Coaching Staff Changes

[UncleEarl]

On 1/6/2018 at 5:41 PM, T-Dub said:

 

 

As an aside, I can't believe both of these teams were better than we were.  AFC was sorry as shit this year apparently. 

If you thought that game was bad how about Buffalo @ Jacksonville!?!  OMG that was horrible. 

[New Jersey Bengal]

Ian Rapoport

 

✔@RapSheet

 

Sources: The #Bengals are in negotiations to make former #Lions DC Teryl Austin their new defensive coordinator. Not done yet, but headed that way.

9:53 PM - Jan 7, 2018

 

 

 

 

 

Ian Rapoport

 

✔@RapSheet

 

Austin is still alive for the #Lions HC job at this point. Absent that, he’s likely headed to Cincy. https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/950198771656331265 …

10:06 PM - Jan 7, 2018

[bigboi]

Looks like Austin is close to signing a deal to be the defensive coordinator in cincinnati. 

 

[esjbh2]

Bengals in negotiations to hire Lions DC Teryl Austin

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000904178/article/bengals-in-negotiations-to-hire-teryl-austin-as-dc

[MichaelWeston]

Matt Patricia has momentum to Detroit. Seems like a good fit 

[|schotzee|]

4 hours ago, esjbh2 said:

Bengals in negotiations to hire Lions DC Teryl Austin

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000904178/article/bengals-in-negotiations-to-hire-teryl-austin-as-dc

Regressed statically over his 4 years from 2,to 18 to 18 to 27?? Tell me again why he will make a good DC for us?? 

 

Not a direct question to you esjbh2. 

[|schotzee|]

1 hour ago, schotzee said:

Regressed statically over his 4 years from 2,to 18 to 18 to 27?? Tell me again why he will make a good DC for us?? 

 

Not a direct question to you esjbh2. 

To answer my own question a little, after a little more reading, looks like his defensives are usually pretty good at creating turnovers...

[Jason]

1 hour ago, schotzee said:

To answer my own question a little, after a little more reading, looks like his defensives are usually pretty good at creating turnovers...

They also had injury issues, at least this year.

[Madieu Superstar]

Meh. I’d rather have Fangio.

[omgdrdoom]

2 hours ago, schotzee said:

To answer my own question a little, after a little more reading, looks like his defensives are usually pretty good at creating turnovers...

A good DC still needs some good players. I would have rather had a couple other guys but I'm willing to give Austin a shot here. I'm not going to dig back into what the guy did 15 years ago but before the Lions DC he was the Ravens secondary coach for a few years.

 

In 2011, Baltimore's defense was #4 in passing yards per game, #1 in pass TDs (11 which is very, very low for a full season), and #1 in passer rating against

In 2012, #17 in passing yards but T-#2 for pass TDs with 15, #11 in passer rating against. They also won the SB this year

In 2013, #12 in passing yards, T-#14 with a bunch of other teams giving up 25 passing TDs, and #11 in passer rating against

 

So again a little regression here, but their defense also went from Ed Reed and Bernard Pollard as the safeties to James Ihedigbo and rookie Matt Elam in 2013.

 

The bad news, they were the #14, #9, and #1 penalized defense in the league during his stint there as secondary coach. Lions were #23, #29, #4, #11 penalized defense from 2014 - 2017 (in chronological order) when he was their DC. His defenses have also given up some of the highest yards per play in the NFL over the past 2 seasons.

 

I'll end with a little bit more good news. His secondaries know how to play the fucking football. Lardarius Webb, Cary Williams, Ed Reed, Glover Quin, Darius Slay have all been among the best in the NFL in PDs in the various years he was the secondary coach in Balt and DC in Detroit.

 

I won't give him 100% of the credit or blame for this stuff, but it's random things I've found while looking into his resume. If there's 1 thing to be excited about it's what he could do with our secondary. Iloka looked like a borderline elite safety the 1 year he played the ball over the big hit, Dre Kirk had a great 2016 before a mediocre or worse 2017, maybe Austin can get their heads straightened out.

[membengal]

3 hours ago, schotzee said:

Regressed statically over his 4 years from 2,to 18 to 18 to 27?? Tell me again why he will make a good DC for us?? 

 

Not a direct question to you esjbh2. 

They were really hurt in 2017. Before that, they were really good against the run, I think. He has gotten head coaching interviews in past few years so I am guessing he is pretty well respected, and what really makes me ok if he's the guy is Green Bay had him in to talk about their DC opening. Given that they played against his defenses twice a year, if they were/are considering him, then I am okay with him coming here. More talent for him to work with here, on balance - but if he wants to bring Ziggy Ansah with him in free agency, I am super okay with that...

 

Also, I wasn't the world's biggest Guenther fan. 

[Madieu Superstar]

17 minutes ago, membengal said:

They were really hurt in 2017. Before that, they were really good against the run, I think. He has gotten head coaching interviews in past few years so I am guessing he is pretty well respected, and what really makes me ok if he's the guy is Green Bay had him in to talk about their DC opening. Given that they played against his defenses twice a year, if they were/are considering him, then I am okay with him coming here. More talent for him to work with here, on balance - but if he wants to bring Ziggy Ansah with him in free agency, I am super okay with that...

 

Also, I wasn't the world's biggest Guenther fan. 

Can’t speak to him as a defensive coordinator, but getting head coaching interviews doesn’t mean that much to me. After all, Vance Joseph got them. 

[omgdrdoom]

19 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said:

Can’t speak to him as a defensive coordinator, but getting head coaching interviews doesn’t mean that much to me. After all, Vance Joseph got them. 

That's an illogical way of presenting that argument though. Vance got HC interviews for being good at his prior job, not because it was guaranteed he would be a good HC.

 

If you are bad at your assistant job you don't really get HC interviews. Even if you aren't a good HC it doesn't mean you weren't a good DC, OC, DB coach, etc. Teams likely believe that Austin was at least a decent DC since he's getting interviewed for possible promotions and lateral moves.

[membengal]

20 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

That's an illogical way of presenting that argument though. Vance got HC interviews for being good at his prior job, not because it was guaranteed he would be a good HC.

 

If you are bad at your assistant job you don't really get HC interviews. Even if you aren't a good HC it doesn't mean you weren't a good DC, OC, DB coach, etc. Teams likely believe that Austin was at least a decent DC since he's getting interviewed for possible promotions and lateral moves.

This.
 

Plus, again, Green Bay had him about their DC opening - they saw his defenses twice a year, if they thought he was shit, they wouldn't have interviewed him for same. 

[Madieu Superstar]

20 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

That's an illogical way of presenting that argument though. Vance got HC interviews for being good at his prior job, not because it was guaranteed he would be a good HC.

 

If you are bad at your assistant job you don't really get HC interviews. Even if you aren't a good HC it doesn't mean you weren't a good DC, OC, DB coach, etc. Teams likely believe that Austin was at least a decent DC since he's getting interviewed for possible promotions and lateral moves.

Vance Joseph was a 1 year defensive coordinator whose defense finished 19th in DVOA, 29th in total defense, 19th in scoring defense, 32nd in rush defense, and 28th in penalties. 

 

Out of everyone in the world, I’d say I was the least illogical when it comes to hiring Vance Joseph as a head coach. 

[omgdrdoom]

9 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said:

Vance Joseph was a 1 year defensive coordinator whose defense finished 19th in DVOA, 29th in total defense, 19th in scoring defense, 32nd in rush defense, and 28th in penalties. 

 

Out of everyone in the world, I’d say I was the least illogical when it comes to hiring Vance Joseph as a head coach. 

Was that Vance's only job? Both he and Austin obviously have some respect around the league for being secondary/defense guys for quite some time. Joseph can't turn water into wine, what would any DC have done with Miami's 2016 defense? Probably ranked near the bottom of the league. We'll never know if he could turn it around as he got a promotion the very next year.

 

If you don't think Vance has a successful resume and didn't deserve HC jobs, I guess I'll be one of millions of people to disagree. You're free to believe whatever you'd like but your argument isn't based in sound logic, sorry.

[MichaelWeston]

Who are your guesses for the 5 open slots. Looks like the Titans are standing pat. 

 

Bears	John DeFelipo (1/5), Pat Shurmur (1/5), Josh McDaniels (1/5), Steve Wilks, Matt Nagy (1/7), George Edwards (1/4), Vic Fangio (1/3)
Bengals	MARVIN LEWIS
Cardinals	Pat Shurmur (1/5), Matt Patricia (1/6), Brian Flores (1/6), Mike Munchack (1/7), John DeFelipo (1/5), Keith Armstrong, James Bettcher (1/3), Jim Schwartz (1/5), Steve Wilks
Colts	Kris Richard (1/4), Josh McDaniels (1/3), Matt Nagy (1/7), Steve Wilks, Mike Vrabel (1/6)
Giants	Matt Patricia (1/5), Josh McDaniels (1/5), Jim Schwartz, Eric Studesville (1/10), Steve Wilks, Pat Shurmur (1/6), Steve Spagnulou (1/3)
Lions	Matt Patricia (1/5), Mike Vrabel (1/3), Pat Shurmur (1/4), Winston Moss (1/4), Teryl Austin (1/2), Steve Wilks, Jim Bob Cooter (1/2)
Raiders	JOHN GRUDEN

[Madieu Superstar]

3 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Was that Vance's only job? Both he and Austin obviously has some respect around the league for being secondary/defense guys for quite some time. Joseph can't turn water into wine, what would any DC have done with Miami's 2016 defense? Probably ranked near the bottom of the league. We'll never know if he could turn it around as he got a promotion the very next year.

 

If you don't think Vance has a successful resume and didn't deserve HC jobs, I guess I'll be one of millions of people to disagree. You're free to believe whatever you'd like but your argument isn't based in sound logic, sorry.

Marvin is “well respected around the league” according to others. What do I know? I’m not in the league. Marvin being “well respected” and Marvin being a deserving head coach at this point are two separate things. 

 

Vance has been a defensive coordinator and head coach. So far he’s been an abject failure at both. 

 

I’m one of millions of people who have seen others at work who have reputations completely out of line with their actual job performance. Vance seems to be one of those guys. 

 

You can judge him off of his reputation just like Elway did. I’ll judge him off of the performance of the players he coaches. 

 

Very illogical of me. 

[New Jersey Bengal]

Wouldnt mind seeing either Teryl Austin or Vic Fangio as DC

[omgdrdoom]

3 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said:

Marvin is “well respected around the league” according to others. What do I know? I’m not in the league. Marvin being “well respected” and Marvin being a deserving head coach at this point are two separate things. 

 

Vance has been a defensive coordinator and head coach. So far he’s been an abject failure at both. 

 

I’m one of millions of people who have seen others at work who have reputations completely out of line with their actual job performance. Vance seems to be one of those guys. 

 

You can judge him off of his reputation just like Elway did. I’ll judge him off of the performance of the players he coaches. 

 

Very illogical of me. 

Nah I'll judge him based off of what he's done in his career.

 

Getting HC interviews/jobs typically means you were successful at your previous jobs. Vance Joseph was good enough in his previous positions to get HC interviews. I don't know why it's so difficult for you to admit that he had a nice resume built up to that point. I'm not saying whether he was a great HC or an amazing 1 year DC.

 

You're coming at this in a way that doesn't make sense and being a dick about it after I explained myself, so whatever.

[MichaelWeston]

5 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said:

Who are your guesses for the 5 open slots. Looks like the Titans are standing pat. 

 

Bears	John DeFelipo (1/5), Pat Shurmur (1/5), Josh McDaniels (1/5), Steve Wilks, Matt Nagy (1/7), George Edwards (1/4), Vic Fangio (1/3)
Bengals	MARVIN LEWIS
Cardinals	Pat Shurmur (1/5), Matt Patricia (1/6), Brian Flores (1/6), Mike Munchack (1/7), John DeFelipo (1/5), Keith Armstrong, James Bettcher (1/3), Jim Schwartz (1/5), Steve Wilks
Colts	Kris Richard (1/4), Josh McDaniels (1/3), Matt Nagy (1/7), Steve Wilks, Mike Vrabel (1/6)
Giants	Matt Patricia (1/5), Josh McDaniels (1/5), Jim Schwartz, Eric Studesville (1/10), Steve Wilks, Pat Shurmur (1/6), Steve Spagnulou (1/3)
Lions	Matt Patricia (1/5), Mike Vrabel (1/3), Pat Shurmur (1/4), Winston Moss (1/4), Teryl Austin (1/2), Steve Wilks, Jim Bob Cooter (1/2)
Raiders	JOHN GRUDEN

I think Patricia is locked up in Detroit. Which kind of scares me about Austin because they might deem defense as the major issue. 

 

Next I would bet that McDaniels gets a job. Not sure which one. Then Shurmur. I have a feeling DeFelipo gets the Bears job. Not really sure why. That would leave one opening left. Nagy has ties to the Colts. Steve Wilks is interviewing everywhere. 

[Madieu Superstar]

15 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Nah I'll judge him based off of what he's done in his career.

 

Getting HC interviews/jobs typically means you were successful at your previous jobs. Vance Joseph was good enough in his previous positions to get HC interviews. I don't know why it's so difficult for you to admit that he had a nice resume built up to that point. I'm not saying whether he was a great HC or an amazing 1 year DC.

 

You're coming at this in a way that doesn't make sense and being a dick about it after I explained myself, so whatever.

I’m just judging Vance Joseph off of what we, as fans, can see. What did he really do with the Bengals? Did anyone in the secondary really get better? I know Kirkpatrick, Williams, and Iloka all ended up getting paid, but did you notice them make drastic improvements under Vance Joseph?

 

i just don’t care about a guy getting head coaching interviews. Chris Palmer got head coaching interviews, Dave Shula was well thought of as a WR coach. That doesn’t make them qualified to be a head coach. 

[omgdrdoom]

19 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said:

I’m just judging Vance Joseph off of what we, as fans, can see. What did he really do with the Bengals? Did anyone in the secondary really get better? I know Kirkpatrick, Williams, and Iloka all ended up getting paid, but did you notice them make drastic improvements under Vance Joseph?

 

i just don’t care about a guy getting head coaching interviews. Chris Palmer got head coaching interviews, Dave Shula was well thought of as a WR coach. That doesn’t make them qualified to be a head coach. 

It just doesn't make sense to not look at HC interviews as a positive for a position coach or coordinator. That's my entire point here.

 

This isn't something irrelevant like listing receiving TDs as a stat for a quarterback, being interviewed for promotions is definitely a good judge of whether a guy is viewed as good at his job or not by NFL executives that know a helluva lot more about this stuff than either of us. I don't care if Vance wasn't a good HC, I don't care if Austin wouldn't be a good HC, all I'm saying is that HC interviews and other teams wanting him as their DC is a good indicator that he's probably done a good job at what he's already accomplished in the NFL, which happens to be the same position we're hiring him for. If we were making him our HC then I'd agree that there's no real way to tell if he's going to be good or not as he's never been a HC before. We've seen his previous work and it's obviously good enough for a handful of other teams to be interested in him at lateral moves and promotions.

 

Brushing potential promotion interviews off because Vance Joseph didn't end up being a good HC is flat out goofy and doesn't make sense, which was what your original argument was based off of that I called illogical.

[Madieu Superstar]

24 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

It just doesn't make sense to not look at HC interviews as a positive for a position coach or coordinator. That's my entire point here.

 

This isn't something irrelevant like listing receiving TDs as a stat for a quarterback, being interviewed for promotions is definitely a good judge of whether a guy is viewed as good at his job or not by NFL executives that know a helluva lot more about this stuff than either of us. I don't care if Vance wasn't a good HC, I don't care if Austin wouldn't be a good HC, all I'm saying is that HC interviews and other teams wanting him as their DC is a good indicator that he's probably done a good job at what he's already accomplished in the NFL, which happens to be the same position we're hiring him for. If we were making him our HC then I'd agree that there's no real way to tell if he's going to be good or not as he's never been a HC before. We've seen his previous work and it's obviously good enough for a handful of other teams to be interested in him at lateral moves and promotions.

 

Brushing potential promotion interviews off because Vance Joseph didn't end up being a good HC is flat out goofy and doesn't make sense, which was what your original argument was based off of that I called illogical.

I’m judging him off of his time with the Bengals, Dolphins, and Broncos.

 

I see a guy who has gotten very far on reputation, with few results to show for it. 

 

If your argument is that reputations are always always based on fact and merit, I’d say your wrong. 

[Kochman]

Film breakdown: How to beat Teryl Austin’s defense for big plays

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/9/23/13003102/film-breakdown-how-to-beat-teryl-austin-defense-big-plays

 

 

The Breakdown: A Look at the Detroit Lions Schematic Philosophy

http://lastwordonprofootball.com/2017/08/23/breakdown-look-detroit-lions-schematic-philosophy/