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Tracking 2019 Comp Picks


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Can we please not give a fuck about comp picks just one time? Please? Not that we're going to sign any great players anyway, but I'd really like to see at least 1 "decent" free agent come here and not have to worry about if he was cut or not. We could really use some LB help right now and relying on the draft alone for that seems like a bad idea.

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17 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

:39:

 

 

No.

 

Just to clarify, I meant "we" the Bengals organization, not "we" posters on the message board. I have no issue with tracking this whether it frustrates me or not.

 

It sucks how we have to ignore legitimately good UFAs that have proven they can play in the NFL just to maybe, possibly get a late round pick that will turn into another likely scrub.

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Since 2007

 

Chinedum Ndukwe

Andre Caldwell

Matt Sherry

Angelo Craig

Mario Urrutia

Chase Coffman

Bernard Scott

Clinton McDonald

Freddie Brown

Brandon Ghee

Rodderick Muckelroy

Jay Finley (supplemental comp pick)

Reid Fragel

TJ Johnson

Marquis Flowers

Lavelle Westbrooks

Paul Dawson

Marcus Hardison

Ryan Glasgow

JJ Dielman

Mason Schreck

 

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48 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

Just to clarify, I meant "we" the Bengals organization, not "we" posters on the message board. I have no issue with tracking this whether it frustrates me or not.

 

It sucks how we have to ignore legitimately good UFAs that have proven they can play in the NFL just to maybe, possibly get a late round pick that will turn into another likely scrub.

 

 

I don't  think they make moves, or not with just the thought of comp picks in mind.

I think they would operate the same way even if comp picks weren't a thing.

 

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Just now, oldschooler said:

 

 

I don't  think they make moves, or not with just the thought of comp picks in mind.

I think they would operate the same way even if comp picks weren't a thing.

 

 

It's been stated by the organization that they operate free agency with comp picks in mind.

 

It's not the 100% driving factor, but they absolutely consider it when making decisions. I honestly can't believe you didn't know that with how much it seems that you follow the team. They've literally come out and said they keep comp picks in mind with their decisions.

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18 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

It's been stated by the organization that they operate free agency with comp picks in mind.

 

It's not the 100% driving factor, but they absolutely consider it when making decisions. I honestly can't believe you didn't know that with how much it seems that you follow the team. They've literally come out and said they keep comp picks in mind with their decisions.

 

 

I know they take it into consideration, because they exist. But like I said,

I think they would operate basically the same way even if they didn't.

 

They had never drafted a Guard in the 1st round. So I was not surprised

they weren't going to make Zeitler the highest paid Guard in the NFL.

They signed Whitworth to 2 and 1 year contracts. So I'm not surprised

he left to sign with the Rams for 3 years.  

 

But while you rail against comp picks, consider this...

 

Tom Brady, Larry Allen and Hines Ward were all comp picks.

 

And consider this ...

 

Quote

The list of teams that have received the most compensatory picks since 1994 is pretty similar to the list of the best teams in football since 1994: The Ravens have received the most compensatory picks, and they’ve won two Super Bowls. The Packers have received the second-most, and they’ve also won two Super Bowls. The Patriots are fourth, and they’ve won five Super Bowls. The 10 teams that have had the most compensatory picks have won most of the Super Bowls since 1994, with a total of 14 titles for those 10 teams.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, the teams that don’t receive a lot of compensatory picks tend to be bad teams: There are 14 teams that have received fewer than 20 compensatory picks since the system started in 1994, and those 14 teams have won a combined two Super Bowls.

 

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/24/compensatory-picks-are-a-reward-for-smart-teams/

 

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Cherrypicking like 3 good players out of hundreds of comp picks over a decade+ isn't going to get me to change my mind.

 

I'm not surprised they didn't re-sign Zeitler either, but we'll have to just agree to disagree if you honestly think they didn't have that fat 3rd round comp in their mind when the decision came to pursue a good UFA or not after he signed with Cleveland. There's no doubt in my mind that they would have made our roster at least somewhat better if comp picks didn't exist. You're free to believe otherwise but from the words of the FO themselves, I think it proves that you would be incorrect.

 

Comp picks correlating with winning/losing is a weird place because it's an illogical argument due to this simple fact: Perennial winners can't keep rosters in tact as easily as perennial losers. Perennial winners tend to have better players on their teams (duh), so therefore, they'd lose more of their own good players in free agency than a perennial loser. Those teams tend to get more comp picks because they're good teams, they aren't good teams because they get more comp picks. Suggesting it's the opposite is very, very silly.

 

It's like a chicken or the egg argument except 1 side makes a lot more sense than the other, or at least it should.

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Old... while all of the comp picks statistics are great to look at, they mean absolutely jack shit when it comes to our Bengals.

 

We haven't done dick with ours, haven't won a playoff game, and "The Bengals Way" has been unequivocally proven to suck copious amounts of donkey cock.

 

Besides that... all is well...

 

 

remain-calm-all-is-well.jpg

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3 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Cherrypicking like 3 good players out of hundreds of comp picks over a decade+ isn't going to get me to change my mind.

 

I could have picked more cherries. Would that help?

 

3 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

There's no doubt in my mind that they would have made our roster at least somewhat better if comp picks didn't exist. You're free to believe otherwise but from the words of the FO themselves, I think it proves that you would be incorrect.

 

 

Let me see, getting a 3rd round comp pick is always bad.

Getting a UFA is always good.

 

 

3 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

 

Comp picks correlating with winning/losing is a weird place because it's an illogical argument due to this simple fact: Perennial winners can't keep rosters in tact as easily as perennial losers. Perennial winners tend to have better players on their teams (duh), so therefore, they'd lose more of their own good players in free agency than a perennial loser. Those teams tend to get more comp picks because they're good teams, they aren't good teams because they get more comp picks. Suggesting it's the opposite is very, very silly.

 

They use the system that is in place for their benefit. They lose great players and don't sign UFAs to 

replace them, obviously. They use the draft to reload. That's why they get the fucking comp pick.

To ignore that is truly silly.

 

But by all means...

 

 

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1 minute ago, oldschooler said:

 

I could have picked more cherries. Would that help?

 

 

 

Let me see, getting a 3rd round comp pick is always bad.

Getting a UFA is always good.

 

 

 

They use the system that is in place for their benefit. They lose great players and don't sign UFAs to 

replace them, obviously. They use the draft to reload. That's why they get the fucking comp pick.

To ignore that is truly silly.

 

But by all means...

 

 

Problem is... we haven't brother.

 

Hell... even losing Whit didn't get us a 3rd, just a 5th because of his seniority.

 

If we were GOOD using those comp picks, maybe I'd feel differently.

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Just now, oldschooler said:

Let me see, getting a 3rd round comp pick is always bad.

Getting a UFA is always good.

 

 

 

They use the system that is in place for their benefit. They lose great players and don't sign UFAs to 

replace them, obviously. They use the draft to reload. That's why they get the fucking comp pick.

To ignore that is truly silly.

 

But by all means...

 

 

Never said getting a 3rd round comp is "always bad" or that a UFA is "always good". You said you don't think their approach would be different with or without comps. I absolutely do think they would have signed a UFA when we lost Zeitler/Whit if comp picks didn't exist. Agree to disagree like I said originally instead of creating strawman arguments please.

 

The other part is like saying that teams that pick in the 20's and 30's are generally better teams than the ones who pick in the top 10 more often. No shit! Just like teams that are better typically end up with more comp picks over the course of 20 years because good teams lose more good players more frequently than bad teams. Also the worst teams have to go nuts in free agency because they're bad teams so they have to overcompensate.

 

"Build through the draft" doesn't always work out just like "build through every UFA possible" doesn't work either. You're constant with the black & white bullshit when these situations are anything but. Good day to you, you don't seem to be willing to have a genuine discussion on this.

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1 minute ago, USN Bengal said:

Problem is... we haven't brother.

 

Hell... even losing Whit didn't get us a 3rd, just a 5th because of his seniority.

 

If we were GOOD using those comp picks, maybe I'd feel differently.

 

Look at that list omgdrdoom posted up there.

There are so good players that helped us win in the past.

 

Not every mid to late round pick turns in to gold for every team.

 

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31 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

I know they take it into consideration, because they exist. But like I said,

I think they would operate basically the same way even if they didn't.

 

They had never drafted a Guard in the 1st round. So I was not surprised

they weren't going to make Zeitler the highest paid Guard in the NFL.

They signed Whitworth to 2 and 1 year contracts. So I'm not surprised

he left to sign with the Rams for 3 years.  

 

But while you rail against comp picks, consider this...

 

Tom Brady, Larry Allen and Hines Ward were all comp picks.

 

And consider this ...

 

 

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/24/compensatory-picks-are-a-reward-for-smart-teams/

 

The best teams are capable of running the personnel side of the organization like a business.  They don't become emotionally attached to a single player because doing so almost always makes you over spend on said player and hurts other parts of the team.  Think Joe Flacco.

 

When a guy like Nate Solder became an FA I am sure New England looked at factors such as his cost, a replacement cost, player quality and effect on the team if they kept him or let him go.  Certainly getting  a 3 rd  round comp pick for Solder was part of the equation.    New England decided letting him go was the best option.   It wasn't the popular option at all.  Neither was letting Jimmy G go.  The results of this cold blooded strategy speak for themselves though.  They are also very good at later round drafting.

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2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

 

Look at that list omgdrdoom posted up there.

There are so good players that helped us win in the past.

 

Not every mid to late round pick turns in to gold for every team.

 

It would be a stretch to call any of those players "good", I'd say the BEST of them would be Caldwell... and he was/is a marginal spot starter.

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There's nothing wrong with getting comp picks, the more draft picks you have the better for very obvious reasons.

 

My main point is that the Bengals (they even admit it) go out of their way to make sure those precious comp picks don't go anywhere. Sure we could sign that upgrade at LB or on the OL for a reasonable cost, but why would we do that to hurt our possibility of an extra mid/late rounder? That's what bothers me. I completely understand staying away from a lot of UFAs because how insane the market is and how "overpaid" some of these guys get, I do understand why we stay away from those players, I'm not a total dumbass.

 

If there aren't obvious upgrades on the non-cut UFA market, then by all means go for the damn comp picks, or if we stumble upon some comps that's fine too.

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16 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Never said getting a 3rd round comp is "always bad" or that a UFA is "always good". You said you don't think their approach would be different with or without comps. I absolutely do think they would have signed a UFA when we lost Zeitler/Whit if comp picks didn't exist. Agree to disagree like I said originally instead of creating strawman arguments please.

 

You said "There's no doubt in my mind that they would have made our roster at least somewhat better if comp picks didn't exist."

So yeah, you did say that, no matter how you want to spin it now.

  

 

And I am having a discussion. But you don't like comp picks and don't like what I have to say in regards to

teams that have had the most comp picks in history and it's correlation to winning and winning franchises.  

 

So please give the condescending , snarky bullshit a rest.

 

Who-Dey

 

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5 minutes ago, USN Bengal said:

It would be a stretch to call any of those players "good", I'd say the BEST of them would be Caldwell... and he was/is a marginal spot starter.

That list is a bunch of absolute shitters outside of Bernard Scott and Caldwell. Only Bengals fans would even call any of them remotely good just because of the name recognition since we're fans of the team. Nobody else would call any of those guys "good" at the NFL level.

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9 minutes ago, USN Bengal said:

It would be a stretch to call any of those players "good", I'd say the BEST of them would be Caldwell... and he was/is a marginal spot starter.

And that is a front office issue not a strategy issue.  You have to treat every draft pick like its gold.  A good team finds good players in the later rounds.  If 1 player in rounds 4-7 turns out to be a decent player or even backup, that is good.  What is that crazy Cleveland stat?  No draft choices from 2015 back are still with the club?  Insane. 

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1 minute ago, oldschooler said:

 

You said "There's no doubt in my mind that they would have made our roster at least somewhat better if comp picks didn't exist."

So yeah, you did say that, no matter how you want to spin it now.

 

 

That's not what I fucking said so stop spinning it.

 

I said that if comp picks didn't exist, I guarantee the team would have gone out to sign at least 1 more UFA last season specifically. Obviously I believe they'd have gone for an upgrade, AKA MAKING THE ROSTER BETTER. Of course the guy may not have panned out 100%, but the team would have been attempting to MAKE THE TEAM BETTER. I personally believe they didn't do that because of the 3rd round comp Zietler would give them. That comp pick may or may not upgrade the roster but I never said "comp picks are all bad" like your fucking strawman argument did.

 

Learn how words and sentences work with context. Don't play the bullshit spin games with me because I'm far too familiar with them on boards like this. Not going to work. I NEVER said "all comp picks are bad" or "all UFAs are good". That quote you posted isn't saying either of those, so how about YOU fuck off with the snarky shit.

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