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Bengals Need a Quick Rebuild & Here's How


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2 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

How many recent SB teams have had a shitty offense? That's why you don't trade the only elite player on that side of the ball.

 

Salary cap management is tough and having to decide where to allocate money can be quite the decision at times, but you don't trade away your only top tier player on offense, you just don't do that. SB winning teams usually have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick on them but it's a lot easier said than done to find the GOAT QB and HC at the same time.

 

I think the premise of "SB winning teams didn't have a top 5 WR so we should trade our top 5 WR" is illogical and silly. Okay, once we go out and find our own Brady, Belichick, Gronk, McDaniels, etc. etc. then we can talk about trading Green.

I'm not sure where you pulled the "we need a shitty offense to win the SB" thing from.  The Giants (2x) and Broncos both had pretty average offenses.  I'm simply saying if we upgrade the line and add other WRs we can have an average to above average offense.  If you look at the Saints, Colts and Pats, they had all-time QBs which we don't.  So how did the teams that didn't have all-time QBs win the SB?  Defense.  Again, I'm not trying to say since no SB winners had a top-5 WR that's why we trade AJ.  I'm saying it's not necessary (proven)to have a top-5 WR and we can use the $$ we would pay AJ to help upgrade the Oline and defense.

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1 hour ago, omgdrdoom said:

So you want to be in win now mode but you also want Bodine, Ogbuehi, and Fisher still on the OL?

 

I don't know man, can't really agree with much of anything that you're saying here.

I don't see any other realistic alternatives. What would you rather do? Cut them and go after free agent replacements? I don't see any free agent tackles I'd be thrilled about, do you? At best I think they'd bring in a mid-level guy to compete with Ogbuehi and Fisher. Do you draft replacements in the first and second round? Do you see any sure fire players that could start day 1 that won't go in the top 10? I don't know that there is that guy in the draft this year. I'd rather spend the draft picks improving the defense and lean on that side of the ball. With Green, Mixon, Bernard and Ross on offense I think that unit should be able to put up points with some new ideas and schemes, and the offensive line won't need the overhaul in personnel. 

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39 minutes ago, BlaketoPickensfor6 said:

I don't see any other realistic alternatives. What would you rather do? Cut them and go after free agent replacements? I don't see any free agent tackles I'd be thrilled about, do you? At best I think they'd bring in a mid-level guy to compete with Ogbuehi and Fisher. Do you draft replacements in the first and second round? Do you see any sure fire players that could start day 1 that won't go in the top 10? I don't know that there is that guy in the draft this year. I'd rather spend the draft picks improving the defense and lean on that side of the ball. With Green, Mixon, Bernard and Ross on offense I think that unit should be able to put up points with some new ideas and schemes, and the offensive line won't need the overhaul in personnel. 

 

The o-line showed enough at the end of the season to be serviceable...I think you re-sign Bodine as a backup if possible, but I think we will need some upgrades there.  We don't have a dominate QB and the strength of our offense should be Mixon and Gio.  Boling looked OK at LT, but I'd rather keep him at guard as he's probably our best lineman at this point and I don't think he's a world beater by any stretch of the imagination.  I'd expect us to draft a couple of linemen on day 2 of the draft, possibly day 1.  I still think they go BPA in round 1 and I think Roquan Smith has a good chance to fall to us, and if he does I don't think you can pass him up.  LB has been a weakness on our D forever and a Smith/Burfict duo would put this defense on the path to being really good.  Get Geno and Carlos extended, maybe another DT and a safety and this defense could be really good.

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3 hours ago, WRAPradio said:

I'm not sure where you pulled the "we need a shitty offense to win the SB" thing from.  The Giants (2x) and Broncos both had pretty average offenses.  I'm simply saying if we upgrade the line and add other WRs we can have an average to above average offense.  If you look at the Saints, Colts and Pats, they had all-time QBs which we don't.  So how did the teams that didn't have all-time QBs win the SB?  Defense.  Again, I'm not trying to say since no SB winners had a top-5 WR that's why we trade AJ.  I'm saying it's not necessary (proven)to have a top-5 WR and we can use the $$ we would pay AJ to help upgrade the Oline and defense.

Well, we had an offense that ranked in the absolute bottom of the league in most categories that matter and you don't seem to want to make many changes other than GETTING RID OF OUR BEST PLAYER ON OFFENSE. So yeah, I'm not sure how I got to the conclusion that you think we can win games with a shitty offense. 

 

I'm all for thinking "out of the box" but you want to take our already bottom-of-the-NFL offense and roll into 2018 without AJ Green and the only other changes on O being signing Mike Wallace and a shit tier center (while moving our own shit tier center to guard for some reason) and maybe drafting a mid round tackle. I don't know man, it really seems like you think we can either win with an awful offense or you expect the coaching staff to pull a horseshoe out of their asses. 

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I would like to see us take a run at Cordy Glenn either via trade{which should be cheap} or if he does get released. He has been hurt last 2 seasons but one of the top LT in football previous 4 years.

 

Quote

 

Bills LT Cordy Glenn (foot) is on track for OTAs.

Glenn spent the final five weeks on IR with lingering foot/ankle issues. There's rumblings Buffalo could move on from him, but Glenn should be healthy for the start of their offseason program. Glenn has three years and $23M remaining on his contract.

 

 
Quote

 

Bills can save $3.35 million against the salary cap by releasing LT Cordy Glenn this offseason.
They can save $4.85 million by trading him, but they are unlikely to get much for a tackle with lingering foot and ankle issues who has played 17 games total the last two seasons. Glenn remains a quality tackle when healthy, however, so the minimal cap savings may not be worth it if Buffalo thinks he can return to full health. Second-round rookie Dion Dawkins performed well in Glenn's place. Jan 9 - 10:21 AM

 

 
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Sadly, this team lacks swagger, confidence, and are uninspiring all of which come from the top: soP and Marvin. These two are old, lack real drive, and motivate no one. There is no world championship with them at the helm. 

 

This is a hard team to be super excited about. Andy is a good quarterback and if he was on an awesome team could win the big one. He’s not good enough to carry a team like this one. 

 

I think we may be looking at a stretch of 6 to 8 win seasons. There is no quick fix to be poised for a Super Bowl. 

 

 

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Don't need a rebuild, just need one good OL and another okay-ish one.  Some guys started to step up late so it may not even be that desperate.  One FA with some tread and a couple of draft picks would make me feel a lot better about that side of the ball.   Defensively it would be good if someone would claim that NT spot, another LB would be nice. I'm more concerned with the new DC than his players. Overall we're no worse off than most teams & have a lot better roster to work with than many. 

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11 hours ago, T-Dub said:

Don't need a rebuild, just need one good OL and another okay-ish one.  Some guys started to step up late so it may not even be that desperate.  One FA with some tread and a couple of draft picks would make me feel a lot better about that side of the ball.   Defensively it would be good if someone would claim that NT spot, another LB would be nice. I'm more concerned with the new DC than his players. Overall we're no worse off than most teams & have a lot better roster to work with than many. 

Yep, Redmond looked decent at guard and Boling can play LT or LG depending on what we can find between free agency and early draft picks (hopefully we take a couple somewhere between 1-4). I don't think we should rely on starting 3 rookies on the OL or anything, but I also can't agree with the guys claiming that we "can't give up on Ogbuehi and Fisher yet". They're both really, really, really bad at playing NFL football.

 

Billings had a couple of decent to good games mid-late in the season and he's still super young, Evans and Vigil have their internet fanboys though I don't find either to be very good linebackers. Which of those 2 positions would you rather see the team go at 12 overall if they wait on OL? Personally I'd love to see them draft Vita Vea at 12 if they want an immediate impact NT even though that's not the sexiest position on the field to take with a high first rounder. I think he has potential to be really good at the next level especially lined up next to one of the only elite 3T in the league. However, I do find LB to be the bigger need so I wouldn't hate it if we went that way either. I have a pretty wide range of what I'll be happy with us doing with the #12 pick this year, I think for me I'll be cool with any of the following: OL (literally any of the 5 positions), LB, DT, S

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On 1/23/2018 at 7:50 AM, omgdrdoom said:

Yep, Redmond looked decent at guard and Boling can play LT or LG depending on what we can find between free agency and early draft picks (hopefully we take a couple somewhere between 1-4). I don't think we should rely on starting 3 rookies on the OL or anything, but I also can't agree with the guys claiming that we "can't give up on Ogbuehi and Fisher yet". They're both really, really, really bad at playing NFL football.

 

Billings had a couple of decent to good games mid-late in the season and he's still super young, Evans and Vigil have their internet fanboys though I don't find either to be very good linebackers. Which of those 2 positions would you rather see the team go at 12 overall if they wait on OL? Personally I'd love to see them draft Vita Vea at 12 if they want an immediate impact NT even though that's not the sexiest position on the field to take with a high first rounder. I think he has potential to be really good at the next level especially lined up next to one of the only elite 3T in the league. However, I do find LB to be the bigger need so I wouldn't hate it if we went that way either. I have a pretty wide range of what I'll be happy with us doing with the #12 pick this year, I think for me I'll be cool with any of the following: OL (literally any of the 5 positions), LB, DT, S

From Bengals.com http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Down-the-line/b242d055-9da4-4fc3-949e-0108c14d8098

"Pollack likes what’s there. He says Ogbuehi and Fisher “are talented guys. Where they were drafted tells you they have talent. We have to try to develop that talent and see if we can get those guys to take the next step.”

He also remembers Bodine from the 2014 draft.

“He was an impressive guy. I had a really good interview with him at the combine,” Pollack said.

 

Uh oh, looks like Pollack might lose some fans around here.

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1 minute ago, BlaketoPickensfor6 said:

From Bengals.com http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Down-the-line/b242d055-9da4-4fc3-949e-0108c14d8098

"Pollack likes what’s there. He says Ogbuehi and Fisher “are talented guys. Where they were drafted tells you they have talent. We have to try to develop that talent and see if we can get those guys to take the next step.”

He also remembers Bodine from the 2014 draft.

“He was an impressive guy. I had a really good interview with him at the combine,” Pollack said.

 

Uh oh, looks like Pollack might lose some fans around here.

The tackles obviously aren't going to get cut but they shouldn't and probably won't be starters here. What do you expect Pollack to say? "Those guys fucking suck and we won't even try to work with them!"

 

"He was an impressive guy. I had a really good interview with him at the combine". Oh em gee, I wonder why he said that and didn't even comment on his ability on the football field?

 

Look, you can read into those quotes however you'd like and you can take Hobspin's bullshit in between however you'd like as well, but don't try acting like he's praising any of what those 3 have done on the football field because he obviously avoided that part of it with all of them.

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56 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

The tackles obviously aren't going to get cut but they shouldn't and probably won't be starters here. What do you expect Pollack to say? "Those guys fucking suck and we won't even try to work with them!"

 

"He was an impressive guy. I had a really good interview with him at the combine". Oh em gee, I wonder why he said that and didn't even comment on his ability on the football field?

 

Look, you can read into those quotes however you'd like and you can take Hobspin's bullshit in between however you'd like as well, but don't try acting like he's praising any of what those 3 have done on the football field because he obviously avoided that part of it with all of them.

All this tells me is that the team hasn't given up on any of those players, so fans should get used to the idea that they'll be retained. If they had no intention of bringing back Bodine, or at least thinking of starting Ogbuehi and Fisher, I'd expect Pollack to know that and say something more along the lines of how he's looking to rebuild the line in his image. I don't take him as a bullshitter, so I don't expect him to mince words when it comes to player evaluations. You have clearly written these guys off, but I don't think they're the hopeless causes you make them out to be.

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9 minutes ago, BlaketoPickensfor6 said:

All this tells me is that the team hasn't given up on any of those players, so fans should get used to the idea that they'll be retained. If they had no intention of bringing back Bodine, or at least thinking of starting Ogbuehi and Fisher, I'd expect Pollack to know that and say something more along the lines of how he's looking to rebuild the line in his image. I don't take him as a bullshitter, so I don't expect him to mince words when it comes to player evaluations. You have clearly written these guys off, but I don't think they're the hopeless causes you make them out to be.

It's not that I think Pollack is a bullshitter, he's just not going to stand there and bash the players on the team that are clearly going to be there (or possibly be there in Bodine's case) in 2018. There is absolutely no reason he'd start trashing any of them, what he gave was a pretty generic compliment. He was asked questions about the guys and he gave quick, positive answers like anyone should expect. All I'm saying is that it's kinda silly to take much of anything from those quotes.

 

It's not like we haven't seen these guys playing football before. I don't know why it's so crazy to "write off" bad players as bad players when we've watched them in a lot of regular season games. There's a chance for any player in the NFL to turn the corner at any point in their career, but it's pretty obvious that there's a very low chance that Ogbuehi, Fisher, and Bodine are all going to magically become good football players overnight.  I'm not saying there's a 0% chance Ogbuehi will ever be a good NFL LT, just that there's a very, very, very low chance that he will be so I'd hope the team has plans for him to stick around as a backup only.

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5 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

It's not that I think Pollack is a bullshitter, he's just not going to stand there and bash the players on the team that are clearly going to be there (or possibly be there in Bodine's case) in 2018. There is absolutely no reason he'd start trashing any of them, what he gave was a pretty generic compliment. He was asked questions about the guys and he gave quick, positive answers like anyone should expect. All I'm saying is that it's kinda silly to take much of anything from those quotes.

 

It's not like we haven't seen these guys playing football before. I don't know why it's so crazy to "write off" bad players as bad players when we've watched them in a lot of regular season games. There's a chance for any player in the NFL to turn the corner at any point in their career, but it's pretty obvious that there's a very low chance that Ogbuehi, Fisher, and Bodine are all going to magically become good football players overnight.  I'm not saying there's a 0% chance Ogbuehi will ever be a good NFL LT, just that there's a very, very, very low chance that he will be so I'd hope the team has plans for him to stick around as a backup only.

He could have declined to comment. He could have only commented on the traits he's looking for in linemen. Just going with the overall tone of the article I'd say Hobson is trying to get fans to accept the idea that the instant overhaul on the offensive line just may not be in the cards this offseason and the plan the Bengals go with is that the new coaches will get more out of the current players. I don't doubt they'll draft one or two linemen, but those guys might not start, at least not right away.

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4 minutes ago, BlaketoPickensfor6 said:

He could have declined to comment. He could have only commented on the traits he's looking for in linemen. Just going with the overall tone of the article I'd say Hobson is trying to get fans to accept the idea that the instant overhaul on the offensive line just may not be in the cards this offseason and the plan the Bengals go with is that the new coaches will get more out of the current players. I don't doubt they'll draft one or two linemen, but those guys might not start, at least not right away.

Oh I think you're 100% correct on that one. Of course that's what Hobspin is doing and that (more than likely) is the plan for the Bengals because that's how they typically operate.

 

I'm just saying that IMO it's wrong because most of the OL we currently have flat out suck at playing football at this level. I have zero doubt in my mind that the Bengals won't go out and do what most other good NFL teams would do which is address the biggest weakness of the team with multiple good free agents and some early to mid draft picks.

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1 minute ago, omgdrdoom said:

Oh I think you're 100% correct on that one. Of course that's what Hobspin is doing and that (more than likely) is the plan for the Bengals because that's how they typically operate.

 

I'm just saying that IMO it's wrong because most of the OL we currently have flat out suck at playing football at this level. I have zero doubt in my mind that the Bengals won't go out and do what most other good NFL teams would do which is address the biggest weakness of the team with multiple good free agents and some early to mid draft picks.

I'd look at what Whitworth is making with the Rams and expect them to set their price there. If they can't land Solder for that there's not really anybody available that's going to be any better. If they reach for a lineman at No. 12 they might end up passing on the draft's best defensive tackle or linebacker. It's a tough spot.

 

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12 minutes ago, BlaketoPickensfor6 said:

I'd look at what Whitworth is making with the Rams and expect them to set their price there. If they can't land Solder for that there's not really anybody available that's going to be any better. If they reach for a lineman at No. 12 they might end up passing on the draft's best defensive tackle or linebacker. It's a tough spot.

 

 

It's a tough spot but it's also very easy to see how historically bad our 2017 opening day OL was. Ogbuehi, Fisher, and Bodine are all really bad at NFL football and that's my entire point here. You should actively look to replace your worst players and those 3 are among our worst.

 

This isn't about what the Bengals will do but what we personally think the Bengals should do. I think it's really, really, really, really, really dumb if the team plans to go into 2018 with even 2 of those 3 as starting players.

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6 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

It's a tough spot but it's also very easy to see how historically bad our 2017 opening day OL was. Ogbuehi, Fisher, and Bodine are all really bad at NFL football and that's my entire point here. You should actively look to replace your worst players and those 3 are among our worst.

 

This isn't about what the Bengals will do but what we personally think the Bengals should do. I think it's really, really, really, really, really dumb if the team plans to go into 2018 with even 2 of those 3 as starting players.

I don't think they'll go into 2018 with anybody but Boling slated to be a starter, unless they sign a big name free agent, the rest of the spots will be filled through camp competition. The purpose of this thread was to discuss a quick fix, and the OP seemed to think we should sacrifice other talented players to secure linemen. I think that's the wrong approach. The Bengals offense didn't suffer because of the line, it  suffered because of the plays, and the fact that Mixon couldn't run within the system. The offensive line took a dip in its overall rankings this season without Whitworth and Zietler, but their sack ratio stayed right at 7.3 percent despite the tackle rotation and all the other stuff that was going on. Later on in the season they had to put some other guys on the field due to injuries, but they also changed the running game blocking up quite a bit and you see the results as they averaged more than 4 ypc twice and more than 5 ypc three times in the last six games. So no, I don't think they need a whole new cast of characters to be successful next season.

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2 minutes ago, BlaketoPickensfor6 said:

I don't think they'll go into 2018 with anybody but Boling slated to be a starter, unless they sign a big name free agent, the rest of the spots will be filled through camp competition. The purpose of this thread was to discuss a quick fix, and the OP seemed to think we should sacrifice other talented players to secure linemen. I think that's the wrong approach. The Bengals offense didn't suffer because of the line, it  suffered because of the plays, and the fact that Mixon couldn't run within the system. The offensive line took a dip in its overall rankings this season without Whitworth and Zietler, but their sack ratio stayed right at 7.3 percent despite the tackle rotation and all the other stuff that was going on. Later on in the season they had to put some other guys on the field due to injuries, but they also changed the running game blocking up quite a bit and you see the results as they averaged more than 4 ypc twice and more than 5 ypc three times in the last six games. So no, I don't think they need a whole new cast of characters to be successful next season.

 

I guess we watched different games in 2017. I don't need any stats to see how awful the OL was this year, especially early on. Once they changed the blocking scheme, we saw the Bengals play with all different lineups. It's weird but they actually improved when Ogbuehi and Fisher both weren't playing. But yeah, those guys aren't the problem.

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9 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

I guess we watched different games in 2017. I don't need any stats to see how awful the OL was this year, especially early on. Once they changed the blocking scheme, we saw the Bengals play with all different lineups. It's weird but they actually improved when Ogbuehi and Fisher both weren't playing. But yeah, those guys aren't the problem.

I saw the line struggle at times, but I also didn't see much creativity in the playbook and the stubbornness of Alexander to change the blocking scheme has been well documented. I also know that they don't start 2018 where they started 2017, rather where they ended 2017, which wasn't bad by your own admission. So what's the big emergency on the line I wonder?

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On 1/23/2018 at 12:13 PM, LostInDaJungle said:

Nothing the Bengals do wins you Superbowls.

Heck, since when has the goal of this org been to win SuperBowls?
Is that your second $8 PBR? Good, enjoy watching AJ Green ya schmuck.

I don't think this is true. I have heard and seen quoted both Marvin AND Mike both say that winning the Superbowl was their goal, so it must be true.

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15 hours ago, Bunghole said:

I don't think this is true. I have heard and seen quoted both Marvin AND Mike both say that winning the Superbowl was their goal, so it must be true.

 

Maybe the mopey SOB hopes to win a Superbowl but a goal is something you plan for and work towards, not something that simply happens because you think you're a good person.  He may want a championship, but not enough to change his approach.  It's not about achievement, it's about validation.  Success to him is conditional on being able to do things his way, what most people would call adapting to changing circumstances to him would be admitting he was wrong about something & he'd rather fail over and over again.

 

When you think about it, this gives Marvin a great deal of leverage.  If he were to leave and find success elsewhere, it would prove that the problems here were with the organization. He's still here after all this time because he serves as a lightning rod for Brown's ineptitude. If he left there'd be nothing stopping him from revealing just how dysfunctional the franchise really is behind closed doors.

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16 hours ago, BlaketoPickensfor6 said:

I don't think they'll go into 2018 with anybody but Boling slated to be a starter, unless they sign a big name free agent, the rest of the spots will be filled through camp competition. The purpose of this thread was to discuss a quick fix, and the OP seemed to think we should sacrifice other talented players to secure linemen. I think that's the wrong approach. The Bengals offense didn't suffer because of the line, it  suffered because of the plays, and the fact that Mixon couldn't run within the system. The offensive line took a dip in its overall rankings this season without Whitworth and Zietler, but their sack ratio stayed right at 7.3 percent despite the tackle rotation and all the other stuff that was going on. Later on in the season they had to put some other guys on the field due to injuries, but they also changed the running game blocking up quite a bit and you see the results as they averaged more than 4 ypc twice and more than 5 ypc three times in the last six games. So no, I don't think they need a whole new cast of characters to be successful next season.

This

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