Jason Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: Marvin getting more control isnt going to make his lack of half-time adjustments go away, that has been the single biggest problem this year outside of bad oline play. I didn't say it would. And I agree those things need to get better. My concern is will a new coach set how the team is run back 15 years? I don't know, but because of that I have mixed feelings about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, Jason said: I didn't say it would. And I agree those things need to get better. My concern is will a new coach set how the team is run back 15 years? I don't know, but because of that I have mixed feelings about it. I doubt it, the changes Marvin got back a few years ago seemed to have helped with the areas of concern he had, I would doubt Mike Brown is so headstrong that he would roll back changes that have proven results, because a new coach came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|OneHeartBeat| Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 hours ago, omgdrdoom said: What CAN we blame on the HC then? If you can't blame all of this stuff on the HC, why would we be one of the worst teams in the league if we switch coaches? I mean, then you could just list 100 things that aren't the new guy's fault instead of Marvin. I just don't get it. What makes a coach "good"? Every single time someone points out a fault in the team, someone else lets them know that it isn't Marvin's fault. So what are things that Marvin does that we're allowed to blame on him? Player issues have to fall on the coaching staff just like they do on every other team in every sport in existence because that's just how things work. We could look at everything that happens negatively regarding the Bengals and point out how technicalllyyyy that wasn't Marvin's fault, but then that would be really fuckin' silly. I don't hold him completely blameless. I just think there are too many variables to place all the blame on Marvin and blow the whole thing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: Marvin getting more control isnt going to make his lack of half-time adjustments go away, that has been the single biggest problem this year outside of bad oline play. This "no adjustments" myth is getting ridiculous. This year we won more games (3) that we did not lead at halftime than games we lost when we did lead at halftime (2). So how the hell could lack of halftime adjustments be the biggest problem when we have more comeback wins than blown leads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, OneHeartBeat said: I don't hold him completely blameless. I just think there are too many variables to place all the blame on Marvin and blow the whole thing up. I guess I just don't see how people think replacing the HC is a huge deal whenever you give a laundry list of issues that we can't solve regardless of who our HC is. If we can barely blame the guy for anything, what does it matter who we have coaching? I completely understood the whole "hey now, let's not just blow it all up quite yet" argument in Marvin's 3rd year, and his 7th, and his 10th, and his 12th, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. How much longer are we going to do this shit? I don't think Marvin Lewis is the cause for all of the team's problems, but outside of the entire Brown family deciding to call it quits, what other BIG changes can we make to possibly field a winning football team? An overhaul to the coaching staff would probably make the most sense right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|OneHeartBeat| Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, omgdrdoom said: I guess I just don't see how people think replacing the HC is a huge deal whenever you give a laundry list of issues that we can't solve regardless of who our HC is. If we can barely blame the guy for anything, what does it matter who we have coaching? I completely understood the whole "hey now, let's not just blow it all up quite yet" argument in Marvin's 3rd year, and his 7th, and his 10th, and his 12th, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. How much longer are we going to do this shit? I don't think Marvin Lewis is the cause for all of the team's problems, but outside of the entire Brown family deciding to call it quits, what other BIG changes can we make to possibly field a winning football team? An overhaul to the coaching staff would probably make the most sense right now. If we were a 0,1,2,3 win team, then I would agree with you on blowing it up. I fear a new coach will have to earn MB's trust, and everyone will be clamoring for said coach to be fired by the time that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, fredtoast said: This "no adjustments" myth is getting ridiculous. This year we won more games (3) that we did not lead at halftime than games we lost when we did lead at halftime (2). So how the hell could lack of halftime adjustments be the biggest problem when we have more comeback wins than blown leads? I didn't say it was the biggest, I said it was the biggest outside of having bad oline play. We are the 2nd worst team in terms of points in the 2nd half in the league. I really hope you believe what you just posted and aren't just being disingenuous. Otherwise I might be inclined to think that you do just like picking fights. Here you go - https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/2nd-half-points-per-game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, fredtoast said: This "no adjustments" myth is getting ridiculous. This year we won more games (3) that we did not lead at halftime than games we lost when we did lead at halftime (2). So how the hell could lack of halftime adjustments be the biggest problem when we have more comeback wins than blown leads? We have 10 of 16 games where we didn't score more than 7 points in the entire 2nd half of games. Only 1 team averages less 2nd half points than us this year. There are teams that double our average. NYG, Indy, Cleveland, Chicago...those are the other teams around us at the bottom...great company there. We scored 20 and 14 in the last 2 completely meaningless games of the year. Yes those games count, but imagine our average without those added in. Those were the exceptions, not what we were used to seeing all year. You can spin the blame all you want. That's on coaching 100% and even if the players weren't executing, it still falls on the shoulders of the HC. That's how sports work anywhere but here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDingleDangle Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said: We have 10 of 16 games where we didn't score more than 7 points in the entire 2nd half of games. Only 1 team averages less 2nd half points than us this year. There are teams that double our average. NYG, Indy, Cleveland, Chicago...those are the other teams around us at the bottom...great company there. We scored 20 and 14 in the last 2 completely meaningless games of the year. Yes those games count, but imagine our average without those added in. Those were the exceptions, not what we were used to seeing all year. You can spin the blame all you want. That's on coaching 100% and even if the players weren't executing, it still falls on the shoulders of the HC. That's how sports work anywhere but here. I would say its more "bad halftime adjustments" rather than no halftime adjustments. up by 3 and have had success passing, lets play conservative? first have averaging 4+ yards a carry? abandon the run! (if i remember correctly this happened in at least 2 of the playoff games) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: I didn't say it was the biggest, I said it was the biggest outside of having bad oline play. We are the 2nd worst team in terms of points in the 2nd half in the league. I really hope you believe what you just posted and aren't just being disingenuous. Otherwise I might be inclined to think that you do just like picking fights. Here you go - https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/2nd-half-points-per-game But we only led 6 games at halftime, and 3 of our 7 wins came in games where we did not lead at halftime while only 2 of our 9 losses came in games where we blew a halftime lead. So I don't think halftime adjustments were anywhere near the biggest problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, fredtoast said: But we only led 6 games at halftime, and 3 of our 7 wins came in games where we did not lead at halftime. So I don't think halftime adjustments were anywhere near the biggest problem. We are also worst in the league at 2nd half time of possession https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/2nd-half-time-of-possession-share-pct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, MrDingleDangle said: up by 3 and have had success passing, lets play conservative? I have addressed this before. No one has ever been able to give me a single example of a game the Bengals lost due to playing too conservative with a lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: We are also worst in the league at 2nd half time of possession https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/2nd-half-time-of-possession-share-pct And also dead last in time of possession for THE ENTIRE GAME. How the hell is that a "halftime adjustments" issue when we rank 30th in time of possession for the first half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, fredtoast said: But we only led 6 games at halftime, and 3 of our 7 wins came in games where we did not lead at halftime while only 2 of our 9 losses came in games where we blew a halftime lead. So I don't think halftime adjustments were anywhere near the biggest problem. This isn't really determined by blowing leads. It's pretty simple if you're looking to discuss instead of start a fight. If you're down 13-7 at halftime, do you think "good adjustments" would be scoring 0 points in the 2nd half or scoring more than 0 points in the 2nd half? There's more to it than your random, irrelevant statistics. We could have won more games with better 2nd halves, but we played historically bad 2nd half football for 10+ of our 16 games. I'm not even trying to say it's 100% Marvin's fault, but doesn't that blame fall on the head coach of a professional sports team when that kinda shit happens? Isn't that how it works to anyone but you and Mike Brown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, fredtoast said: And also dead last in time of possession for THE ENTIRE GAME. How the hell is that a "halftime adjustments" issue when we rank 30th in time of possession for the first half? 30th to 32nd from 1st to 2nd half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Jason said: Here is my question. Let's say Marvin returns but gets more changes that he wants because Mike knows, likes, and trusts him. That is option A. Or Mike and Marvin "part ways", and a new external coach is hired. But Mike doesn't know him as well or trust him as much, and as such retakes at least some control of the team. That's option B. If those are the only options, which would you chose? Now, I suppose it is possible that Mike could hire a new coach and give him the same control Marvin has. But can we be sure? It took Marvin a while to get some of those things in place. Can we be sure they will stay in place under the new coach? So if the choices are A and B, which would you pick? Any new coach worth his salt in being hired into this situation is going to understand what he's up against and demand a certain amount of autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 39 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: I didn't say it was the biggest, I said it was the biggest outside of having bad oline play. We are the 2nd worst team in terms of points in the 2nd half in the league. I really hope you believe what you just posted and aren't just being disingenuous. Otherwise I might be inclined to think that you do just like picking fights. Here you go - https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/2nd-half-points-per-game You spelled "disingenuous" correctly. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bunghole said: You spelled "disingenuous" correctly. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said: This isn't really determined by blowing leads. It's pretty simple if you're looking to discuss instead of start a fight. If you're down 13-7 at halftime, do you think "good adjustments" would be scoring 0 points in the 2nd half or scoring more than 0 points in the 2nd half? There's more to it than your random, irrelevant statistics. We could have won more games with better 2nd halves, but we played historically bad 2nd half football for 10+ of our 16 games. I'm not even trying to say it's 100% Marvin's fault, but doesn't that blame fall on the head coach of a professional sports team when that kinda shit happens? Isn't that how it works to anyone but you and Mike Brown? If you are behind in most of your games at halftime then "halftime adjustments" are not the problem. Against both the Titans and Texans we played them even in the second half after being outscored in the first half. So we improved at halftime and played better in the second half compared to the first. But what good did that do us? We still lost. Calling my stats "irrelevant" just because they prove you wrong is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: 30th to 32nd from 1st to 2nd half. Yeah, once we fix our "halftime adjustment" problem and get all the way up to 30th in the second half everything will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, fredtoast said: Yeah, once we fix our "halftime adjustment" problem and get all the way up to 30th in the second half everything will be fine. Who said anything about fine? I would suggest that we might have actually won a few more games, specifically thinking Green Bay and the 2nd Pittsburgh game....then we go from 7-9 to 9-7 and in the playoffs Carry on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, fredtoast said: If you are behind in most of your games at halftime then "halftime adjustments" are not the problem. Against both the Titans and Texans we played them even in the second half after being outscored in the first half. So we improved at halftime and played better in the second half compared to the first. But what good did that do us? We still lost. Calling my stats "irrelevant" just because they prove you wrong is ridiculous. But those stats didn't prove it "wrong" because it's an opinion that literally can't be proven to be "wrong". Blowing a halftime lead is just 1 part of the argument here yet you're hyper-focused on the stats that you believe are proving you "right". Again I'll ask, if you're down 13-7 in the first half, do you think scoring 0 points in the 2nd half to continue losing or maybe scoring more points would be better "adjustments"??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Jamie_B said: Who said anything about fine? I would suggest that we might have actually won a few more games, specifically thinking Green Bay and the 2nd Pittsburgh game....then we go from 7-9 to 9-7 and in the playoffs Carry on though. Or maybe we score more than 0 points in the 2nd half against teams like Jacksonville and have even more wins. Isn't it a crazy concept? But nah, we only lost 1 game where Marvin ate a Butterfingers instead of a Snickers at halftime, therefore Fred is "RIGHT"!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, omgdrdoom said: Or maybe we score more than 0 points in the 2nd half against teams like Jacksonville and have even more wins. Isn't it a crazy concept? But nah, we only lost 1 game where Marvin ate a Butterfingers instead of a Snickers at halftime, therefore Fred is "RIGHT"!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Jamie_B said: Who said anything about fine? I would suggest that we might have actually won a few more games, specifically thinking Green Bay and the 2nd Pittsburgh game....then we go from 7-9 to 9-7 and in the playoffs Carry on though. And I am suggesting that we might have won a few more games if we had led at halftime in more than 6 of our games. If we had blown a bunch of halftime leads then I would agree that halftime adjustments were a problem. If we had not won any games that we did not lead at halftime then I might question our halftime adjustments. Butb the fact is we won more games that we did not lead at halftime (3) than games we lost when leading at halftime (2). But carry on with the "no adjustments" myth. Soem people said it on a message board so it has to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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