Urban Meyer, anyone?

[|Bunghole|]

7 hours ago, thezerawkid said:

Pete Carroll?

 

6 hours ago, schotzee said:

Yeah it happens sometimes. Jimmy Johnson, Bobby Ross and Jim Harbaugh were all relatively successful as well.

 

You guys are forgetting the best collegiate to NFL head coach ever: Chip Kelly. 

 

6 hours ago, thezerawkid said:

 

 

Brass tacks: is Urban likely an asshole because he had, at least, some cursory awareness and apparently decided against any personal involvement? Yeah. Did he break any laws or rules in doing so? I’m not entirely sure, but it looks to me like that’s not likely.

As Roger Goodell and the NFL have already proven, there is plenty of precedent for a sports league to let their rules supersede actual laws when it comes to governing player and coaches behavior.

 

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

FWIW, I think OSU will do everything possible not to fire Urban Meyer.  He's the second best coach in college football and still in his prime.  In placing him on leave, they bought time for an investigation and more likely, for the situation to calm down.  The next week or so will be rough and the mob wants his head.  They will let the investigation proceed and eventually the media will move on to another story.  After that point, if no additional evidence comes out, OSU can credibly say that they have no direct evidence against Meyer.  He might get a fine and suspension as a token penalty, but he keeps his job.  

I don't know man, when is the last time you heard of a sports coach being put on "paid administrative leave" and not get fired? Or get to come back as if nothing happened?

[thezerawkid]

1 hour ago, SF2 said:

But then it is just as easy to say this:  All of your coach's wives knew and most likely most of your coaches knew as well.  Your wife knew.  If you, the guy we are paying $7 million a year to lead the Ohio State Football program did not know then you simply are not the leader we thought you were.  Great leaders have great subordinates who keep them abreast of what is going on.  If Urban's defense is nobody told him, and it is actually true, then he is not the leader we thought he was. 

 

The simple explanation is almost always the truth.  Most likely Urban knew exactly what was going on.  He was hoping the two could work things out so he didn't have to fire his friend's (Earle Bruce's) grandson and not only ruin his college coaching career but also create an economic strain to a married couple with children.   He was hoping for the best but when it comes to domestic abuse, there is rarely a good outcome. 

There are still a lot of dots to connect, a lot of proving things, to fully support your point.

[Inigo Montoya]

1 hour ago, Bunghole said:

 

 

You guys are forgetting the best collegiate to NFL head coach ever: Chip Kelly. 

 

As Roger Goodell and the NFL have already proven, there is plenty of precedent for a sports league to let their rules supersede actual laws when it comes to governing player and coaches behavior.

 

I don't know man, when is the last time you heard of a sports coach being put on "paid administrative leave" and not get fired? Or get to come back as if nothing happened?

I've seen plenty of guys dodge serious penalties when they are the best at what they do, in all walks of life.  Meyer is an all time great college coach.  It won't surprise me at all if he keeps his job.  OSU is only reacting to this situation.  If they can ride out the initial firestorm, they will use any wiggle room they have to keep him.  His wife might lose her job and he might get a token suspension or fine, but I believe they want to keep him.  This isn't like Pitino where they have recordings and wire records.

[|Bunghole|]

15 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I've seen plenty of guys dodge serious penalties when they are the best at what they do, in all walks of life.  Meyer is an all time great college coach.  It won't surprise me at all if he keeps his job.  OSU is only reacting to this situation.  If they can ride out the initial firestorm, they will use any wiggle room they have to keep him.  His wife might lose her job and he might get a token suspension or fine, but I believe they want to keep him.  This isn't like Pitino where they have recordings and wire records.

You've seen "plenty of guys"? Did any of them happen to be DIV-I coaches or players or NFL coaches or players? Coaches or players that now play in the shadow of how Tressel got fired over comparatively meaningless BS (other than lying about it, which is what Meyer is doing)? Or Joe Paterno? Or Ray Rice and how he got off light and the NFL privately vowed never to go that route again due to the PR backlash? How about Big Jen? He was never convicted by the law for anything, yet he still got suspended for 4 games by Goodell for "conduct detrimental"  to the league. 

 

#MeToo has fanned those flames into a media frenzy. Maybe that's what it took for change to happen.

[Inigo Montoya]

2 minutes ago, Bunghole said:

You've seen "plenty of guys"? Did any of them happen to be DIV-I coaches or players or NFL coaches or players? Coaches or players that now play in the shadow of how Tressel got fired over comparatively meaningless BS (other than lying about it, which is what Meyer is doing)? Or Joe Paterno? Or Ray Rice and how he got off light and the NFL privately vowed never to go that route again due to the PR backlash? How about Big Jen? He was never convicted by the law for anything, yet he still got suspended for 4 games by Goodell for "conduct detrimental"  to the league. 

 

#MeToo has fanned those flames into a media frenzy. Maybe that's what it took for change to happen.

Michigan State didn't fire Izzo or Dantonio after players and even assistant coaches sexually assaulted people and they did nothing.  There's no rule that says you have to give in to mob rule or the media.  

[|Bunghole|]

Just now, Inigo Montoya said:

Michigan State didn't fire Izzo or Dantonio after players and even assistant coaches sexually assaulted people and they did nothing.  There's no rule that says you have to give in to mob rule or the media.  

I know, but:

 

OSU fired Jim Tressell for lying about an offense that is less egregious than Meyer's

 

Urban Meyer lied. I heard on the radio today that the ESPN reporter that broke the story DID in fact have transcripts of text messages, etc. So if those prove that Meyer led to OSU, he HAS to be gone, right?

[Inigo Montoya]

7 minutes ago, Bunghole said:

I know, but:

 

OSU fired Jim Tressell for lying about an offense that is less egregious than Meyer's

 

Urban Meyer lied. I heard on the radio today that the ESPN reporter that broke the story DID in fact have transcripts of text messages, etc. So if those prove that Meyer led to OSU, he HAS to be gone, right?

Incorrect.  The texts being reported are to Meyer's wife.  Like I said earlier, it hard to believe that she never told him, but right now they don't have evidence that she did.  Hearsay doesn't fly in court and it could be easy for OSU to say the evidence doesn't prove it.

[|Bunghole|]

13 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Incorrect.  The texts being reported are to Meyer's wife.  Like I said earlier, it hard to believe that she never told him, but right now they don't have evidence that she did.  Hearsay doesn't fly in court and it could be easy for OSU to say the evidence doesn't prove it.

How are the commissioner of the NFL and his counterpart in the NCAA any different from each other when it comes to implementing arbitrary "rules" as opposed to "waiting for the "legal action to take it's course?

[UncleEarl]

6 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Don't forget that this is the guy who protected Arron Hernandez, and his Florida teams were rife with criminals in a town where Gator football is god and players get a slap on the wrist. He bailed on Florida because of his heal... No wait, it was because he could see NCAA sanctions coming.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-09-17/sports/os-florida-gators-arrests-list-20100915_1_frankie-hammond-second-degree-misdemeanor-charge-misdemeanor-possession

 

This is why I don't buy Meyer's story.  He has a history of dirtbags in his employ.  Like I said before, I gave him a pass on the Florida stuff.  Now it's repeated behavior. 

 

I really don't get blaming "me too" on this either.  It's not like this was a one-off situation with the guy.  It happened over and over with police visits, court orders, and pictures.  I agree there are some situations where men are automatically drug through the mud with some sketchy evidence.  This isn't one of those situations.

[Hooky]

6 hours ago, Bunghole said:

I know, but:

 

OSU fired Jim Tressell for lying about an offense that is less egregious than Meyer's

 

Urban Meyer lied. I heard on the radio today that the ESPN reporter that broke the story DID in fact have transcripts of text messages, etc. So if those prove that Meyer led to OSU, he HAS to be gone, right?

Apples and oranges. Tressel covered up an NCAA rule. Urban allegedly failed to follow a school policy of reporting domestic abuse. If I'm not mistaken.

[Hooky]

My son texted me these. Sorry, they may be out of order and not complete, but covers the gist. Just putting this out there. Grain of salt. I'm just wondering why it's always Big Ten coaches. Apparently SEC coaches are clean as a whistle. Or have much better damage control. Or are not as rabidly attacked on allegations.

[|SF2|]

2 hours ago, Hooky said:

My son texted me these. Sorry, they may be out of order and not complete, but covers the gist. Just putting this out there. Grain of salt. I'm just wondering why it's always Big Ten coaches. Apparently SEC coaches are clean as a whistle. Or have much better damage control. Or are not as rabidly attacked on allegations.

if this is factual then it is going to become a circus. 

[|SF2|]

4 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

This is why I don't buy Meyer's story.  He has a history of dirtbags in his employ.  Like I said before, I gave him a pass on the Florida stuff.  Now it's repeated behavior. 

 

I really don't get blaming "me too" on this either.  It's not like this was a one-off situation with the guy.  It happened over and over with police visits, court orders, and pictures.  I agree there are some situations where men are automatically drug through the mud with some sketchy evidence.  This isn't one of those situations.

I am not blaming #metoo, just saying that the "good ole boy's network" and days of simply overlooking what the successful coach (director, actor, athlete, boss) did are coming to an end which isn't a bad thing.  What is a bad thing is that the pendulum swung too far in some cases.  I am not an Al Franken fan but what he was forced to step down was pretty ridiculous.  Never touched anyone and there was a group of people standing by as he simulated grabbing a co-worker's breasts.  Keep in mind this was while he was a comedian on SNL, not as Senator. 

[Hooky]

25 minutes ago, SF2 said:

I am not blaming #metoo, just saying that the "good ole boy's network" and days of simply overlooking what the successful coach (director, actor, athlete, boss) did are coming to an end which isn't a bad thing.  What is a bad thing is that the pendulum swung too far in some cases.  I am not an Al Franken fan but what he was forced to step down was pretty ridiculous.  Never touched anyone and there was a group of people standing by as he simulated grabbing a co-worker's breasts.  Keep in mind this was while he was a comedian on SNL, not as Senator. 

I don't like Franken either, but I agree with you. It's like if you don't agree with a certain metoo allegation, you are just as bad as the accused. They're not up for debate. Thus, you have to prove you're on board and take the guy down. Franken in this case. 

[Hooky]

46 minutes ago, SF2 said:

if this is factual then it is going to become a circus. 

Yeah, not sure how factual. My question is if she didn't think it was serious enough to press charges, why should Urban be expected to do something about it?

[thezerawkid]

10 hours ago, Bunghole said:

You've seen "plenty of guys"? Did any of them happen to be DIV-I coaches or players or NFL coaches or players? Coaches or players that now play in the shadow of how Tressel got fired over comparatively meaningless BS (other than lying about it, which is what Meyer is doing)? Or Joe Paterno? Or Ray Rice and how he got off light and the NFL privately vowed never to go that route again due to the PR backlash? How about Big Jen? He was never convicted by the law for anything, yet he still got suspended for 4 games by Goodell for "conduct detrimental"  to the league. 

 

#MeToo has fanned those flames into a media frenzy. Maybe that's what it took for change to happen.

Rick Pitino? Bob Knight? Both were eventually sacked, but they dodged bullets for far worse conduct, direct offenses that had plenty of proof around them. The list goes on, others can jump in here,

 

Tressel’s offense, subjectively, perhaps was not as egregious, but, it was proven as directly related to his team. Of course he got shitcanned.

[thezerawkid]

10 hours ago, Bunghole said:

How are the commissioner of the NFL and his counterpart in the NCAA any different from each other when it comes to implementing arbitrary "rules" as opposed to "waiting for the "legal action to take it's course?

The NCAA has been proven to be absolutely feckless and powerless when it comes to leveling anything resembling law and order. 

 

Case in point: it has taken FBI investigations into fraudulent activities to get even a slight amount of movement in NCAA basketball. Roger Goodell sneezes and owners line up to catch the shit that comes out to smear around their clubhouses. Even if Goodell is actually allergic to what’s best for his league.

[thezerawkid]

I was just about to propose a separate narrative relating to the complainant, and also, the importance in limiting the impact of the court of public opinion. 

 

We know very little about the history and what has been to proven to have occurred between these two people. Text messages, in particular, are a terrible form of communication to judge. People are programmed use punctuation and emojis, just because, even if they don’t mean it (think: “lol”). Just as soon as I was about to propose alcoholism or other various mental health issues as being potential factors, this report from Bucknuts surfaces. To be clear, I don’t know if either side is true, as far as I know, I have read as much as anyone else. But, like almost every contentious situation in life, the third side of the story usually contains the truth.

[|westside bengal|]

55 minutes ago, thezerawkid said:

Rick Pitino? Bob Knight? Both were eventually sacked, but they dodged bullets for far worse conduct, direct offenses that had plenty of proof around them. The list goes on, others can jump in here,

 

Tressel’s offense, subjectively, perhaps was not as egregious, but, it was proven as directly related to his team. Of course he got shitcanned.

Rick Pitino....Bob Knight------big difference----Little Ricky f**cked the pussy-----Bob Knight choked the pussy.

[|Bunghole|]

4 hours ago, westside bengal said:

Rick Pitino....Bob Knight------big difference----Little Ricky f**cked the pussy-----Bob Knight choked the pussy.

And to think what he did to those towels...and that chair! Preposterous! 

[UncleEarl]

8 hours ago, SF2 said:

I am not blaming #metoo, just saying that the "good ole boy's network" and days of simply overlooking what the successful coach (director, actor, athlete, boss) did are coming to an end which isn't a bad thing.  What is a bad thing is that the pendulum swung too far in some cases.  I am not an Al Franken fan but what he was forced to step down was pretty ridiculous.  Never touched anyone and there was a group of people standing by as he simulated grabbing a co-worker's breasts.  Keep in mind this was while he was a comedian on SNL, not as Senator. 

I think we mostly agree here. My comments about me too were related to other posts. Sorry for the ambiguity. 

 

Agree about Franken. That’s a textbook example of “sketchy evidence.”  A political assasination. I don’t feel bad for Franken though, he would have gleefully participated in the same mob mentality if it happened to a republican.