfectly honest I think the Bengals coaching staff deserves a lot of credit for the production they did get out of players who were written off before coming here.  Guys like Manny Lawson, Thomas Howard, Nate Clements, Terrance Newman, Chris Crocker, Cedric Benson, BJGE, Kyle Cooke, Evan Mathis, Brandon LaFell, Wallace Gilberry, and many others.  But I believe that they would have won more games with just a little more spending in free agency.

 

 

 

 

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https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/12/20/how-cincinnati-bengals-head-coach-marvin-lewis-bungled-his-message/970439001/

 

Quote

 

How Cincinnati Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis bungled his message
Jim Owczarski, jowczarski@enquirer.com Published 3:27 p.m. ET Dec. 20, 2017


Few six-minute, one-mile rides have had as much impact on a football team than the one the Cincinnati Bengals’ team buses made from their hotel in downtown Minneapolis to U.S. Bank Stadium Sunday afternoon.

 

In that brief window, ESPN’s national NFL reporter Adam Schefter – an industry heavyweight known for breaking insider news, reported definitively that Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis was going to step away from the team after the season to pursue other opportunities.

 

On the buses phones of players, coaches and staff pinged and buzzed with notifications of the news first on social media, and then with text messages. Players showed one another and began talking about it.

 

Not everyone on the 53-man roster saw the news immediately. Many were immersed in their pregame routines, and it was a short trip. But it shortly spread through the entire locker room. If a player didn’t know getting off the bus, he found out as the team began getting ready to play the Vikings.


In his postgame press conference Sunday, Lewis quipped that players didn’t see it on their phones because “these guys are on their phones with somebody that’s not watching or has anything to do with the NFL.”

 

Cincinnati Bengals caught in the dark by report of Marvin Lewis' decision to leave team

 

That was not the case.

 

Lewis also said he didn’t hear about it on the bus. Which may be true, but he definitely knew it was out once he hit the field for warmups as multiple team staff members approached him about it.

 

By the time the team collected itself in the locker room before hitting the field, it was a sizeable elephant in the room.

 

But it wasn’t so much what the message was. Every player knew Lewis’ contract was up and there was a question about his future.

 

“I feel like ever since I’ve been here, that’s kind of been the thing – outside sources saying Marvin is going to leave,” corner Darqueze Dennard said postgame. “That’s been here. This is my fourth year, so ain’t no telling how long it’s been going on. Ever since I’ve been here that’s been the word but obviously, he’s still out here coaching.”

 

Doc: Here’s what remains for Marvin Lewis and the Cincinnati Bengals

 

The problem for the team was how the message was delivered.

 

Or rather, not delivered.

 

“It doesn’t matter to me, that’s just the person I am – I’m pretty sure it matters to some other guys having that come out before the game and not having him address that, which is his decision,” Bengals seven-time Pro Bowl wide receiver A.J. Green said Tuesday.

 

“But I know some guys probably didn’t take as well, him not addressing it before the game. We all have social media. We all know what’s going on. So I’m pretty sure some guys felt some kind of way about the situation. But at the end of the day, we’re professionals we have to play this game of football that we get paid for.”

 

Cincinnati Bengals Walkthru: Time for Marvin Lewis, Mike Brown to hash this out

 

It is true that not every player cared in the moment. Many remained focused on their job Sunday. But Green did have his finger on the pulse of some. And several veterans The Enquirer spoke to especially felt it was the least Lewis could do, rather than leave it to the players and assistants to work through it right before kickoff.


Lewis told reporters after the 34-7 loss to the Vikings that he addressed it after the game, which he did – but the message was to ignore “reports” and that it wasn’t true.  

 

“He just mentioned it,” quarterback Andy Dalton said Sunday. “I think at the end of the day we just have to keep playing. That’s all that was really said.”

 

Some players, like Green, didn’t hear that address because they were in the throes of getting undressed. Or, some simply didn’t care to hear it.

“Right. Right. Exactly” Green said. “Especially when you’re losing, you’re losing like that. It’s kind of tough.”

 

In his postgame press conference, Lewis denied on two occasions that the report was inaccurate. He then tried to tie it loosely to the Monday night football broadcast on ESPN in which the announcing team of Sean McDonough and Jon Gruden said they felt Lewis was ready to move on following their pregame production meetings.

 

But immediately following the ESPN report on Sunday the NFL Network – a league-owned outlet – and its national insider Ian Rapoport sent out two tweets that backed up ESPN’s report and said Lewis felt at peace with his situation and planned a move to a front office.

 

Rapoport tweeted: “When I discussed his future with Lewis last night, he told me being a GM is “something I would listen to.” Both sides seem at peace with a new start.”

 

Once back in Cincinnati, Lewis continued to deny the report’s accuracy to the media and to Bengals players and staff.

 

The Enquirer spoke to nine members of the organization and none have believed that message. And despite Lewis’ pleas to the local media on Monday to let the issue “die down,” it’s something that remains a topic of conversation and thought in the locker room.

 

The Bengals play their final home game of 2017 on Sunday, and it is likely Lewis’ last in 15 years. Instead of getting a proper send-off for helping to rebuild the franchise and posting a career winning record as the most successful coach in franchise history, all parties are left twisting in the wind about his future until the season officially comes to a close on Dec. 31 in Baltimore.

 

 

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