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chezaugie

Marv may have just saved his job!

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15 minutes ago, Bunghole said:

What's up, man? How's Sunman and your Pantera records treating you these days?

Just came out of lurker retirement! Sunman is a distant memory thank god, and that baby in my avatar is a third grader! How have you been?

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20 minutes ago, Farbeyonddriven said:

Just came out of lurker retirement! Sunman is a distant memory thank god, and that baby in my avatar is a third grader! How have you been?

I'm good. Man you ain't shittin' about how fast kids grow up. My oldest is now 16 and a sophomore at EC and my youngest is 12 and in sixth grade at the SD Middle School. Where are you living these days? And I'm glad you came out of lurker retirement, we have too few Hoosiers on this board as it is!

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7 minutes ago, Bunghole said:

I'm good. Man you ain't shittin' about how fast kids grow up. My oldest is now 16 and a sophomore at EC and my youngest is 12 and in sixth grade at the SD Middle School. Where are you living these days? And I'm glad you came out of lurker retirement, we have too few Hoosiers on this board as it is!

I'm put in Dillsboro now and I love it!

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1 minute ago, Farbeyonddriven said:

I'm put in Dillsboro now and I love it!

Shit bro, you're not far from me at all. I moved out of Hidden Valley after I lost my house and now live in Bright. I'm glad you like it. Just about anywhere around here is an improvement over Sunman, except maybe Milan and Manchester. Sunman is a shithole full of racist, Trump-loving rednecks and sad-sack drunks and drug addicts.

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3 hours ago, Bunghole said:

YOU NEED TO SEE YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT UPPING THE DOSAGE ON YOUR MEDS.

Griever, I get your point but what is it you have to do in order to advance to the Superbowl in the first place? Exactly. You don't get to hopscotch over games, pass Go, collect $200 and go straight to the big dance.

Yes, I definitely understand that going to the playoffs is necessary to win a super bowl, but then I read things like this...

 

"If I'm here, we're going to do everything in my power to be world champions," Lewis said. "That's what my job is and nothing short of that is acceptable."

 

Lewis's words right there. It hasnt been "acceptable" for 15 years now??...its just frustrating

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4 hours ago, Bengallifer18 said:

I had mentioned in the Coaching Carousel thread, that if the Bengals beat baltimore, Marvin will be back. I was told to shut my mouth. Looks like the way things are going I was right. 

 

He wasn't going anywhere either way.

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5 hours ago, SF2 said:

You were told to shut your dirty whore mouth you dirty whore. 

No, that one was me. 

And I didn't take it all that personally because it was a statement of frustration rather

than support.

Kind of like when the captain of the Titanic saw the iceberg and said "we're in deep shit".

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3 hours ago, westside bengal said:

The problem is that the Front Office doesnt mismanage the clock.  The Front Office doesnt say "its not our job to motivate players."

 

 

 

Yes, they do.  Yoo hoo, Troy.  Its almost time for lunch.

Run along and get Katie a tofu and kale salad and a double chocolate caramel latte like a good boy.

And Marcus, your daddy is running about a quart low on bullshit, can you run down to the stock yard

and get him an extra drum or two?  We aren't paying you for nothing.  Well, almost.  Its in daddy's

contract and all.

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It sounds to me like he is asking for greater control,  which would have been exciting news 5-10 years ago.   It could mean he gets to fire Alexander but that's not going to solve everything.  It's going to take a lot more than that to air out the smell of all that day-old Frisch's breakfast bar ham in Mikey's pockets.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

It sounds to me like he is asking for greater control,  which would have been exciting news 5-10 years ago.   It could mean he gets to fire Alexander but that's not going to solve everything.  It's going to take a lot more than that to air out the smell of all that day-old Frisch's breakfast bar ham in Mikey's pockets.

What do you think Mike pays Alexander with...actual money? LOL!

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If Marv does stay, would it be fair to blame the NFL for lifting the blackout rule?  What other reason did Big Chief Skips-a-Generation have for caring what the fans think? He's free to do all the redeeming he likes & the team will stay profitable due to shared TV money and NFL subsidies.  Even if the stadium were completely empty on Sundays he would say it's because the county needs to build him a new one or he's moving the team to Portland.

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14 hours ago, Hooky said:

He wasn't going anywhere either way.

Have to give you credit Hook, you've said this all along.  Looks like you nailed it.

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Just now, schotzee said:

Have to give you credit Hook, you've said this all along.  Looks like you nailed it.

 

I don't see why people would think otherwise. I don't care if there's 1,000 midseason reports about him leaving, I don't believe Marvin is gone until I see it actually happen and I feel bad for the people who got so excited thinking he was surely going to be gone.

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6 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

I don't see why people would think otherwise. I don't care if there's 1,000 midseason reports about him leaving, I don't believe Marvin is gone until I see it actually happen and I feel bad for the people who got so excited thinking he was surely going to be gone.

This is true. I didn't really get excited about it bc I had zero confidence they would bring someone in potentially better.

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I guess I'm in the minority here. I hope he does come back. Some of the comments here are just silly. No team is able to keep all of it's FA's in a salary cap league. IIRCC, Marvin at one time was convinced that Whit was coming back, but the contract offered by the Rams was too high for a 35 year old and Marvin was disappointed that he left. That's not Marvin's fault.  Jones wanted an opportunity to be "the guy" somewhere else. That's not Marvin's fault. Sanu wanted a bigger role here, but we were loaded at WR. That's not Marvin's fault. Zeitler wanted too much money for a guard. He took the paycheck to be on an 0-16 team. That's not Marvin's fault. Eifert can't stay healthy. That's not Marvin's fault. The team obviously missed on drafting Ced and Fisher, but every team misses. I know we're 0-7 in the playoffs, but I'd rather get there and lose, then not get there at all. Improve the oline, upgrade LB's and start drafting to rebuild the dline. Blowing the whole thing up would make us one of the worst teams in the league again IMO.

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5 minutes ago, OneHeartBeat said:

I guess I'm in the minority here. I hope he does come back. Some of the comments here are just silly. No team is able to keep all of it's FA's in a salary cap league. IIRCC, Marvin at one time was convinced that Whit was coming back, but the contract offered by the Rams was too high for a 35 year old and Marvin was disappointed that he left. That's not Marvin's fault.  Jones wanted an opportunity to be "the guy" somewhere else. That's not Marvin's fault. Sanu wanted a bigger role here, but we were loaded at WR. That's not Marvin's fault. Zeitler wanted too much money for a guard. He took the paycheck to be on an 0-16 team. That's not Marvin's fault. Eifert can't stay healthy. That's not Marvin's fault. The team obviously missed on drafting Ced and Fisher, but every team misses. I know we're 0-7 in the playoffs, but I'd rather get there and lose, then not get there at all. Improve the oline, upgrade LB's and start drafting to rebuild the dline. Blowing the whole thing up would make us one of the worst teams in the league again IMO.

 

What CAN we blame on the HC then?

 

If you can't blame all of this stuff on the HC, why would we be one of the worst teams in the league if we switch coaches? I mean, then you could just list 100 things that aren't the new guy's fault instead of Marvin.

 

I just don't get it. What makes a coach "good"? Every single time someone points out a fault in the team, someone else lets them know that it isn't Marvin's fault. So what are things that Marvin does that we're allowed to blame on him? Player issues have to fall on the coaching staff just like they do on every other team in every sport in existence because that's just how things work.

 

We could look at everything that happens negatively regarding the Bengals and point out how technicalllyyyy that wasn't Marvin's fault, but then that would be really fuckin' silly.

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24 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

I don't see why people would think otherwise. I don't care if there's 1,000 midseason reports about him leaving, I don't believe Marvin is gone until I see it actually happen and I feel bad for the people who got so excited thinking he was surely going to be gone.

I'm sure a lot of them were just believing what they want to happen. I wanted to believe it too, but I've been burnt before.

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18 minutes ago, OneHeartBeat said:

I guess I'm in the minority here. I hope he does come back. Some of the comments here are just silly. No team is able to keep all of it's FA's in a salary cap league. IIRCC, Marvin at one time was convinced that Whit was coming back, but the contract offered by the Rams was too high for a 35 year old and Marvin was disappointed that he left. That's not Marvin's fault.  Jones wanted an opportunity to be "the guy" somewhere else. That's not Marvin's fault. Sanu wanted a bigger role here, but we were loaded at WR. That's not Marvin's fault. Zeitler wanted too much money for a guard. He took the paycheck to be on an 0-16 team. That's not Marvin's fault. Eifert can't stay healthy. That's not Marvin's fault. The team obviously missed on drafting Ced and Fisher, but every team misses. I know we're 0-7 in the playoffs, but I'd rather get there and lose, then not get there at all. Improve the oline, upgrade LB's and start drafting to rebuild the dline. Blowing the whole thing up would make us one of the worst teams in the league again IMO.

Well, you list all the things that aren't Marvin's fault, but I would offer you even more reasons why Marvin might be better in the FO than a game day coach:

- Poor game day management, using time outs like they were Candy passed out on Halloween. Totally Marvin's fault.

- Player discipline ON the field. He can't control what they do off the field, but the repeated breakdowns in player discipline on the field are his fault. As a HC, it's his job to reign that in.

- Lack of half time adjustments and in game management. Marvin certainly projects lethargy during games, he lets things run their course rather than adjusting. That includes showing a bit of emotion when things don't go right. Whether it's just perception and not reality, as a HC you have to show you care to both your players AND your fans. I've seen a downward spiral where it seems the "energy" just isn't there anymore. Again, Marvin's fault.

- Conservative nature - protecting instead of taking risks. I think this is his biggest flaws - he aims to protect what he has and knows (lead in games, veterans, coaches, plays) rather than taking risks. I think he is so risk averse that it hinders the development of this team and the ability to adjust where needed. Letting younger, high potential players play more instead of relying on vets that clearly aren't performing has been a constant theme in the last few years. Being overly conservative is all on Marvin. 

- I'm also not totally convinced that letting Whit and Zeitler go weren't Marvin's fault. What if Whit and Zeitler just didn't see enough perspective with Marvin at the helm (besides taking the money?). Yeah, I know Zeitler ended up on a shitty team, but I bet his decision to go there was not purely money as I'm guessing he could have had the same kind of money on other teams besides the Browns.

 

So, I say, it can't get any better, so why not take the risk and try a new approach. As one says, sometimes you gotta take 1 step back to go 2 steps forward. 

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29 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

What CAN we blame on the HC then?

 

If you can't blame all of this stuff on the HC, why would we be one of the worst teams in the league if we switch coaches? I mean, then you could just list 100 things that aren't the new guy's fault instead of Marvin.

 

I just don't get it. What makes a coach "good"? Every single time someone points out a fault in the team, someone else lets them know that it isn't Marvin's fault. So what are things that Marvin does that we're allowed to blame on him? Player issues have to fall on the coaching staff just like they do on every other team in every sport in existence because that's just how things work.

 

We could look at everything that happens negatively regarding the Bengals and point out how technicalllyyyy that wasn't Marvin's fault, but then that would be really fuckin' silly.

 

By claiming that the players can not be blamed for anything you are being just as "extreme" as the people claiming that nothing is Marvin's fault.

 

Here is the way I see it.  Marvin has been coaching with a handicap compared to all the other coaches in the league.  Our front office is the worst when it comes to addressing free agency.  I actually agree with our front office that it is not wise to build a team through free agency or to go out and sign the most expensive free agents, but most years they refuse to even sign a single "B list" free agent when we have a big hole or two to fill.  Overall it is smart to be conservative in free agency, but when you have a team that is close to championship caliber you have to step up and sign at least a solid starter when you need one.

 

At the same time I do not absolve Marvin of all blame.  He struggles with clock management even after 15 years as a head coach, but I don't know how many losses can actually be blamed on this.  His teams seem to fold under pressure, but it is hard to tell if that is on the coaches or players because it is not like there have been a bunch of ex-Bengals who suddenly became clutch performers with other teams.  The claims that he is "too conservative with a lead" are bullshit because no one has ever been able to point to a single game he lost because of this.  Same with the claim that he can't make "in game adjustments" because the Bengals have been one of the best "come from behind" teams in the league under Marvin.

 

But even though it is hard to define exactly how much blame to lay on Marvin the fact is that he has been given 15 years and has not produced a single playoff win.  His teams were not favored to win many of those postseason games, but in many cases they did not just lose, they got blown out.

 

So while I will defend Marvin against a lot of claims against his coaching I still think he has to go.  I like the guy, but he has had his chance.  Fifteen years is enough for anyone who has not won a playoff game.  Especially after back-to-back losing seasons.

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20 hours ago, Bunghole said:

YOU NEED TO SEE YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT UPPING THE DOSAGE ON YOUR MEDS.

 

BRING HIM BACK!!!  BRING HIM BACK!!!  

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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

 

By claiming that the players can not be blamed for anything you are being just as "extreme" as the people claiming that nothing is Marvin's fault.

 

Here is the way I see it.  Marvin has been coaching with a handicap compared to all the other coaches in the league.  Our front office is the worst when it comes to addressing free agency.  I actually agree with our front office that it is not wise to build a team through free agency or to go out and sign the most expensive free agents, but most years they refuse to even sign a single "B list" free agent when we have a big hole or two to fill.  Overall it is smart to be conservative in free agency, but when you have a team that is close to championship caliber you have to step up and sign at least a solid starter when you need one.

 

At the same time I do not absolve Marvin of all blame.  He struggles with clock management even after 15 years as a head coach, but I don't know how many losses can actually be blamed on this.  His teams seem to fold under pressure, but it is hard to tell if that is on the coaches or players because it is not like there have been a bunch of ex-Bengals who suddenly became clutch performers with other teams.  The claims that he is "too conservative with a lead" are bullshit because no one has ever been able to point to a single game he lost because of this.  Same with the claim that he can't make "in game adjustments" because the Bengals have been one of the best "come from behind" teams in the league under Marvin.

 

But even though it is hard to define exactly how much blame to lay on Marvin the fact is that he has been given 15 years and has not produced a single playoff win.  His teams were not favored to win many of those postseason games, but in many cases they did not just lose, they got blown out.

 

So while I will defend Marvin against a lot of claims against his coaching I still think he has to go.  I like the guy, but he has had his chance.  Fifteen years is enough for anyone who has not won a playoff game.  Especially after back-to-back losing seasons.

I blame his end of the half issues (not going for points, giving up points) for a lot of issues related to losing. 

 

I just can’t recall as a fan feeling like this team goes into the half with momentum ever. 

 

I think Marvin just really struggles with understanding momentum. It’s a real thing in sports and I feel like he never knows where it is and where it’s going at any point in time of a ballgame. 

 

Hes so stoic out there and it’s like he thinks everyone else out there is just like him. There are dynamics to the game that he never seems to grasp. 

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Here is my question.  Let's say Marvin returns but gets more changes that he wants because Mike knows, likes, and trusts him.  That is option A.

 

Or Mike and Marvin "part ways", and a new external coach is hired.  But Mike doesn't know him as well or trust him as much, and as such retakes at least some control of the team.  That's option B.

 

If those are the only options, which would you chose?

 

Now, I suppose it is possible that Mike could hire a new coach and give him the same control Marvin has.  But can we be sure?  It took Marvin a while to get some of those things in place.  Can we be sure they will stay in place under the new coach?

 

So if the choices are A and B, which would you pick?

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Marvin getting more control isnt going to make his lack of half-time adjustments go away, that has been the single biggest problem this year outside of bad oline play.

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