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32 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

I can agree with that to some extent... The safety market isn't paying $5 Mil for better guys that Illoka right now. I get that.

What I don't get is waiting until there's no use for the money to save money. Apparently, even with the weak safety market, they couldn't find a guy better to replace him in March. So we drafted Bates... Great, but we're still an injury away from starting Fej. Is the dead cap situation different if we release the guy in February? We were already $15Mil under the cap. Sure, it's expensive depth, but where else are you spending the money? And it has to be spent somewhere.

And frankly, do you really trust this team? They had Ced and Fischer in the building for a year and couldn't figure out that neither of them was 10% of the player Whitworth was. They jettisoned Reggie Nelson because Shawn Williams was "ready"... And so on.

The Brown family keeps this team 10-20M under the cap every year, and that's including their cute lil' front loaded extensions. Andy and AJ aren't getting any younger. We currently are at #7 for available cap space while being #28 in dead money. I mean, when do you push all of your chips in and try to win something? How can you be disappointed with Illoka when the team is so fond of mediocrity? If Williams or Bates suffers a week 15 injury with us looking at a wild card, would you rather have Illoka waiting in the wings or Clayton Speculum?

2015: 10M #13 in available cap space
2016: 10M #19 in available cap space
2017: 15M #11 in available cap space

2018: 20M #7 in available cap space

For a team that's trying to get over the hump, we've only dipped into the bottom half of league cap space once. And I'm well past it just being cheap, this is actively stupid. They're so busy saving money for their trophy case they forgot to actually win anything. They've convinced themselves that they're "smart cap managers" and they are totally winning on those Excel spreadsheets. As Katie has reminded us, you just don't know how hard it is to run an NFL team. 

Maybe in addition to the Lombardi, we should award the "Blackburn" once a decade for the team that has saved the most cap room and had the least dead money. Then we could finally win something.

My guess is they are about to sign Geno or Dunlap.  The reason I say that is if they carry 21 mil of cap space, that will put them at around 40 mil for 2 years.    You have to spend 89% of the cap space over 4 years and 40 mil in the hole is a lot for only 2 years.  We don't want the Cleveland scenario  in which they basically handed Brock Osweiller $16 million dollars to reach the 89% threshold. 

 

 Keep in mind, they can NOT let both Atkins and Dunlap get to Free Agency if they want to keep both.   They can sign one now and use the Franchise Tag on the other.  You are crazy if you don't think a team with massive cap space (Browns, Colts, 49ers, Texans, Titans) won't overspend to get one of them.   Both players' agents want to get something done now because they are competing against each other and neither wants to get tagged next year. 

 

 If you don't sign one now, your losing one of them.   The obvious one to sign is Atkins just because he is a HOF talent.   Both positions will carry about a $17 mil price tag if tagged. 

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12 minutes ago, SF2 said:

My guess is they are about to sign Geno or Dunlap.  The reason I say that is if they carry 21 mil of cap space, that will put them at around 40 mil for 2 years.    You have to spend 89% of the cap space over 4 years and 40 mil in the hole is a lot for only 2 years.  We don't want the Cleveland scenario  in which they basically handed Brock Osweiller $16 million dollars to reach the 89% threshold. 

 

 Keep in mind, they can NOT let both Atkins and Dunlap get to Free Agency if they want to keep both.   They can sign one now and use the Franchise Tag on the other.  You are crazy if you don't think a team with massive cap space (Browns, Colts, 49ers, Texans, Titans) won't overspend to get one of them.   Both players' agents want to get something done now because they are competing against each other and neither wants to get tagged next year. 

 

 If you don't sign one now, your losing one of them.   The obvious one to sign is Atkins just because he is a HOF talent.   Both positions will carry about a $17 mil price tag if tagged. 

Geno is already at $9.5M, Dunlap is at $7.3M.

Assuming you're right, and the Bengals plan to keep a comfy $5M, because they're NOT cheap or stupid, between the two them they're getting $15M in raises? Or are we going to put a huge workout bonus in there that pays out of this years cap space to make more room for next year?

Scenario one is far fetched. https://overthecap.com/what-is-the-value-of-dt-geno-atkins/ Estimated value of $10.3M... Ok, there's $800K accounted for. If Dunlap got the franchise tag, he'd get a $10M raise. But we're talking about Mike Brown and players turning 30.... Dunlap is expected to be in the $15M range to resign. Honestly, he's good but he's not JJ Watt. (Of course, MJ93's $6.1M contract comes off the books next year... Kinda nullifies the hit.)

Most likely they'll do as they do and frontload this year's cap space into next year. Gotta be fiscally sound so we can keep our Super Bowl 2046 dynasty together!

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4 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Scenario one is far fetched. https://overthecap.com/what-is-the-value-of-dt-geno-atkins/ Estimated value of $10.3M... 


FYI that was a 2013 article projecting his last extension, which was a pretty accurate projection considering Geno got $10.7M. The 4-3 DT market has gone crazy in the last few years: 

https://overthecap.com/position/4-3-defensive-tackle

 

Fletcher Cox at $17M is the current leader. Getting Geno extended before Aaron Donald completely breaks the market ($20M?) is important. I imagine Geno will get around $16M.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Scenario one is far fetched. https://overthecap.com/what-is-the-value-of-dt-geno-atkins/ Estimated value of $10.3M... 


FYI that was a 2013 article projecting his last extension, which was a pretty accurate projection considering Geno got $10.7M. The 4-3 DT market has gone crazy in the last few years: 

https://overthecap.com/position/4-3-defensive-tackle

 

Fletcher Cox at $17M is the current leader. Getting Geno extended before Aaron Donald completely breaks the market ($20M?) is important. I imagine Geno will get around $16M.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, SlantNGo said:


FYI that was a 2013 article projecting his last extension, which was a pretty accurate projection considering Geno got $10.7M. The 4-3 DT market has gone crazy in the last few years: 

https://overthecap.com/position/4-3-defensive-tackle

 

Fletcher Cox at $17M is the current leader. Getting Geno extended before Aaron Donald completely breaks the market ($20M?) is important. I imagine Geno will get around $16M.

Good catch. And my bad.

Kawann Short at $80M with almost half of it guaranteed? I've been to busy to stay on top of the NFL like the old days, but that's crazy money and I've never heard of the guy! :wow:

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22 minutes ago, BengalFanInTO said:

Looks like the Raiders are the first team to be rumoured to be throwing their hat in to obtain Iloka. Makes obvious sense with the numerous ties to the team.

Appears to be a class act. I wish him the best. He'll be employed again very soon I believe. Chargers just lost a starting safety to injury I believe.

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No one should have been "stunned" or "shocked" about this move. They tried to sign Kurt Coleman, looked very closely at Eric Reid and drafted Jessie Bates. They were clearly not happy with the way they were sitting at Safety. Cutting him after June 1st has benefits and keeping him long enough for the new defensive coaches to see him in game situations under their coaching has merit. The way Michael Johnson has looked combined with his salary number...I think he's gone too. If this is the Bengals new way of going about things, I'm OK with it.

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23 minutes ago, BengalFanInTO said:

No one should have been "stunned" or "shocked" about this move. They tried to sign Kurt Coleman, looked very closely at Eric Reid and drafted Jessie Bates. They were clearly not happy with the way they were sitting at Safety. 

 

Yeah, that follows.  It's just puzzles me they were that concerned about a dude who'd played plenty well enough on a good defense, then looked at the sucking chest wound that is our offensive line and were like

 

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2 hours ago, BengalFanInTO said:

Looks like the Raiders are the first team to be rumoured to be throwing their hat in to obtain Iloka. Makes obvious sense with the numerous ties to the team.

This will really fire up the Eric Reid fans!!  

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3 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

Good catch. And my bad.

Kawann Short at $80M with almost half of it guaranteed? I've been to busy to stay on top of the NFL like the old days, but that's crazy money and I've never heard of the guy! :wow:

Yeah, the more I look at this the more I agree, we sign Geno..maybe and Dunlap is gone.  No way we get both.   Geno would destroy FA.  I can see Brown letting Dunlap walk and simply tagging Atkins.  That way we can save up for that 2046 run you are  banking the mortgage on!!

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1 hour ago, SF2 said:

Yeah, the more I look at this the more I agree, we sign Geno..maybe and Dunlap is gone.  No way we get both.   Geno would destroy FA.  I can see Brown letting Dunlap walk and simply tagging Atkins.  That way we can save up for that 2046 run you are  banking the mortgage on!!

 

Losing Geno after Whit would sting.  Other than being the best 3-tech in the NFL & hopefully the first DT since Sapp(?) into the HoF, I haven't seen anything out of our other D linemen to make me think they are more than spot starters - lulz at any of them replacing him or Dunlap next season.  I understand if they only extend one & have even questioned tying up too much $ in the DL given the "passing league" directive from the EPSNFLHQ.  It's also takes 2 to get a contract done. Not sure how much he cares about being stuck in a small market but he'll be turning 31 around the time he's due for FA & may feel he has a better shot at a ring somewhere else.   That would suck but I couldn't argue with it.

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3 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

Losing Geno after Whit would sting.  Other than being the best 3-tech in the NFL & hopefully the first DT since Sapp(?) into the HoF, I haven't seen anything out of our other D linemen to make me think they are more than spot starters - lulz at any of them replacing him or Dunlap next season.  I understand if they only extend one & have even questioned tying up too much $ in the DL given the "passing league" directive from the EPSNFLHQ.  It's also takes 2 to get a contract done. Not sure how much he cares about being stuck in a small market but he'll be turning 31 around the time he's due for FA & may feel he has a better shot at a ring somewhere else.   That would suck but I couldn't argue with it.

Man, if we let Geno walk we're stupid and fucked. He's the best player we've had since AJ Green in the last ten years, and it isn't close.

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7 hours ago, Bunghole said:

Man, if we let Geno walk we're stupid and fucked. He's the best player we've had since AJ Green in the last ten years, and it isn't close.

We will tag him.   Write it down.

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The Bengals actually have a pretty decent track record of retaining their in prime free agents. Yes, there have been a few that slipped away like Johnathan Jospeph and Eric Steinbach but typically guys that leave are offered ridiculous contracts elsewhere (Jones, Sanu, Zeitler) or are at the age they aren't willing to invest long term (Whitworth, Nelson). I think they will sign one of the two long term very soon (hopefully Atkins) and get the other guy done next offseason, even if they need to tag him. The only other (likely) key free agent they will need to deal with over the next year is Eifert and maybe Dennard.

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On 8/20/2018 at 1:18 PM, LostInDaJungle said:

I can agree with that to some extent... The safety market isn't paying $5 Mil for better guys that Illoka right now. I get that.

What I don't get is waiting until there's no use for the money to save money. Apparently, even with the weak safety market, they couldn't find a guy better to replace him in March. So we drafted Bates... Great, but we're still an injury away from starting Fej. Is the dead cap situation different if we release the guy in February? We were already $15Mil under the cap. Sure, it's expensive depth, but where else are you spending the money? And it has to be spent somewhere.

And frankly, do you really trust this team? They had Ced and Fischer in the building for a year and couldn't figure out that neither of them was 10% of the player Whitworth was. They jettisoned Reggie Nelson because Shawn Williams was "ready"... And so on.

The Brown family keeps this team 10-20M under the cap every year, and that's including their cute lil' front loaded extensions. Andy and AJ aren't getting any younger. We currently are at #7 for available cap space while being #28 in dead money. I mean, when do you push all of your chips in and try to win something? How can you be disappointed with Illoka when the team is so fond of mediocrity? If Williams or Bates suffers a week 15 injury with us looking at a wild card, would you rather have Illoka waiting in the wings or Clayton Speculum?

2015: 10M #13 in available cap space
2016: 10M #19 in available cap space
2017: 15M #11 in available cap space

2018: 20M #7 in available cap space

For a team that's trying to get over the hump, we've only dipped into the bottom half of league cap space once. And I'm well past it just being cheap, this is actively stupid. They're so busy saving money for their trophy case they forgot to actually win anything. They've convinced themselves that they're "smart cap managers" and they are totally winning on those Excel spreadsheets. As Katie has reminded us, you just don't know how hard it is to run an NFL team. 

Maybe in addition to the Lombardi, we should award the "Blackburn" once a decade for the team that has saved the most cap room and had the least dead money. Then we could finally win something.

I just think you overrate Iloka and I guess underrate Fej. To me, they aren’t really any different other than Fej is really good on ST. Iloka just didn’t make any plays in the backend that any other guy couldn’t make. 

 

They obviousny like Wilson and did t want to squeeze him off the roster. Maybe that coupled with with Phillips having to make it for return ability led to Iloka and his large salary being vulnerable. If Fej passed him, why keep him? His play during the preseason may have just confirmed to the coaches that a new system wasn’t going to help him. 

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54 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Mods can't change it, only move, lock or delete.

It seems like the mods can’t do a lot of stuff now. We need mods who can make the tough calls and do their job!

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I expect people to do their jobs correctly. They need to realize other people are counting on them to do their job quickly and without bias.  This forum has been an important forum for many Bengal fans for many years. I expect only the best work out of all the people who are working here. 

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Just now, Rick said:

I expect people to do their jobs correctly. They need to realize other people are counting on them to do their job quickly and without bias.  This forum has been an important forum for many Bengal fans for many years. I expect only the best work out of all the people who are working here. 

 

I'll let @GoBengals know that you are unhappy with our performance.  Perhaps he will decide to fire me from my 'job'.

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3 hours ago, Madieu Superstar said:

I just think you overrate Iloka and I guess underrate Fej. To me, they aren’t really any different other than Fej is really good on ST. Iloka just didn’t make any plays in the backend that any other guy couldn’t make. 

 

They obviousny like Wilson and did t want to squeeze him off the roster. Maybe that coupled with with Phillips having to make it for return ability led to Iloka and his large salary being vulnerable. If Fej passed him, why keep him? His play during the preseason may have just confirmed to the coaches that a new system wasn’t going to help him. 

 

Bottom line, Iloka is gone because he wasn't financially worth what he was making, at least to his coaches and owner.  He is still good enough to start somewhere but he will be making less money wherever he plays.  No doubt they didn't make this move without feeling some level of confidence in the young players they have.  They better hope Bates can play like Madieu did his rookie year.  The depth could be an issue and everyone but Williams lacks experience.  I just hope they use Iloka's money and can sign either Geno or Dunlap with it.

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