LostInDaJungle Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, kennethmw said: Seriously, Bro, why do you even try? Logic is not logical to the illogical. He was pretty good when he got here, and got lazy and unmotivated under his coach. He then flourished under a new coach a year later. Conclusion: Paul Alexander is a great coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwing Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 3 hours ago, fredtoast said: Alexander started Mathis over Livings until Mathis got injured. I wont argue it as it’s be too long. You may very well be correct. I seem to recall that Livings missing time, Mathis shined and Livings was given the job back. That stated, could have some of all the above. So I did what I hadn’t plan to do and did a very brief lookup. Livings was the starter and hurt his knee in Sept of 2009. Mathis came in and made 7 starts. Mathis was rated the best LG in football during this time. He gave up zero sacks in 2009. Per the article below, those were Mathis’s only starts during his time in Cincinnati. Mathis had a high ankle sprain. Livings resumed the starters spot and Mathis never had another start until he left. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2009/9/19/1037631/bengals-guard-nate-livings-out https://www.cincyjungle.com/2014/3/26/5549640/philadelphia-eagles-open-to-trading-former-bengals-og-evan-mathis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Here’s the actual TRUTH about the Livings and Mathis saga... and “surprisingly“ it’s NOT what the troll said; https://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/7/31/2307330/former-guard-evan-mathis-signs-with-the-philadelphia-eagles Then here is Alexander talking about the starters and line play for 2011... Mathis was better in all of us dumb fans minds, talking heads and NFL experts, and analysis sites... but not by Alexander and the troll. http://m.bengals.com/news/article-1/O-Line-embraces-move-back-to-09-style/93751472-cc70-4996-bffb-d4a0ad8ecfe5 Facts and logic, the enemies of the troll my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passepartout Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Yeah as facts are facts and opinions are that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 15 hours ago, cwing said: I wont argue it as it’s be too long. You may very well be correct. I seem to recall that Livings missing time, Mathis shined and Livings was given the job back. That stated, could have some of all the above. So I did what I hadn’t plan to do and did a very brief lookup. Livings was the starter and hurt his knee in Sept of 2009. Mathis came in and made 7 starts. Mathis was rated the best LG in football during this time. He gave up zero sacks in 2009. Per the article below, those were Mathis’s only starts during his time in Cincinnati. Mathis had a high ankle sprain. Livings resumed the starters spot and Mathis never had another start until he left. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2009/9/19/1037631/bengals-guard-nate-livings-out https://www.cincyjungle.com/2014/3/26/5549640/philadelphia-eagles-open-to-trading-former-bengals-og-evan-mathis 14 hours ago, USN Bengal said: Here’s the actual TRUTH about the Livings and Mathis saga... and “surprisingly“ it’s NOT what the troll said; https://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/7/31/2307330/former-guard-evan-mathis-signs-with-the-philadelphia-eagles Then here is Alexander talking about the starters and line play for 2011... Mathis was better in all of us dumb fans minds, talking heads and NFL experts, and analysis sites... but not by Alexander and the troll. http://m.bengals.com/news/article-1/O-Line-embraces-move-back-to-09-style/93751472-cc70-4996-bffb-d4a0ad8ecfe5 Facts and logic, the enemies of the troll my friends. None of that is any different from what I said. I did not realize that Livings started the first game of the season in '09, but he just missed two games. When Livings returned Mathis kept the starting job until he went out with injury in the 8th game of the season. Mathis was not as effective when he returned later in the '09 season, and he was out of shape for the '10 season and did not deserve to start. Every team in the league watched the film on Mathis in 2010. If Alexander was stupid not to play him more in 2010 then every other O-line coach in the league was stupid also because NONE of them offered him more than a league minimum contract to be a back up in 2011. After the 2010 debacle Mathis even admitted he was out of shape and made a vcideo of him transforming his body over the off season. Facts are indeed facts. Alexander started Mathis ahead of Livings in 2009 when he deserved to. Livings was healthy and playing for weeks and only got the starting job back when Mathis got injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 16 hours ago, cwing said: I wont argue it as it’s be too long. Welcome back over here. Nice to see you in both places. Would like to see some of the others come back, too. Not a shot at the other board, whatsoever. I post there, too. Each has its own personality and its a win-win situation for all all around. That said, Fred is the board flame baiting troll. Some have him on ignore. Every time someone voices an opinion that is po-TAE-toe Fred responds with some meaningless statistics that say po-TAH-toe and its off to the races. Popcorn consumption has gone up ten fold since Fred has come out from under his bridge and become more active searching for billy goats. But, welcome back. P.S. No stats to prove it but I seem to recall Mathis was a head case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 It is possible to be "gone" and be "here" also, Harry. One mouse click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 My biggest beef with Alexander is how he refuses to play his best players. He insists on playing chumps like Oogie-boogie and Fisher when it is obvious there are better players on the roster. The o-line improvement at the end of this season is exhibit A. It got better with Eric Winston at RT. Let that sink in. Other examples include playing Guy-suck at center for all those years. He was abominable. Either Alexander is a shitty judge of talent or he doesn’t have the stones to not play high round picks when they aren’t cutting the mustard. Either way he makes the team worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, UncleEarl said: My biggest beef with Alexander is how he refuses to play his best players. He insists on playing chumps like Oogie-boogie and Fisher when it is obvious there are better players on the roster. The o-line improvement at the end of this season is exhibit A. It got better with Eric Winston at RT. Let that sink in. Other examples include playing Guy-suck at center for all those years. He was abominable. Either Alexander is a shitty judge of talent or he doesn’t have the stones to not play high round picks when they aren’t cutting the mustard. Either way he makes the team worse. The counter argument to what you say of course is the play of 5-time Pro Bowler Dennis Roland. At least Alexander got that one right "He's got great technique!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, High School Harry said: Welcome back over here. Nice to see you in both places. Would like to see some of the others come back, too. Not a shot at the other board, whatsoever. I post there, too. Each has its own personality and its a win-win situation for all all around. That said, Fred is the board flame baiting troll. Some have him on ignore. Every time someone voices an opinion that is po-TAE-toe Fred responds with some meaningless statistics that say po-TAH-toe and its off to the races. Popcorn consumption has gone up ten fold since Fred has come out from under his bridge and become more active searching for billy goats. But, welcome back. P.S. No stats to prove it but I seem to recall Mathis was a head case. What other board is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, UncleEarl said: My biggest beef with Alexander is how he refuses to play his best players. He insists on playing chumps like Oogie-boogie and Fisher when it is obvious there are better players on the roster. The o-line improvement at the end of this season is exhibit A. It got better with Eric Winston at RT. Let that sink in. Other examples include playing Guy-suck at center for all those years. He was abominable. We have seen what happens with Winston. He plays a couple of decent games then wears down and looks like crap. Plus our O-line was improving long befor Winston started playing in the 14th game. As for Ghiacuic he began the year as our starter for exactly two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 52 minutes ago, Le Tigre said: It is possible to be "gone" and be "here" also, Harry. One mouse click. Yeah, I do that, too. Just he hasn't been here for awhile and nice to have people return who have been absent for awhile. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Alexander should get credit for our team's great pass blocking for a few years there but don't NFL teams run the ball too? Our run game has been kind of shit for quite some time now and it seems to have been more because of the blocking than RB ability. I've been very tough on PA due to that alone. Good run blocking for only 2-3 out of the past 15 years should get him fired without even worrying about the whole "he started X over Y" arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said: Alexander should get credit for our team's great pass blocking for a few years there but don't NFL teams run the ball too? Our run game has been kind of shit for quite some time now and it seems to have been more because of the blocking than RB ability. I've been very tough on PA due to that alone. Good run blocking for only 2-3 out of the past 15 years should get him fired without even worrying about the whole "he started X over Y" arguments. Profootballoutsiders tries to rank O-lines run blocking by using a formula that gives the O-line more blame for losing yards on run plays and gives the RB more credit for yards gained more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage. The result is what they call "Adjusted Line Yards". They also judge O-line run blocking on "Power Success" which looks at 3rd and 4th down runs with 2 yards or less to go. Here are how the Bengals O-lines have ranked in those categories. .........ALY.......PS '17......24th....24th '16......14th....19th '15...... 1st.....13th '14.....11th..... 9th '13.....11th.....19th '12.....11th..... 5th '11.....20th.....25th '10.....18th.....28th '09.....26th..... 1st '08.....32nd....30th '07..... 9th...... 5th '06.....13th..... 5th '05..... 5th...... 8th '04.....21st.....20th '03.....19th.....27th '02.....13th..... 1st '01.....26th.....24th '00.....24th..... 6th '99.....13th.....20th '98.....21st.....23rd '97.....16th..... 4th '96.....24th..... 4th So 22 year totals.... Adjusted line yards.....average rank 16.9.....top half of league 11 times.....top ten 3 times Power.......................average rank 14.5.....top half of league 11 times.....top ten 10 times So very "middle of the pack". Definitely could use some improvement, but not as bad as when you look at some other stats. For example from '96 through '17 the Bengals rank just 18th in total rushing yards, 20th in rushing tds, and 23rd in yards per attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Bunghole said: What other board is this? That knowledge is not publicly available for us misfits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 ^^ I've never seen a person that's so excited to prove how mediocre players and coaches are in my life. Every single thread you open and see "I'm not saying X, Y, and Z are good, but they're not the absolute worst in the NFL every single year SO I GOTCHA!!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, omgdrdoom said: Alexander A short-yardage passing game built around 3-step drops should get credit for our team's great pass blocking for a few years there but don't NFL teams run the ball too? FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/29/2017 at 6:17 PM, New Jersey Bengal said: We need to Draft 2 tackles and a center and Price can play multiple positions along the O Line. I would draft him at 9 or 10 where we will be picking. He's worth it... yea... not really... many times fixing player X will also help player Y. interior linemen are deep in this draft it seems, so grabbing a C/G seems likely at some point.. but looks like we are pickin about 12th. the only way to get a great tackle is a top 10-15 pick. picking another tackle in the second or third depending where you think we pick a C/G there isnt shit worth picking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 40 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said: ^^ I've never seen a person that's so excited to prove how mediocre players and coaches are in my life. Every single thread you open and see "I'm not saying X, Y, and Z are good, but they're not the absolute worst in the NFL every single year SO I GOTCHA!!!!!" I have never seen a fan base that labels every player who is not top 5 at his position "garbage". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, fredtoast said: I have never seen a fan base that labels every player who is not top 5 at his position "garbage". But you're usually replying to someone like me who hasn't said that about the players or coaches in question. Sooooooooooooo, derp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 39 minutes ago, T-Dub said: FTFY Total fail. The entire NFL is devoted to a "quick passing game", and the Bengals throw the ball downfield as much as any other team in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said: But you're usually replying to someone like me who hasn't said that about the players or coaches in question. Sooooooooooooo, derp? I was responding to a guy who said "Our run game has been kind of shit for some time now" when in fact our O-line has finished top 11 in run blocking four of the last six years including FIRST in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Pro Football Reference stats state, League Rank in Rushing Yards 2017 - 31st 2016 - 13th 2015 - 13th 2014 - 6th 2013 -18th 2012 -18th 2011 - 19th 2010 - 27th That equals out to an average ranking for the last 8 years as 18th in the league... Yeah, our running game has sucked ass for quite a while. Facts and logic, the enemies of the troll my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostInDaJungle Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 hours ago, omgdrdoom said: Alexander should get credit for our team's great pass blocking for a few years there but don't NFL teams run the ball too? Our run game has been kind of shit for quite some time now and it seems to have been more because of the blocking than RB ability. I've been very tough on PA due to that alone. Good run blocking for only 2-3 out of the past 15 years should get him fired without even worrying about the whole "he started X over Y" arguments. Paul Alexander still gets credit for Corey Dillon/Willie Anderson. So, for a while there, he had a great running game, and even seemed to be able to do well no matter who was back there. (Rudi, Cedric...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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