Potential on Offense

[Catfish Bob]

Anyone think this offensive unit could be something great?  

I've missed the first games but on paper this is looking like it could be a high power offense to the likes we have not seen in years.  Maybe I'm just too excited with Ross being 💯 and reading about the o-line looking like a real slobber knocker of a group. 

 

[|SF2|]

If the oline is even average and Eifert is healthy  we should have a top 10 offense.

[Rick]

Our offensive line is in 4th place in the AFCN. If we have one or two injuries in our offensive line, we are in serious trouble. 

 

We could have drafted an offensive lineman in round 2, but did not. Think about that!

[UncleEarl]

25 minutes ago, Rick said:

Our offensive line is in 4th place in the AFCN. If we have one or two injuries in our offensive line, we are in serious trouble. 

 

We could have drafted an offensive lineman in round 2, but did not. Think about that!

The Bengals drafted offensive linemen in 2015 in the first and second round.  Think about that!

[thezerawkid]

26 minutes ago, Rick said:

 

 

We could have drafted an offensive lineman in round 2, but did not. Think about that!

Why? What good does that do us?

[T-Dub]

3 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

The Bengals drafted offensive linemen in 2015 in the first and second round.  Think about that!

 

And they knew by the end of last season they weren't fit to start, or we wouldn't have brought in 2 replacement OT's.   What I don't understand is betting on both of them to be long-term answers with nothing behind them but the 2 guys they just benched.  At some point this season we are probably going to forced into playing either Ced or Fisher, or even both. Maybe for a stretch of games or maybe just for a critical 3rd down. 

 

In other words, we're still one stubbed toe away from starting Ogbuehi.  Think about that!

 

The rest of the offense looks great, but they're only going as far as this OL takes them.   I've seen an obvious improvement in how they are playing; as far as firing off the ball, getting a hat on someone, finishing blocks & so on.  The talent level on the other hand looks like it's gone from clear F to maybe a D.   They need to get a lot better if we're going to see the postseason and given both these "new" OT's are vets, I'm not sure they haven't peaked.

[UncleEarl]

2 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

And they knew by the end of last season they weren't fit to start, or we wouldn't have brought in 2 replacement OT's.   What I don't understand is betting on both of them to be long-term answers with nothing behind them but the 2 guys they just benched.  At some point this season we are probably going to forced into playing either Ced or Fisher, or even both. Maybe for a stretch of games or maybe just for a critical 3rd down. 

 

In other words, we're still one stubbed toe away from starting Ogbuehi.  Think about that!

I get that.  Big time.  What I was alluding to is that the Bengals need help on the OL and they can't count on draft picks.  This is how drafting for need can jump up and bite you in the ass.  We all hope Price can handle the job.  How did that work out for the last two centers the Bengals drafted?  Drafting an OL for need in the second round could be a double whammy.  First, if the guy sucks you still have a weak spot on the line.  Second, since you passed on a better player to draft for need you screwed over another part of your team. 

 

Hope to heaven we don't see a lot of either Ogbuehi or Fisher this season. 

[T-Dub]

1 minute ago, UncleEarl said:

I get that.  Big time.  What I was alluding to is that the Bengals need help on the OL and they can't count on draft picks.  This is how drafting for need can jump up and bite you in the ass.  We all hope Price can handle the job.  How did that work out for the last two centers the Bengals drafted?  Drafting an OL for need in the second round could be a double whammy.  First, if the guy sucks you still have a weak spot on the line.  Second, since you passed on a better player to draft for need you screwed over another part of your team. 

 

Hope to heaven we don't see a lot of either Ogbuehi or Fisher this season. 

 

I guess I have a hard time believing there wasn't a better OT prospect than Ced somewhere in that 2nd round. 

[|High School Harry|]

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

In other words, we're still one stubbed toe away from starting Ogbuehi.  Think about that!

 

 

54 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

I guess I have a hard time believing there wasn't a better OT prospect than Ced somewhere in that 2nd round. 

That's why I'm reserved on making comment on the Bengals season.  Injuries happen.  Glenn has a history and we would not have gotten him if not for Buffalo's doubts.

 

Orlando Brown slid and was available when we picked in the second round.  Read one report where he is with the program and in good shape and doing well for the team that picked him.  Will edit post if I find it again.  Not sure why he dropped so far so fast.

 

Drafting Bates in the second round was not that baffling to me.  I don't think Iloka and especially Williams are all that great shakes.  Home town heroes who aren't that impressive to the rest of the league.  I don't think Bates will be a back up safety for long.  Yeah, maybe the whole season only contributing on special teams per Marvin's love of playing the old boys, but I want to see him on the field more.

[|SF2|]

23 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

 

That's why I'm reserved on making comment on the Bengals season.  Injuries happen.  Glenn has a history and we would not have gotten him if not for Buffalo's doubts.

 

Orlando Brown slid and was available when we picked in the second round.  Read one report where he is with the program and in good shape and doing well for the team that picked him.  Will edit post if I find it again.  Not sure why he dropped so far so fast.

 

Drafting Bates in the second round was not that baffling to me.  I don't think Iloka and especially Williams are all that great shakes.  Home town heroes who aren't that impressive to the rest of the league.  I don't think Bates will be a back up safety for long.  Yeah, maybe the whole season only contributing on special teams per Marvin's love of playing the old boys, but I want to see him on the field more.

Brown had a terrible combine.  Since then he has been working his ass off and dropped his body fat from 31% to 19%.  Is having and excellent pre season and will probably be the starting right tackle.   Probably the steal of the draft.  BTW, keep an eye on the 20 year old guard from Iowa, James Daniels.  Drafted by the Bears in round 2.  He is going to be a star. 

[T-Dub]

44 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

 

That's why I'm reserved on making comment on the Bengals season.  Injuries happen.  Glenn has a history and we would not have gotten him if not for Buffalo's doubts.

 

Orlando Brown slid and was available when we picked in the second round.  Read one report where he is with the program and in good shape and doing well for the team that picked him.  Will edit post if I find it again.  Not sure why he dropped so far so fast.

 

Drafting Bates in the second round was not that baffling to me.  I don't think Iloka and especially Williams are all that great shakes.  Home town heroes who aren't that impressive to the rest of the league.  I don't think Bates will be a back up safety for long.  Yeah, maybe the whole season only contributing on special teams per Marvin's love of playing the old boys, but I want to see him on the field more.

 

I did notice Bates come up & make a nice hit during the preseason game. My criticism of that pick wasn't really a knock on him so much as the "think happy thoughts" strategy for building a roster.  Eifert as well as the OL, & other injury-prone or underperforming players before them.

 

Far as Brown dropping into the 2nd round..  I think teams worry as much about what grade Mel Kiper is going to give them as they do stocking NFL-capable talent.   Some guy slips a bit in the shuttle drill or is exposed for having a drunk & disorderly from a college bar fight and suddenly he's in free fall.  There's so much hype around the draft now, where guys get picked is only tangentially related to their athletic ability.  Simply picking the best football player on the board is a thing of the past.

[Inigo Montoya]

9 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

I guess I have a hard time believing there wasn't a better OT prospect than Ced somewhere in that 2nd round. 

 

Who knows if any of these guys will play well and hindsight is always 20/20.  You were in favor of over investment in the OL prior to the draft and personally I would not have had a problem with it had they gone that route.  I am comfortable with letting Pollack work with the new players we added and hope he can get more out of what we already have.  I never viewed this as a situation where everything could be fixed in one year.  Too much has to go right in terms of health, development, and opportunity.  Getting rid of Alexander and Bodine was a good start at least.  

[|kennethmw|]

Can we pin this thread so we can refer to it all season?

[Rick]

My concern is we may have only below average offensive linemen at best for the second half of the season if we lose a couple of offensive linemen. This is a big deal. We could have drafted another offensive lineman. That’s my concern. We go into the second half of the season with no line help and end up not getting to an 8-8 season.

[|Bunghole|]

19 hours ago, Catfish Bob said:

Anyone think this offensive unit could be something great?  

I've missed the first games but on paper this is looking like it could be a high power offense to the likes we have not seen in years.  Maybe I'm just too excited with Ross being 💯 and reading about the o-line looking like a real slobber knocker of a group. 

 

 

15 hours ago, SF2 said:

If the oline is even average and Eifert is healthy  we should have a top 10 offense.

I'm drinking that Kool Aid. I think they have a shot at being a really dynamic offense. Health is something every team needs to have at least a decent modicum of in order to be successful, I kinda feel we're due for a healthy streak.

14 hours ago, Rick said:

Our offensive line is in 4th place in the AFCN.

How do you figure that? What stats are you basing this on? We can't even play a regular season game before we decide they suck now?

[Catfish Bob]

Even if Eifert goes down again Croft has been good enough. CJ has shown flashes of potential in the past and butter fingers at times. 

On paper the offense is stacked at skill positions.

 

[UncleEarl]

12 hours ago, Rick said:

My concern is we may have only below average offensive linemen at best for the second half of the season if we lose a couple of offensive linemen. This is a big deal. We could have drafted another offensive lineman. That’s my concern. We go into the second half of the season with no line help and end up not getting to an 8-8 season.

I share your concern, but if you need an OL in that season, the draft, particularly after the first round, isn't the place to get one.  How many non first round pick OL do you see playing well in their rookie year?  Very few.  They should have grabbed another in FA.

[|SF2|]

2 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

I share your concern, but if you need an OL in that season, the draft, particularly after the first round, isn't the place to get one.  How many non first round pick OL do you see playing well in their rookie year?  Very few.  They should have grabbed another in FA.

Surprisingly, its about 60% to 40% split.  In Fisher's class 4 of the 6 had decent rookie years and started many games.  Those 4 have become good lineman.  Fisher and Ty Sambrailo are the 2 who have sucked.  2016 it is 2 out of 3 that have panned out.  Last year, 3 of the 5 were starters with the other 2 being injured and not playing.   Plenty of decent 2nd round guys became starters their freshman year and didn't suck like Fisher.  We simply picked 2 duds most analysts thought would be good players. 

 

 

[Rick]

14 hours ago, Bunghole said:

How do you figure that? What stats are you basing this on? We can't even play a regular season game before we decide they suck now?

I have no figures, I am looking at the linemen the Stealers, Browns, and Ravens have. They are better, and they have more. (I have no figures, but I think AJ is the best receiver in the AFCN.) 

 

Do you seriously think our offensive line is better than any team in the AFCN? 

[Jamie_B]

I need about 4 regular season games to see where we are. Preseason doesnt mean much to me.

[Rick]

On 8/13/2018 at 6:44 AM, SF2 said:

If the oline is even average and Eifert is healthy  we should have a top 10 offense.

Our offensive line at best will not be average. You know that, I know that, and everyone knows that. Our offensive line will be in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL. Yes, I said that, and I believe it.

 

The only hope we have to climb up to the upper of the bottom 1/3 (30% to 33%) is to trade one of our better players before the season begins. 

 

Look, I am as upset as the next Bengals fan. I see the other teams in the AFCN able to have above average talent on their offensive lines, but we cannot.

[UncleEarl]

53 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Surprisingly, its about 60% to 40% split.  In Fisher's class 4 of the 6 had decent rookie years and started many games.  Those 4 have become good lineman.  Fisher and Ty Sambrailo are the 2 who have sucked.  2016 it is 2 out of 3 that have panned out.  Last year, 3 of the 5 were starters with the other 2 being injured and not playing.   Plenty of decent 2nd round guys became starters their freshman year and didn't suck like Fisher.  We simply picked 2 duds most analysts thought would be good players. 

 

 

Just because they played in the rookie season doesn't mean they were any good at that point.  My point is if you want a decent OL right now you are better off in FA than in the draft.  Sure, a second round pick might be a good lineman in a year or two, but they will probably be below average or even worse as a rookie. 

[T-Dub]

38 minutes ago, Rick said:

I see the other teams in the AFCN able to have above average talent on their offensive lines, but we cannot.

 

We did, but we let them walk.  We then burned 2 high draft picks on OL but the shlub doing the scouting had them ranked based on ketchup bottle-handling.  Now he's gone, thankfully, even though his picks are still the top backups to two very questionable vets.  We did also draft a center in the first round.

 

So I think we're trying to have a good OL, it's just that the guy who was most responsible for that was a numpty.  

[UncleEarl]

37 minutes ago, Rick said:

Our offensive line at best will not be average. You know that, I know that, and everyone knows that. Our offensive line will be in the bottom 1/3 of the NFL. Yes, I said that, and I believe it.

 

The only hope we have to climb up to the upper of the bottom 1/3 (30% to 33%) is to trade one of our better players before the season begins. 

 

Look, I am as upset as the next Bengals fan. I see the other teams in the AFCN able to have above average talent on their offensive lines, but we cannot.

They have a chance to be average.  If Glenn stays healthy and Price works out they could be OK.  The players the Bengals had a LT and C last season were simply awful. 

 

Frankly, while the Bengals have had a few excellent offensive linemen, their line has been below average for a long time.  Even with a below average line the Bengals have put together some good offensive seasons.  With that in mind we can hope for a close to average OL and go from there. 

 

It's not like NFL teams trade OL starters.  They are usually held to very tightly unless money is an issue.

[|SF2|]

35 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

Just because they played in the rookie season doesn't mean they were any good at that point.  My point is if you want a decent OL right now you are better off in FA than in the draft.  Sure, a second round pick might be a good lineman in a year or two, but they will probably be below average or even worse as a rookie. 

The guys who played all had decent AVs their rookie years which is way more than can be said for Ced or Fisher.   Fisher has a career AV of 5 after 3 years while most of his draft mates got 6 or higher their rookie year alone.   We did pick up Glenn and Hart in FA which is more than we usually do.  Don't forget, we still have Eric Winston on speed dial.  Yeahhhh buddy.