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Bodine gone?

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59 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

I was responding to a guy who said "Our run game has been kind of shit for some time now" when in fact our O-line has  finished top 11 in run blocking four of the last six years including FIRST in 2015.

 

We didn't finish "top 11" all of those years except for some random statistic that FBO made up. USN posted rushing yards/game, here's another that may be relevant

 

TEAM YPC

2017 - 29th

2016 - 20th

2015 - 21st

2014 - 10th

2013 - 27th

2012 - 18th

2011 - 26th

2010 - 32nd

2009 - 19th

2008 - 30th

2007 - 28th

2006 - 25th

2005 - 9th

2004 - 14th

2003 - 14th

 

Our run game has been pretty weak and a lot of the blame absolutely has to go to Alexander for it. You're either going to have to admit that or else blame someone else who keeps drafting and not benching these awful running backs that can't figure out how to hit the holes in Alexander's amazing run schemes.

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9 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

We didn't finish "top 11" all of those years except for some random statistic that FBO made up. USN posted rushing yards/game, here's another that may be relevant

 

TEAM YPC

2017 - 29th

2016 - 20th

2015 - 21st

2014 - 10th

2013 - 27th

2012 - 18th

2011 - 26th

2010 - 32nd

2009 - 19th

2008 - 30th

2007 - 28th

2006 - 25th

2005 - 9th

2004 - 14th

2003 - 14th

 

Our run game has been pretty weak and a lot of the blame absolutely has to go to Alexander for it. You're either going to have to admit that or else blame someone else who keeps drafting and not benching these awful running backs that can't figure out how to hit the holes in Alexander's amazing run schemes.

Facts and logic, the enemies of the troll my friends.

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1 hour ago, USN Bengal said:

Pro Football Reference stats state,

 

League Rank in Rushing Yards

2017 - 31st

2016 - 13th

2015 - 13th

2014 - 6th

2013 -18th

2012 -18th

2011 - 19th

2010 - 27th

 

That equals out to an average ranking for the last 8 years as 18th in the league...

 

Yeah, our running game has sucked ass for quite a while.

 

Facts and logic, the enemies of the troll my friends.

Yes, the running game has struggled, but the question is how much of that is the blame of the O-line.  OMGDoom was specifically talking about blaming Alexander for the problems with our running game.  Profootballoutsiders attempted to separate out the blame and credit between the O=line blocking and the RBs by coming up with a formula that gave more of the blame for losses and stuffs to the O-line and more credit to the RBs for yards gained more than 10 yards downfield.

 

Basically the numbers you posted prove nothing about our O-line because we could have just had poor RBs instead of poor blocking.  All I was trying to do was have an educated discussion about the issue.  If we were just talking about the running game then I would agree it has been mostly substandard, but that was not what OMGDoom was doing.  He was specifically discussing the amount of blame the O-line coach deserves for our poor run game.

 

Understand now?

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45 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

 

Our run game has been pretty weak and a lot of the blame absolutely has to go to Alexander for it. You're either going to have to admit that or else blame someone else who keeps drafting and not benching these awful running backs that can't figure out how to hit the holes in Alexander's amazing run schemes.

 

Why does all of the blame have to be on Alexander?  Why can't poor RB play also be a problem?

 

How do you suggest we decide how much of the blame is on the O-line and how much on the RBs?

 

Did Rudi Johnson flourish when he left the Bengals?  How about Kenny Watson?  Or Cedric Benson? Or BenJarvis Green-Ellis?  If all of these guys were great RBs being held back by Alexanders poor O-lines then why did they not have much more success after they left the Bengals?  If IU am not mistaken every single one of those guys played for other NFL teams, but had their best seasons while with the Bengals.

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Just now, fredtoast said:

 

Why does all of the blame have to be on Alexander?  Why can't poor RB play also be a problem?

 

How do you suggest we decide how much of the blame is on the O-line and how much on the RBs?

Well first it would take someone genuinely wanting to discuss this without creating a strawman every 5 minutes. I didn't say ALL of the blame, I said "a lot" of the blame.

 

The reason I say a lot of the blame goes to Alexander is because we've been top 10 in YPC TWO times in 15 years. We've been among the worst in the league in almost half of those years. There have been many running backs, many linemen, a few OCs, but only 1 line coach. Therefore, I feel that Alexander needs to take a lot of the blame for our mediocre or worse run game of the past decade+. I do think we've seen questionable RB play at times and we've seen some piss poor linemen too.

 

I'm not saying it's 100% on Alexander but he certainly hasn't put together a consistently GOOD run blocking line for quite some time. I don't think anyone that watches this team could argue with that statement at least.

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I think there are plenty of reasons to dislike PA.  Probably the main one would be his general attitude, as if he is beyond reproach and no one can question his decisions.  Some might call it arrogant.  He also has a knee jerk tendency to defend his players even when they clearly are not performing.  I think PA deserves the lions share of the blame for failing to develop a long term solution at center, which has been a weakness since Braham's career ending bone bruise.  I also think his success with high picks (1st or 2nd round) is as much on the players as it is on him.  In other words, Willie, Whit, etc. probably would have been good no matter where they went.  In the end, he has been here forever and been part of the longest playoff winless drought in the league.  Not everything is his fault but it feels like time for him to go.

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This idea that NFL assistant coaches are coaching up 1st round picks to greatness is ridiculous. These guys have been playing football for most of their entire lives, with the restrictions on time the players can be in the facility and practice time most of these coaches don't have that much influence on these players. If you are talking about a guy that barely played football before they were drafted, like Stacey Andrews or Margus Hunt, then you might have a point; but crediting an NFL coach for AJ Green, Carlos Dunlap, or Andrew Whitworth's success isn't accurate. Those guys are good players that would be successful with any team because they have undeniable talent, no amount of coaching can create talent at this level.

 

If NFL coaches are so awesome then why did Dalton have to go see Tom House to learn how to throw the deep pass or why does House even have a clientele of NFL QB's? 

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18 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

It is possible to be "gone" and be "here" also, Harry. One mouse click. 

 

  

Are you proposing a "Schrodinger's Center" scenario?

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2 hours ago, snarkster said:

Are you proposing a "Schrodinger's Center" scenario?

 

Hey maybe? Alexander already gave us Schrodinger's guard & tackle at various times.  Who is that at LT?  You don't know until Dalton takes the sack! Who cares if it loses us games, they need to evaluate players.  The important thing here is to avoid making a decision and being held responsible for anything.

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On 1/3/2018 at 3:24 AM, PatternMaster said:

This idea that NFL assistant coaches are coaching up 1st round picks to greatness is ridiculous. These guys have been playing football for most of their entire lives, with the restrictions on time the players can be in the facility and practice time most of these coaches don't have that much influence on these players. If you are talking about a guy that barely played football before they were drafted, like Stacey Andrews or Margus Hunt, then you might have a point; but crediting an NFL coach for AJ Green, Carlos Dunlap, or Andrew Whitworth's success isn't accurate. Those guys are good players that would be successful with any team because they have undeniable talent, no amount of coaching can create talent at this level.

 

This makes no sense because there are lots of First round picks that flop.

 

How else can you judge a coach except by how many of his players fail or succeed?

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On 1/3/2018 at 3:24 AM, PatternMaster said:

If NFL coaches are so awesome then why did Dalton have to go see Tom House to learn how to throw the deep pass or why does House even have a clientele of NFL QB's? 

Dalton did not have to go to House to learn how to throw a deep pass.  His overall production went up because he started getting some more receiving weapons in '14, but I don't think the efficiency of his deep passes was really that much better.

 

As far as I know Dalton did not work with House until after the '13 season.  Here are Andy's numbers on passes thrown more than 20 yards past the line of scrimmage.

 

.........att.....rating

'13.....67.....93.3

'14.....43.....82.1

'15.....51.....91.7

 

He not only attempted more deep passes in '13 he was also more efficient.

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