Eric Reid to visit Bengals

[Jamie_B]

Bravo Old, Bravo

[|SF2|]

11 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 

Please stop. Let this post be your last post on this idiotic stance.

Even if none of this changes your mind, we know how you feel.

No need to make another thread go to the political forum.

Like I told you in one thread that you madeon this subject that got moved,

it's better to have an educated opinion than just an opinion.

 

76.9% of the population is white. And 13.3% is black.

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045217

 

 

13.3% of the population ends up being 25% of people killed by cops.

 

 That means black Americans are 3 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

 

 

 

It was never about disrespecting the flag. Never. If you ignore what it was really about, and make it into something else,

then you are part of the problem. Don't be that guy. Either way, stop posting about it, please. It's ridiculous.

 

 

See, this what creates serious issues, when you selectively throw statistics our there with zero context.

 

Here is the data from the FBI as of 2015.  https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43   The reality is as follows:

• Of adults arrested for murder, 50.4 percent were Black or African American, 46.5 percent were White, and 3.1 percent were of other races.  Keep in mind white includes Hispanics in FBI statistics

Better yet, the FBI is NOT picking on blacks.  The arrest data for other types of crime is decidedly WHITE.  In other words, white people get arrested by number far more than blacks.

• In 2015, 69.7 percent of all individuals arrested were White, 26.6 percent were Black or African American, and 3.6 percent were of other races.

But the final match that burns down your straw man is this:  The number of UNARMED whites (includes Hispanics) who were killed by police in 2017 was 43 while only 20 unarmed blacks were killed. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/

 

So lets recap:  13.3% of the population is committing 50% of the murders but are only 25% of the people killed by police.   Meanwhile, whites and Hispanics who committed 46.5% of the murders made up 64.4% of those killed by police.     

 

Have a nice day.

[Inigo Montoya]

PFT is reporting MB asked Reid point blank if he was going to continue to kneel during the anthem and Reid didn't indicate he would stop.  As a result no offer was made and he will not be signing with the Bengals.

[Jamie_B]

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

PFT is reporting MB asked Reid point blank if he was going to continue to kneel during the anthem and Reid didn't indicate he would stop.  As a result no offer was made and he will not be signing with the Bengals.

I saw that, but I've also seen where Reid said he doesn't plan on protesting in that manner anymore, so who knows what is true.

[oldschooler]

9 hours ago, SF2 said:

See, this what creates serious issues, when you selectively throw statistics our there wi6 th zero context.

 

Here is the data from the FBI as of 2015.  https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43   The reality is as follows:

• Of adults arrested for murder, 50.4 percent were Black or African American, 46.5 percent were White, and 3.1 percent were of other races.  Keep in mind white includes Hispanics in FBI statistics

Better yet, the FBI is NOT picking on blacks.  The arrest data for other types of crime is decidedly WHITE.  In other words, white people get arrested by number far more than blacks.

• In 2015, 69.7 percent of all individuals arrested were White, 26.6 percent were Black or African American, and 3.6 percent were of other races.

But the final match that burns down your straw man is this:  The number of UNARMED whites (includes Hispanics) who were killed by police in 2017 was 43 while only 20 unarmed blacks were killed. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/

 

So lets recap:  13.3% of the population is committing 50% of the murders but are only 25% of the people killed by police.   Meanwhile, whites and Hispanics who committed 46.5% of the murders made up 64.4% of those killed by police.     

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

Wait, you said I threw out statistics our there with zero context?

But isn't that what you just did?

 

What do murders have to do with unarmed black men being killed by police?

What does that have to do with blacks being shot with cellphones and white mass shooters

being captured alive? What does that have to do with a black men being killed over selling cigarettes?

What does that have to do with a cop only having to say "I feared for my life" and he is judge

jury and excutioner that is put on PAL (Paid Administrative Leave) until the smoke blows over?

 

My context: Blacks are 3 times as likely to be killed by police as whites. That is a fact.

Another fact, Unarmed black people are twice as likely to be shot by cops as unarmed white people.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-americans-shot-dead-police-shooting-twice-likely-white-people-us-african-american-a7567471.html

 

You: B-b-but blacks commit half of the murders!

 

 

It's called racism, bias or whatever name you want to apply to it.

None of those names are justifiable though. No matter much you want it to be.

 

 

 

 

 

[USN Bengal]

On 4/10/2018 at 9:00 PM, oldschooler said:

 

Please stop. Let this post be your last post on this idiotic stance.

Even if none of this changes your mind, we know how you feel.

No need to make another thread go to the political forum.

Like I told you in one thread that you madeon this subject that got moved,

it's better to have an educated opinion than just an opinion.

 

76.9% of the population is white. And 13.3% is black.

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045217

 

 

13.3% of the population ends up being 25% of people killed by cops.

 

 That means black Americans are 3 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/police-shootings-killings-us-unarmed-black-reform-michael-brown-764787

 

Not enough? Watch the video...

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was never about disrespecting the flag. Never. If you ignore what it was really about, and make it into something else,

then you are part of the problem. Don't be that guy. Either way, stop posting about it, please. It's ridiculous.

 

 

If you have never placed a blank check payable with your life to this country, handed the folded flag taken from the coffin of a brother or sister in arms and gave it to their family, or had fellow service men and women who you loved die in service to this country...then you will NEVER understand what Rick, and many others including me, are talking about when they say it is disrespect.

 

So please, just please stop it, it's ridiculous.

 

The reasoning behind the protest is also understood by many like Rick and I, some of us have no problem with the protest, although we don't agree with the methodology.

 

So while I see your reasoning old, I do not agree with your end result. The protest can be BOTH disrespectful to some, and true to it's intent.

 

By the way - I believe it was meant to be disrespectful to the flag and get the maximum reaction possible. I completely understand why they would, as people of color are NOT treated as equals under the flag... even when they have fought and died for the flag.

 

So PLEASE STOP giving Rick, or anyone else who views it as disrespect to the flag, shit because you CANNOT say they are wrong about their feelings old.

[oldschooler]

9 minutes ago, USN Bengal said:

If you have never placed a blank check payable with your life to this country, handed the folded flag taken from the coffin of a brother or sister in arms and gave it to their family, or had fellow service men and women who you loved die in service to this country...then you will NEVER understand what Rick, and many others including me, are talking about when they say it is disrespect.

 

So please, just please stop it, it's ridiculous.

 

The reasoning behind the protest is also understood by many like Rick and I, some of us have no problem with the protest, although we don't agree with the methodology.

 

So while I see your reasoning old, I do not agree with your end result. The protest can be BOTH disrespectful to some, and true to it's intent.

 

By the way - I believe it was meant to be disrespectful to the flag and get the maximum reaction possible. I completely understand why they would, as people of color are NOT treated as equals under the flag... even when they have fought and died for the flag.

 

So PLEASE STOP giving Rick, or anyone else who views it as disrespect to the flag, shit because you CANNOT say they are wrong about their feelings old.

 

 

Thank you for your service, but you said you were going to support and defend the Constitution.

Not just the parts you agree with. Even if YOU think it is a sign of disrespect, it's a 1st amendment right.

I posted a video from a guy who wrote the same blank check as you did.

At first he was pissed, but helped Kaepernick do it in a respectful way. Watch the video. And even that is too much for some of you.

And I can say what I want to. Rick posted several times his opinion on the topic. Only when I posted an opposing view,

did this thread get moved to where it is now. I know you did it. And to be honest, I was pissed and thought is was hypocritical bullshit.

 

Black people have been treated like second class citizens through out this country's history.

"All men are created equal". Well, except you guys. You're only 3/5ths of us. They're told how they protest is offensive.

They are having what they're doing turned in to something it's not. And I think that is part of our systemic racism problem.

 

If you don't agree with what they're doing or what they're saying fine. That is your right.  But please don't use your service as a reason to silence me or them.

Because you were supposed to write that blank check for our right to do it, whether you agree or not.

 

No disrespect at all to you and Rick. But considering you both served our country, I'd expect you of all people to support what they're doing.

And again, thank you for your service.

 

 

[USN Bengal]

Like I said, because you have never served, you CANNOT understand the brotherhood that binds us and the honor in which we hold the flag... it's quite simple really.

 

When you aren't able to understand even remotely how WE feel about our flag, but you castigate others for voicing their opinions, why would a double standard like that be adhered to?

 

If Rick has stated that there is no reason for them to protest at all, I could see where you might get some of this outlook, but I don't think he has. I know damn well I haven't, as a matter of fact I've stated that quite clearly many times.

 

For some reason, even though I have stated many times that I AGREE with their protest for the very reasons I stated earlier, you continue to infer that I am NOT supporting their right to protest.

 

I don't have to agree with their manner of protest to support the reasons they are protesting... why is that so hard to comprehend for so many people?

 

I will ALWAYS be under oath to to protect the Constitution, and the rights that ALL people have (however unequal that those rights are actually treated), and will ALWAYS stand up for those protesting inequalities. What makes you think I wouldn't? 

[USN Bengal]

By the way old, I think that you saying I moved the thread was "hypocritical bullshit" doesn't take it into account the FACT that I did exactly what I am supposed to do as a moderator.

 

We have a political forum for a reason, and at least a dozen political posts after I said to knock it off was enough for me. I actually had no problem leaving the thread there, as other mods evidently had no problem with it, or they aren't doing the job they said they would.

 

Either way, I do what I said I would, and if you find that hypocritical bullshit then that's on you.

 

I also know that you do not intend to disrespect anyone who served, I think I know you a little better than that after all these years. I don't mind disagreeing with you and I am NOT trying to silence you, but it's not right for you to tell others that what they feel is wrong, especially when you don't understand where they care coming from .

 

You're fine by me old, but I'm also a man of my word who does his best to keep his word... even when it pisses someone off that I respect.

[oldschooler]

23 minutes ago, USN Bengal said:

Like I said, because you have never served, you CANNOT understand the brotherhood that binds us and the honor in which we hold the flag... it's quite simple really.

 

When you aren't able to understand even remotely how WE feel about our flag, but you castigate others for voicing their opinions, why would a double standard like that be adhered to?

 

If Rick has stated that there is no reason for them to protest at all, I could see where you might get some of this outlook, but I don't think he has. I know damn well I haven't, as a matter of fact I've stated that quite clearly many times.

 

For some reason, even though I have stated many times that I AGREE with their protest for the very reasons I stated earlier, you continue to infer that I am NOT supporting their right to protest.

 

I don't have to agree with their manner of protest to support the reasons they are protesting... why is that so hard to comprehend for so many people?

 

I will ALWAYS be under oath to to protect the Constitution, and the rights that ALL people have (however unequal that those rights are actually treated), and will ALWAYS stand up for those protesting inequalities. What makes you think I wouldn't? 

 

 

You're acting like all vets share your views. They don't. I posted a video of a vet that worked with Kaepernick

and told him to kneel. He said that was a sign of respect.  It's hard to understand because you are part of the machine that has completely taken

the air out of the ball of what they're originally protesting and making it all about how you feel. Especially when you're talking boycotts, not signing players and the like.

[USN Bengal]

4 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

You're acting like all vets share your views. They don't. I posted a video of a vet that worked with Kaepernick

and told him to kneel. He said that was a sign of respect.  It's hard to understand because you are part of the machine that has completely taken

the air out of the ball of what they're originally protesting and making it all about how you feel. Especially when you're talking boycotts, not signing players and the like.

No... as I stated QUITE CLEARLY above, there are those who agree and those who don't. The serviceman who spoke to him told him HIS OPINION on what showed respect. That serviceman doesn't speak for all of us does he?

 

I am MORE COMFORTABLE that he kneeled AFTER he spoke to my brother in arms, and I SUPPORT the protest, as it is completely warranted. I still do not like the methodology but understand it and will defend it.

 

So I am the antithesis to what you are saying. I will support the protest because I believe in it, but STILL will never be comfortable with any disrespect to the flag that ONLY my fellow brothers and sisters in arms can truly understand. That being said, that same flag has EARNED the protest by this countries lies and hypocrisy, which is why I will FEEL however I do, but support those speaking out against injustice.

 

In the end, it's what people of color FEEL about their treatment that sparked the protest, isn't it?

 

It's because of what I know about how right they are, that while I don't like their methodology because of how I FEEL, my brothers and sisters of color will have my unwavering support.

 

Yes, we should've signed Reid because he's better than what he have on the field as a player, and he's braver than probably all of out players because he acted on his feelings even though he knew it might cost him millions.

[oldschooler]

Since the other thread was closed, I'll post my responses I was making here when it was being closed.

 

3 minutes ago, Hooky said:

The guy that's calling everybody racist is making homophobic insensitive remarks. Go figure.

 

Saying your head is up someone's up someones ass is not homophobic. I support gay people

to ruin their lives with marriage as much as I support it for straight people.

 

And again, where am calling everyone racists? I said my dad was very, very racist.

And so were a lot of my family members. A lot still are. All are Trump supporters.

I grew up in a household where it was common. I remember seeing the KKK wearing their

hoods and passing out pamphlets at what is now the Towne Mall in Middletown, Ohio.

Pointing out these black players kneeling for social and racial injustice and watching white

conservatives make it about the flag, like they make it about something different whenever

blacks have stood up for equality is not calling everyone racist no matter how many times you say it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, SF2 said:

Hey, second rung of the argument pyramid.  Ad Hominem attack. 

 

You all are attacking my character all because I point out racism and hypocrisy.

But by all means, continue. Like I said, I can do this shit all day.

 

 

[oldschooler]

Bengals owner Mike Brown seems more worried about Eric Reid's protest than domestic violence

Frank Schwab

,

Shutdown Corner•Apr 11, 2018, 2:18 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

0:04

 

1:15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NFL Network's Peter Schrager: Don't sleep on Cincinnati Bengals as potential challenger for Pittsburgh Stealers

 

 

 

 

Hopefully, everyone can agree upon this: Whatever you think of the various NFL player protests during the national anthem, they’re more constructive than domestic violence. Or wishing death upon a police officer.

That’s apparently not true in Cincinnati Bengals owner Mike Brown’s world, however.

The hypocrisy of the NFL not signing Colin Kaepernick, and now Eric Reid, over their protests has been spoken often over the past year. The exact moment it became tangible is when Brown told Reid he would prohibit Reed kneeling for the national anthem. That report came from Pro Football Talk, who said Brown had a conversation with Reid during his free-agent visit, and it almost exclusively was about his protests. Reid, Kaepernick and others have kneeled during the anthem to bring attention to social issues.

Other teams might still have some high moral ground on which to operate that way. The Bengals are not one of them.

Brown has welcomed to his team many players with spotty records. Running back Joe Mixon punched a female student at Oklahoma, it was on video, many teams reportedly took Mixon off their draft boards … and the Bengals drafted him in the second round last year. The Bengals have also employed Adam Jones, who famously got in trouble again and again with the NFL. Brown personally stood behind Jones after Jones was arrested in January of 2017 on misdemeanor counts of assault, disorderly conduct and obstructing official business, and a felony for harassment of a member of the medical staff in the justice center with a bodily substance. He allegedly spit on a nurse and told an officer,  “I hope you die tomorrow.”

Here’s what Brown said about Jones last year, when defending not cutting him.

“You are dealing with people’s lives here. It’s easy to sit on high and say, ‘Oh, terrible, terrible. Let’s bring down the sword,’” Brown told the Cincinnati Enquirer last year. “I think that’s an overreaction. I’m not condoning his actions. They were in all honestly embarrassing. He was out of control. He misbehaved. He made a fool of himself. No one knows that more than he does. I don’t know that I have been perfect in my lifetime, either.

“But I hope it ends up that he gets his life back and he has openly apologized. He knows full well what he has done to himself. He regrets it. But it’s been made into a public issue and maybe I am overly tolerant. If so, so be it.”

Yes, the man who made sure to call himself “overly tolerant” about a player allegedly spitting on a nurse and wishing death on a cop apparently has a line, and that line is peaceful protest during the national anthem. It’s not like Mixon and Jones are the only two Bengals who have been hired despite spotty legal records.

PFT’s report said Reid, who has said he’s not planning to kneel, was caught off guard by Brown’s questions and wasn’t willing in the moment to make a final decision to Brown. Reid later was asked by Bengals coach Marvin Lewis if he had any clarifications to make to what he said to Brown about the anthem. Reid said no, and the visit ended shortly after that PFT said. No contract offer was made.

The anthem issue has become so emotional for many people, some won’t see the hypocrisy being displayed by the Bengals. But it’s pretty startling. The owner of a team that has overlooked serious, sometimes criminal incidents off the field time and again is now fixated on whether Reid will stand for the anthem, although he has said he plans to. The priorities seem strange, but it’s a good bet many people won’t see that and will defend Brown.

And it becomes pretty easy to see why this topic has become such a contentious issue among NFL players.

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/bengals-owner-mike-brown-seems-worried-eric-reids-protest-domestic-violence-191817967.html?.tsrc=fauxdal

[|SF2|]

20 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

 

So you use your Mod powers to respond to me after a thread was closed?

 

Did you really expect me to respond to your defending the Confederates?

And racism that our entire country was built on? That was kind of my fucking point though out that thread.

B-b-but, the flag! Disrespect! Offensive!

LET'S KEEP POLITICS OUT OF THE FOOTBALL FORUM. Isn't that WHY you deleted all of my post?

 

I swear to god the fucking hypocrisy by the Moderators here is fucking staggering.

Yet I crossed a line? Good lord, you all make my head hurt.

No, I was typing while the thread was being locked.  Since I am a mod, it was still posted I guess.   I have since deleted it.  I am sorry if I offended you in any way Old.  God bless you. 

 

By the way, I didn't defend the Confederates, I simply explained what their perspective probably was.  They did not want to go to war with the North, that is why they were trying to pay for/ buy all the US Federal land that was in their newly minded Confederate States by negotiating with Lincoln.   There would be zero reason to pay for anything if the plan was to attack and destroy the North.    It was a horrible time for America but there is no doubt the reason the South tried to secede and the reason the war was fought was due to slavery.  All you have to do is read the Southern papers of the day to prove it.  Unfortunately, many young men, most who were never even close to wealthy enough to own a slave was sent to his death because of this.

 

 I think Lincoln did the right thing trying and succeeding at saving the Union but came at a horrible price.  Much of that blame goes to the Confederate Generals who knew they were beaten yet refused to surrender.   The result was the utter annihilation of large areas of the south and way more dead then was necessary.   The scale of the death and destruction left a tremendous amount of hatred for the North and blacks.   

[oldschooler]

1 minute ago, SF2 said:

No, I was typing while the thread was being locked.  Since I am a mod, it was still posted I guess.   I have since deleted it.  I am sorry if I offended you in any way Old.  God bless you. 

 

 

I never once wanted it to get personal. That is never my intent, anytime on any subject.

I am not offended. But thank you for the apology. I apologize too.

 

I am sure anyone would have been upset to see a thread move as soon as they respond.

And had multiple posts deleted the next day. And then have a Mod single them out as

he closes a thread and attacks them. None of that offends me. I don't even know what

I would call it. Anyway. Thanks again. I never meant to offend you or anyone else.

And I sure as hell wasn't calling everyone racist. Good day to you.

[oldschooler]

 

[oldschooler]

 

[oldschooler]

 

[|SF2|]

22 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

 

That is a pretty good read. Spot on about our franchise. 

[oldschooler]

 

[oldschooler]

 

[T-Dub]

On 4/11/2018 at 9:16 AM, SF2 said:

 

 

So lets recap:  13.3% of the population is committing 50% of the murders but are only 25% of the people killed by police.   Meanwhile, whites and Hispanics who committed 46.5% of the murders made up 64.4% of those killed by police.     

 

Have a nice day.

 

I think we've been over this before, but you are terribly misreading those FBI stats.  What they show is that 13.3% of the population are being arrested for 50% of the murders.  That's a pretty crucial difference! Unless you think every person arrested is also guilty, and also that every murder leads to an arrest, those stats are meaningless... at best.  At any rate they do not say what you think they say.  In fact if you read the methodology in the first few pages the FBI points out very clearly that many police departments don't report stats to them at all. 

 

It's a bit tiring, how many times I've had to point this out in arguments about policing & race.  There are numerous studies available on the topic, with much clearer and more solid methods, from the DOJ and all sorts of other organizations.. if you care to look.  That's really up to you, but please don't parrot these tired alt-right talking points without taking the time to "do the math" yourself, so to speak.  To your credit I think you're better than that.

 

You can all go back to arguing now.

[oldschooler]

 

[fluhartz]

On 4/13/2018 at 3:31 PM, oldschooler said:

 

that shit is disgusting...

How can someone have that many offenses against them and still be walking the streets?

 

so sick of the violence in this world

[Jamie_B]

On 4/13/2018 at 2:23 PM, SF2 said:

That is a pretty good read. Spot on about our franchise. 

Yeah that was a good read and pretty accurate as to my complaints about where people are drawing the line.