No Money for FA's, Andre Smith a priority. Same old

[thezerawkid]

On 1/16/2018 at 11:22 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

My takeaways from Baghdad Hobson:

 

Oline is a priority just not early in the draft or in free agency other than keeping Andre

 

Ced and Fisher may or may not get another chance to start

 

See, and the funny thing is, this is basically a contradiction in terms. Either one is true and the other is not, or it has got to be all bullshit. If both of these sentiments end up true, who the hell is the starting unit on the offensive line?

 

If the team does go proactive and aggressive towards fixing the offensive line issue, we’ll know something worthwhile likely happened in meetings between Marvin and the ownership.

 

If not, fuck it.

[T-Dub]

On 1/16/2018 at 11:22 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

My takeaways from Baghdad Hobson:

 

 

Ced and Fisher may or may not get another chance to start

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing Pollack will at least make this decision before midseason instead of acting like the SOB holding up the line while he debates the entire menu out loud.

 

 

The chicken BLT sounds good but I had chicken for lunch on Monday.. 

[Inigo Montoya]

7 hours ago, thezerawkid said:

See, and the funny thing is, this is basically a contradiction in terms. Either one is true and the other is not, or it has got to be all bullshit. If both of these sentiments end up true, who the hell is the starting unit on the offensive line?

 

If the team does go proactive and aggressive towards fixing the offensive line issue, we’ll know something worthwhile likely happened in meetings between Marvin and the ownership.

 

If not, fuck it.

 

I personally believe rebuilding the o-line will take some time since they are looking at needing several new starters along with some depth.  That doesn't mean a couple holes can't be plugged this offseason.  When Hobknob says they will use a raft of picks on o-line but not the #12 pick, it makes me wonder if the front office also sees it that way.  It's not realistic to think a bunch of rookies taken the middle rounds will have an instant impact next year.  If you also add no outside free agents to the mix, why would anyone expect next year to be any better on the o-line?  And if the o-line is still a major problem, then we are looking at another season of bad offense.  

[omgdrdoom]

31 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I personally believe rebuilding the o-line will take some time since they are looking at needing several new starters along with some depth.  That doesn't mean a couple holes can't be plugged this offseason.  When Hobknob says they will use a raft of picks on o-line but not the #12 pick, it makes me wonder if the front office also sees it that way.  It's not realistic to think a bunch of rookies taken the middle rounds will have an instant impact next year.  If you also add no outside free agents to the mix, why would anyone expect next year to be any better on the o-line?  And if the o-line is still a major problem, then we are looking at another season of bad offense.  

It will only take some time because we're the Bengals. The Vikings had a terrible line a year ago and one of the better OL in the league this year. They added guys in free agency, drafted good players, and moved a guy or two around on the line. 4 of their 5 starters are different since last year and the 1 that remains moved back to guard from center.

 

If we sign Richburg and a guard (on whichever side depending on if the team likes Redmond or Westerman more), let Boling play LT, and re-sign Andre...that's a huge upgrade from 2017 without even talking about rookies. Obviously if we land a stud OT or interior guy in the draft it opens up even more options. We aren't going to sign an Andrew Norwell-esque free agent but we might sign someone that's better than what we currently have.

[thezerawkid]

2 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

It will only take some time because we're the Bengals. The Vikings had a terrible line a year ago and one of the better OL in the league this year. They added guys in free agency, drafted good players, and moved a guy or two around on the line. 4 of their 5 starters are different since last year and the 1 that remains moved back to guard from center.

 

If we sign Richburg and a guard (on whichever side depending on if the team likes Redmond or Westerman more), let Boling play LT, and re-sign Andre...that's a huge upgrade from 2017 without even talking about rookies. Obviously if we land a stud OT or interior guy in the draft it opens up even more options. We aren't going to sign an Andrew Norwell-esque free agent but we might sign someone that's better than what we currently have.

All that...

Plus, our position guys ain't gonna be in their primes forever. We need to get into "win, and win now" mode right, you guessed it, now. 

[MichaelWeston]

I think that we draft a tackle at 12 and 1 of 2 things happens. 

 

1. That tackle can play LT and then Boling is at LG, FA at C, Westerman/Hopkins/Redmon at RG, FA or Smith at RT

2. That tackle can't play LT but is fine at RT and then Boling at LT, Westerman at LG, FA at C, Hopkins or Redmon or FA signing at RT at RG and then #12 starts at RT. 

[MichaelWeston]

2 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

It will only take some time because we're the Bengals. The Vikings had a terrible line a year ago and one of the better OL in the league this year. They added guys in free agency, drafted good players, and moved a guy or two around on the line. 4 of their 5 starters are different since last year and the 1 that remains moved back to guard from center.

 

If we sign Richburg and a guard (on whichever side depending on if the team likes Redmond or Westerman more), let Boling play LT, and re-sign Andre...that's a huge upgrade from 2017 without even talking about rookies. Obviously if we land a stud OT or interior guy in the draft it opens up even more options. We aren't going to sign an Andrew Norwell-esque free agent but we might sign someone that's better than what we currently have.

Agree 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we got Richburg though. A local guy leaving a bad team for a team that is more in the mix

[T-Dub]

Much as I want them to draft an OT, expecting a rookie to step in and fix everything is fantasyland.  Particularly at LT.  

[MichaelWeston]

1 minute ago, T-Dub said:

Much as I want them to draft an OT, expecting a rookie to step in and fix everything is fantasyland.  Particularly at LT.  

Dion Dawkins started 11 games at tackle for the Bills

Ryan Ramczyk started 16 games at tackle for the Saints

Garrett Bolles started 16 games at tackle for the Broncos

Cam Robinson started 13 games at tackle for the Jaguars

 

 

[T-Dub]

1 minute ago, MichaelWeston said:

Dion Dawkins started 11 games at tackle for the Bills

Ryan Ramczyk started 16 games at tackle for the Saints

Garrett Bolles started 16 games at tackle for the Broncos

Cam Robinson started 13 games at tackle for the Jaguars

 

 

 

And those teams all had total shit OL's the year before right? I didn't say they wouldn't play, I said they wouldn't fix everything.  Reading comprehension.

[MichaelWeston]

4 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

And those teams all had total shit OL's the year before right? I didn't say they wouldn't play, I said they wouldn't fix everything.  Reading comprehension.

You are correct. I didn't really understand what you wrote. "Particularly at LT" seems to indicate that you were talking about one specific position and not the entire unit. Your train of thought wasn't cohesive so I just spoke to the part that didn't make much sense if you look at the facts of last year.

 

Why would it be problematic to expect a single player at LT to come in and fix things over other positions on the line? That's what the phrase Particularly LT means. 

[thezerawkid]

12 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

And those teams all had total shit OL's the year before right? I didn't say they wouldn't play, I said they wouldn't fix everything.  Reading comprehension.

Well, not saying it was because of their play, but three of those four teams made the playoffs. 

[omgdrdoom]

45 minutes ago, thezerawkid said:

Well, not saying it was because of their play, but three of those four teams made the playoffs. 

And the team that didn't make the playoffs happened to take the worst rookie of the 4 (while having their choice of all 4 guys mind you). Not saying Ramczyk would have made the Broncos playoff bound, but he sure would have helped them out a little bit more than Bolles did.

 

Boling can play LT or LG

Redmond looked better than Andre, Hopkins, Oogie, or Johnson at RG

Andre was fine at RT (can't see the team not bringing him back)

 

We desperately need 1 center and 1 linemen left of center. A single free agent and 1 decent rookie makes this line 20x better than our opening day line in 2017. I don't think it's crazy to think that these problems can be solved this offseason unless people want to see us go from the worst line to an elite line in less than a year, then yeah that's unrealistic and not happening.

[T-Dub]

Or we could draft another Ogbuehi.  Apparently this is a novel concept for some of you, but honestly this sort of starry-eyed draft hype happens every year.  I should just accept it at this point;  whoever we draft is going to be the greatest ever... until the next draft.  That one team drafted an LT and made the playoffs so that means the Bengals will also make the playoffs again by drafting an LT.  QED.

[omgdrdoom]

9 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

Or we could draft another Ogbuehi.  Apparently this is a novel concept for some of you, but honestly this sort of starry-eyed draft hype happens every year.  I should just accept it at this point;  whoever we draft is going to be the greatest ever... until the next draft.  

 

I don't see there being a problem recognizing that rookies can absolutely come into the NFL and play very well. Hell, the Saints just had an all time great draft this past year and had a CB, LT, and RB among the best players in the league at their respective positions. We've drafted some very good players over the past few years and all we need to do is not miss in the right spots and we're in decent shape heading into 2018.

 

Draft busts do exist but does it really make for a fun offseason to litter every thread with "yeah well we're just gonna draft a bust anyway so who cares!"? Some people don't like talking about draft prospects as much as others, but I don't see what the issue is when it's one of the only topics to touch on right now. It's fine to poke fun at the people who go way over the top with their exaggerations of every guy coming out of the draft becoming top 5 at their position and being compared to NFL legends, I think that's funny myself. I just don't see the point in only looking at the draft via doom and gloom instead of reality where some rookies are actually good football players.

 

I also don't see it as "starry eyed draft hype" to point out that if we pick up 1 decent free agent and have 1 draft pick lineman hit that we'd probably have a better chance at winning games in 2018 (especially with a new OL coach who seems to be damn good). Most of us on here haven't been too crazy or unrealistic in how we could improve.

[T-Dub]

26 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

I don't see there being a problem recognizing that rookies can absolutely come into the NFL and play very well.

I don't see there being a problem recognizing that rookies can absolutely come into the NFL and suck major ass.

[omgdrdoom]

51 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

I don't see there being a problem recognizing that rookies can absolutely come into the NFL and suck major ass.

Has anyone suggested the contrary? It seems like you're focusing only on the busts and won't give in to any thought that we may be able to draft a guard or tackle that could be a decent 2018 starter. If you don't like to talk about draft prospects then just don't talk about them. Acting like we can't possibly improve via rookies in the draft is just as tiring as the people who act like every pick will be an All-Pro.

[T-Dub]

4 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 Acting like we can't possibly improve via rookies in the draft 

 

All I said was that it's unlikely in their first season..  Don't blame me for the shit-fit that followed.

[omgdrdoom]

1 minute ago, T-Dub said:

 

All I said was that it's unlikely in their first season..  Don't blame me for the shit-fit that followed.

I think there would have been a huge difference in how the conversation went if you actually did say "unlikely" and not "fantasyland". Just IMO of course. I wouldn't have argued the former (can't speak for Weston), but I think he was correct in arguing the latter.

[MichaelWeston]

18 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

And those teams all had total shit OL's the year before right? I didn't say they wouldn't play, I said they wouldn't fix everything.  Reading comprehension.

 

50 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

All I said was that it's unlikely in their first season..  Don't blame me for the shit-fit that followed.

 

[T-Dub]

[Inigo Montoya]

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

All I said was that it's unlikely in their first season..  Don't blame me for the shit-fit that followed.

That's exactly my point in stating that rebuilding the o-line will take time.  You just can't bank on everything coming together with landing the right players and everyone developing quickly and then staying healthy.  Is it possible? Sure.  Is it likely? Probably not.

[T-Dub]

8 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

That's exactly my point in stating that rebuilding the o-line will take time.  You just can't bank on everything coming together with landing the right players and everyone developing quickly and then staying healthy.  Is it possible? Sure.  Is it likely? Probably not.

 

Right, exactly.  If it was a single position, maybe.  This was arguably the worst OL in the league.  I don't see fixing that overnight with a couple of draft picks.  Doesn't mean I'm not happy about the new OL coach (fucking finally, about 10 years late but still yay) or that I'm not excited about potentially landing 1-2 guys who can play.  Trying to keep the expectations halfway grounded in reality, that's all.

[Inigo Montoya]

7 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Right, exactly.  If it was a single position, maybe.  This was arguably the worst OL in the league.  I don't see fixing that overnight with a couple of draft picks.

The problem I see is that there are a bunch of bad offensive lines right now across the league, including Seattle, Indy, Arizona, Houston, Denver, Green Bay, and both NY teams.  There will be plenty of competition from other teams in the draft and FA also looking for line help.  It's not going to be simple or easy to land instant impact players. 

[omgdrdoom]

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

That's exactly my point in stating that rebuilding the o-line will take time.  You just can't bank on everything coming together with landing the right players and everyone developing quickly and then staying healthy.  Is it possible? Sure.  Is it likely? Probably not.

 

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

Right, exactly.  If it was a single position, maybe.  This was arguably the worst OL in the league.  I don't see fixing that overnight with a couple of draft picks.  Doesn't mean I'm not happy about the new OL coach (fucking finally, about 10 years late but still yay) or that I'm not excited about potentially landing 1-2 guys who can play.  Trying to keep the expectations halfway grounded in reality, that's all.

 

I think it would also come down to each persons definition of "fixed". If we're talking from our starting line in 2017 to an actual good OL, then yeah I completely agree that it's almost entirely out of the question to do in 1 single offseason (especially since we don't sign top tier UFAs). I don't think anyone on here is expecting us to go from the worst to the best though.

 

I'm just looking at it positively because I think even with the typical Bengals way of operating that we can surely improve our line from bad to average. Something like Boling/Rookie/Richburg/Redmond/Smith would almost surely be an improvement over Ogbuehi/Boling/Bodine/Hopkins/Fisher (our week 1 2017 line). Throw a new coach in the mix and you could have an average line with only having to add a budget free agent and a single draft pick.